"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Cetra]

All marketing, including Dokkan and figures for Kale called it Super Saiyan Berserk, including the summaries for the episodes. It isn't called Legendary Super Saiyan.

Or course she is called Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin in the next episode preview. Whether you like it or not.

[HeroR]

All marketing, including Dokkan and figures for Kale called it Super Saiyan Berserk, including the summaries for the episodes. It isn't called Legendary Super Saiyan.

Or course she is called Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin in the next episode preview. Whether you like it or not.

She called 'a legendary Super Saiyan' not 'Legendary Super Saiyan'. Most of all, we don't even know if Goku says anything about legendary anything in 114. Could be a fandom nod or joke for the NEP.

[Cetra]

All marketing, including Dokkan and figures for Kale called it Super Saiyan Berserk, including the summaries for the episodes. It isn't called Legendary Super Saiyan.

Or course she is called Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin in the next episode preview. Whether you like it or not.

She called 'a legendary Super Saiyan' not 'Legendary Super Saiyan'. Most of all, we don't even know if Goku says anything about legendary anything in 114. Could be a fandom nod or joke for the NEP.

Goku is using the exact same words that are used for Broly's form. That you are using a small l instead is YOUR thing. Broly's form is also "Densetu no Suupa Saiya-jin". The claim that you are trying to make cannot be undoubtedly confirmed because it is not unequivocal because of that. And of course it is an hommage. The hommage alone though makes it very believable what is meant though and that's the thing here. And what does "Goku calls it in the next episode" even mean as in "it does not count". Saiyajin almost always make up their names for their forms.

[HeroR]

Goku is using the exact same words that are used for Broly's form. That you are using a small l instead is YOUR thing. Broly's form is also "Densetu no Suupa Saiya-jin".

It says outright in Toei's sub 'a Legendary Super Saiyan'.

In either case, Cali's unique Super Saiyan form is officially called Super Saiyan Berserk in all material, not just Heroes, which is obviously just a front for Legendary Super Saiyan since she turns into Broly when she goes into it.

[Cetra]

It says outright in Toei's sub 'a Legendary Super Saiyan'.

You don't get it. The "a" does not play a role and if you would have actually read my post you would have understood it. "legendary Super Saiyan" and "Legendary Super Saiyan" for Kale and Broly both have the same words. Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin, whether she is "a legendary", "the legendary" or "a Legendary SSJ" or "the Legendary". The words for the form are the same and thus it is absolutely fitting to say "well, she is called the same thing as Broly" with Legendary as part of the title as well as the adjective seperate from the title is not the only possibility. That's the thing. The capitalization hardly matters because the edge blurs because of the hommage and the fact that it is the same usage of words, "a" or not. And you also contradicted yourself with your whole capitalization if you read your last two posts.

[TBMx]

Goku's the one warping the laws of the fictional reality, Black Hole Stu that he is, and recovering more energy back from fighting in order to justify his continued hogging of screentime. Anyone wanna bet this gets forgotten in future arcs? That no longer does fighting cause recovery? More so then oh I don't know...REST! They'd rather take it this far then have him step off the stage and rest for a couple more episodes. It's sickening.

Oh ok, another misused of Sue. This going to be standard this week, isn't it?

"Misused of Sue" is what you're doing by arguing that he's not. He's fighting a Super Saiyan 2 successfully in BASE and recovering while doing it. See a character who wasn't a Mary Sue would rest offscreen instead of screwing the rules of the setting in order to keep hogging it.

[HeroR]

"Misused of Sue" is what you're doing by arguing that he's not. He's fighting a Super Saiyan 2 successfully in BASE and recovering while doing it. See a character who wasn't a Mary Sue would rest offscreen instead of screwing the rules of the setting in order to keep hogging it.

Because people who misused literature terms to make their complaint sound more valid is a pet peeve of mines. Goku doesn't fit the definition of a Black Hole Sue, plain and simple. Also, it's actually a bad thing to sit down and rest after a big work out. It's best to keep moving and slow your pace.

Learn the definition of Mary Sue and Black Hole Sue before you throw the word around.

[Alruneia]

Wow, this looks painful... I mean who the f*** punches someone in mouth?

The way I see it, you can either fight clean or fight dirty, and Caulifla is easily a dirty fighter. She's a gang leader, for goodness' sake. "Proper" martial arts fighting is not the first thing that comes to mind.

Not seeing how this picture shows Cali as a dirty fighter. I took martial art classes for years and punching in the mouth isn’t dirty even in tourument rules. That’s why you wear mouth guards.

You've been busy defending Caulifla lately, haven't you? In any case, the essence of my post was actually very close to what Whis said about Caulifla's fighting style in early episode 113 (before she improved). That was what I was trying to get at, though I know a blow to the mouth isn't the best example.

[HeroR]

You've been busy defending Caulifla lately, haven't you? In any case, the essence of my post was actually very close to what Whis said about Caulifla's fighting style in early episode 113 (before she improved). That was what I was trying to get at, though I know a blow to the mouth isn't the best example.

Most of the "defending Caulifla" has mostly been people misusing Mary Sue, people being trigged by her getting certain transformations, and over-exaggerating of her negative traits. If this was any other character, I would make the same complaints. It also doesn't help that it seems Cali's mere existence just triggers people. Like in this episode, she didn't get Super Saiyan 3, got clown by base form Goku and called a street thug until she adaptive, showed real concern for her universe which is why she wanted Super Saiyan 3, and treated Goku with respect. Yet, people still managed to complain about her, mostly because she could still get Super Saiyan 3 and Goku daring to praise her. At this point, it comes off as petty.

Also, the blow to the mouth was before the episode aired and I was confused why punching in the mouth was considered dirty since in a real world tournament, punching in the vital areas (groin, kidney, liver) is the only real 'dirty' move you can pull. Which Cali kind of did since it looked like Cali decked Goku in the kidney in one shot.

It says outright in Toei's sub 'a Legendary Super Saiyan'.

You don't get it. The "a" does not play a role and if you would have actually read my post you would have understood it. "legendary Super Saiyan" and "Legendary Super Saiyan" for Kale and Broly both have the same words. Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin, whether she is "a legendary", "the legendary" or "a Legendary SSJ" or "the Legendary". The words for the form are the same and thus it is absolutely fitting to say "well, she is called the same thing as Broly" with Legendary as part of the title as well as the adjective seperate from the title is not the only possibility. That's the thing. The capitalization hardly matters because the edge blurs because of the hommage and the fact that it is the same usage of words, "a" or not. And you also contradicted yourself with your whole capitalization if you read your last two posts.

The capitalization was a mistake on my part. But like I said, the NEP is probably a nod to Broly, but not a indication of her form's name or what it is. Especially when U6 didn't have a legend about a Super Saiyan.

[JazzMazz]

You've been busy defending Caulifla lately, haven't you? In any case, the essence of my post was actually very close to what Whis said about Caulifla's fighting style in early episode 113 (before she improved). That was what I was trying to get at, though I know a blow to the mouth isn't the best example.

Most of the "defending Caulifla" has mostly been people misusing Mary Sue, people being trigged by her getting certain transformations, and over-exaggerating of her negative traits. If this was any other character, I would make the same complaints. It also doesn't help that it seems Cali's mere existence just triggers people. Like in this episode, she didn't get Super Saiyan 3, got clown by base form Goku and called a street thug until she adaptive, showed real concern for her universe which is why she wanted Super Saiyan 3, and treated Goku with respect. Yet, people still managed to complain about her, mostly because she could still get Super Saiyan 3 and Goku daring to praise her. At this point, it comes off as petty.

Also, the blow to the mouth was before the episode aired and I was confused why punching in the mouth was considered dirty since in a real world tournament, punching in the vital areas (groin, kidney, liver) is the only real 'dirty' move you can pull. Which Cali kind of did since it looked like Cali decked Goku in the kidney in one shot.

I really don't get the hate for Caulifla for this episode.

Though I initally found her obnoxious when she was originally introduced and didn't like her early showings in the tournament of power. I think I started to be completely fine with her when she started to mellow out and demonstrate more positive character traits starting at episode 104. All her appearances since then have been completely fine and she really hasn't been anywhere near as obnoxious as she used to be when she was first introduced. This episode really continued that trend of having her act more mellowed out while also having allowing her to keep her spunk.

I still don't like Kale though.

[TheMikado]

Look like Kale is officially called Legendary Super Saiyan... She now has the same title as Broly so I guess it’s official now.

[HeroR]

I really don't get the hate for Caulifla for this episode.

Though I initally found her obnoxious when she was originally introduced and didn't like her early showings in the tournament of power. I think I started to be completely fine with her when she started to mellow out and demonstrate more positive character traits starting at episode 104. All her appearances since then have been completely fine and she really hasn't been anywhere near as obnoxious as she used to be when she was first introduced. This episode really continued that trend of having her act more mellowed out while also having allowing her to keep her spunk.

I still don't like Kale though.

I liked Cali in 100 and 101, especially with her using her body to shield Kale. I only found her traits annoying a few times.

I liked Kale since 101 when she got her controlled form and she started to act more confident, like following Hit's order to fight for U6.

[JazzMazz]

I really don't get the hate for Caulifla for this episode.

Though I initally found her obnoxious when she was originally introduced and didn't like her early showings in the tournament of power. I think I started to be completely fine with her when she started to mellow out and demonstrate more positive character traits starting at episode 104. All her appearances since then have been completely fine and she really hasn't been anywhere near as obnoxious as she used to be when she was first introduced. This episode really continued that trend of having her act more mellowed out while also having allowing her to keep her spunk.

I still don't like Kale though.

I liked Cali in 100 and 101, especially with her using her body to shield Kale. I only found her traits annoying a few times.

I liked Kale since 101 when she got her controlled form and she started to act more confident, like following Hit's order to fight for U6.

I still don't like Kale because, to me at least, she still hasn't come into her own and the fact she is a giant Broly doesn't really appeal to me.

Also I'm not a big fan of her being the passive un-assertive sterotype when we already got that from universe 6 in Cabba.

Of course my opinion of her can change, but right now she just doesn't have enough going for her as character in my eyes.

This just kind of makes me in-different to her. Espicially since her universe has loads of stronger characters(I don't mean in phyiscal sense, just to clarify).

[Sandubadear]

Super Saiyan Blue was also called "Legendary Super Saiyan" once, this term gets thrown around a lot for it to mean anything.

Maybe after Kale manages to fully control her berserker form, it then becomes the same "Legendary Super Saiyan" form that Broly has.

[HeroR]

I still don't like Kale because, to me at least, she still hasn't come into her own and the fact she is a giant Broly doesn't really appeal to me.

Also I'm not a big fan of her being the passive un-assertive sterotype when we already got that from universe 6 in Cabba.

Of course my opinion of her can change, but right now she just doesn't have enough going for her as character in my eyes.

This just kind of makes me in-different to her. Espicially since her universe has loads of stronger characters(I don't mean in phyiscal sense, just to clarify).

But outside of Berserk, she doesn't act like Broly. I do agree that they're are 'stronger' characters in U6, but I actually prefer Kale over Cabba. For some reason Cabba just never interested me and I only found him cool in 100 and 111.

[Totamo]

You've been busy defending Caulifla lately, haven't you? In any case, the essence of my post was actually very close to what Whis said about Caulifla's fighting style in early episode 113 (before she improved). That was what I was trying to get at, though I know a blow to the mouth isn't the best example.

Most of the "defending Caulifla" has mostly been people misusing Mary Sue, people being trigged by her getting certain transformations, and over-exaggerating of her negative traits. If this was any other character, I would make the same complaints. It also doesn't help that it seems Cali's mere existence just triggers people. Like in this episode, she didn't get Super Saiyan 3, got clown by base form Goku and called a street thug until she adaptive, showed real concern for her universe which is why she wanted Super Saiyan 3, and treated Goku with respect. Yet, people still managed to complain about her, mostly because she could still get Super Saiyan 3 and Goku daring to praise her. At this point, it comes off as petty.

Also, the blow to the mouth was before the episode aired and I was confused why punching in the mouth was considered dirty since in a real world tournament, punching in the vital areas (groin, kidney, liver) is the only real 'dirty' move you can pull. Which Cali kind of did since it looked like Cali decked Goku in the kidney in one shot.

You don't get it. The "a" does not play a role and if you would have actually read my post you would have understood it. "legendary Super Saiyan" and "Legendary Super Saiyan" for Kale and Broly both have the same words. Densetsu no Suupa Saiyajin, whether she is "a legendary", "the legendary" or "a Legendary SSJ" or "the Legendary". The words for the form are the same and thus it is absolutely fitting to say "well, she is called the same thing as Broly" with Legendary as part of the title as well as the adjective seperate from the title is not the only possibility. That's the thing. The capitalization hardly matters because the edge blurs because of the hommage and the fact that it is the same usage of words, "a" or not. And you also contradicted yourself with your whole capitalization if you read your last two posts.

The capitalization was a mistake on my part. But like I said, the NEP is probably a nod to Broly, but not a indication of her form's name or what it is. Especially when U6 didn't have a legend about a Super Saiyan.

i don't see the point to the defending, man. people will still hate these characters and whether you find it dumb or not, its not going away.


plus that goku line saying she might go beyond 3 even if she won't raises concern.

[HeroR]

i don't see the point to the defending, man. people will still hate these characters and whether you find it dumb or not, its not going away.


plus that goku line saying she might go beyond 3 even if she won't raises concern.

I do agree, but a major pet peeve of mines is the abused to literature words. So when I see Mary Sue being abused, I feel the need to correct it. That and getting salty about things that could happened is old. Like people were betting their house that Cali would get Super Saiyan 3 this episode.

Also, Goku saying that Cali could go beyond Super Saiyan 3 is really no different than Vegeta telling Cabba back in the Champa Saga that he could get Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[JazzMazz]

I still don't like Kale because, to me at least, she still hasn't come into her own and the fact she is a giant Broly doesn't really appeal to me.

Also I'm not a big fan of her being the passive un-assertive sterotype when we already got that from universe 6 in Cabba.

Of course my opinion of her can change, but right now she just doesn't have enough going for her as character in my eyes.

This just kind of makes me in-different to her. Espicially since her universe has loads of stronger characters(I don't mean in phyiscal sense, just to clarify).

But outside of Berserk, she doesn't act like Broly. I do agree that they're are 'stronger' characters in U6, but I actually prefer Kale over Cabba. For some reason Cabba just never interested me and I only found him cool in 100 and 111.

Thats the thing, Cabba had at least one good defining episode thus far, Kale hasn't really had any good episodes about her character alone, since Caulifla pretty much always steals the show because she has the dominant personality and comes out on top even in episode about Kale.

I'm saying even though there have a been clear attempts to characterize her, the episode that we've gotten for her thus far really didn't focus on her enough to make her endearing(namely because Caulifla has such a strong presence). Not to mention she is a character that doesn't really have all that much going for her besides the fact she is basically Broly.

I think its also worth noting that I like how this tournament has at least made attempts at characterising the universe 6 fighters(some of them at least). Hit, the solitary assassin, learned to rely on others as his strength isn't always going to be enough. Cabba learned to carry himself with pride no matter how severe the situation instead of having a defeatist attitude. Caulifla mellowed out and became more humble as more and more pressure was placed upon her to get stronger and Kale broke overcame her weaker nature to help her mentor. Though not all the characterization has been well executed, I think its at least cool to know they tried doing something with these characters, its something that I appreciate greatly, even if it is fairly shallow.

[BlueBasilisk]

Look like Kale is officially called Legendary Super Saiyan... She now has the same title as Broly so I guess it’s official now.

I mean, the form has Broly's characteristic look, moves, and green ki and they're none too subtle with the references so I'm perplexed that people are surprised or bothered that it's the same form.

[HeroR]

Thats the thing, Cabba had at least one good defining episode thus far, Kale hasn't really had any good episodes about her character alone, since Caulifla pretty much always steals the show because she has the dominant personality and comes out on top even in episode about Kale.

I'm saying even though there have a been clear attempts to characterize her, the episode that we've gotten for her thus far really didn't focus on her enough to make her endearing(namely because Caulifla has such a strong presence). Not to mention she is a character that doesn't really have all that much going for her besides the fact she is basically Broly.

I think its also worth noting that I like how this tournament has at least made attempts at characterising the universe 6 fighters(some of them at least). Hit, the solitary assassin, learned to rely on others as his strength isn't always going to be enough. Cabba learned to carry himself with pride no matter how severe the situation instead of having a defeatist attitude. Caulifla mellowed out and became more humble as more and more pressure was placed upon her to get stronger and Kale broke overcame her weaker nature to help her mentor. Though not all the characterization has been well executed, I think its at least cool to know they tried doing something with these characters, its something that I appreciate greatly, even if it is fairly shallow.

I do agree. Kale kind of have the Goten problem where he comes off as the other half of Trunks instead of his own character. I think I just like Kale because she started as a Broly clone, but then got development that Broly never got in his twenty plus years of existence. So I guess, low standards on my part, lol.

She did get development in that she can watched Cali fight Goku and not turned into a jealous girl friend. She was happy to see her sis having fun and was all but jumping for joy that she could fight by Cali's side. I'm a sucker, but I just found that entire scene cute. She was also willing to help Hit in 111 and followed Hit's final orders without any hesitation. A big change from before.

And, most of the character in Dragon Ball are fairly shallow when they break them down.