Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, I read the Chapter 29 of Dragon Ball Super manga and I wanted to leave here my impressions concerning strength matters.

It seems there is a huge gap between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God, so much that the level of the fight from SSG and on is close to God of Destruction’s, as admitted by one of them.

Initially, I thought Top was stronger than Goku, but this is a example of Goku letting his guard down in a vital moment. Even Top admitted he might have not win if not for that quick counter-attack.

Rumshi’s roar can paralyze even the Gods of Destruction and given that the Kaioshins fainted and Goku didn’t must mean Goku overall is much closer to God of Destruction level than to Kaioshin’s. The angels though didn’t even feel a thing, they must be really strong.

The anime and the manga really aren't that different in that regard, as the general placement of things like forms to each other and where characters stand in comparison are pretty consistent.

All of the Saiyans' forms are in increasing power in terms of order, Goku is much stronger than he ever has been even without Super Saiyan, etc.

It's really the finer details within the generalities that we get into heated disagreement and debate.

[Bullza]

I originally thought Toppo was equal to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken and that the manga may have also suggested that from the image of him one shitting Goku.

But now that the chapter was translated and he admitted he could have lost as well as him about to fight Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta then it would seem to be that Toppo is in actuality Super Saiyan Blue level.

Not as strong as Merged Zamasu after all.

[ZombieVito]

I originally thought Toppo was equal to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken and that the manga may have also suggested that from the image of him one shitting Goku.

But now that the chapter was translated and he admitted he could have lost as well as him about to fight Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta then it would seem to be that Toppo is in actuality Super Saiyan Blue level.

Not as strong as Merged Zamasu after all.

But even if he was on par with Kaioken Goku he would still be weaker than Merged Zamasu.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

I originally thought Toppo was equal to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken and that the manga may have also suggested that from the image of him one shitting Goku.

But now that the chapter was translated and he admitted he could have lost as well as him about to fight Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta then it would seem to be that Toppo is in actuality Super Saiyan Blue level.

Not as strong as Merged Zamasu after all.

Can't believe Toppo one shit Goku. Like, he's a big guy, but Goku seems like he would put up a fight down the line. I'm predicting that Toppo is weaker than Merged Zamasu but stronger than Blue in the anime and a tiny bit weaker than Merged Zamasu but stronger than tired Blue in the manga.

[Hugo Boss]

Talking about Zamasu. Herms posted on Twitter some highlights from Toriyama and Toyotaro’s interview and it seems this villain wasn’t supposed to be far stronger than Goku and Vegeta, which would explain why Toriyama didn’t intend to merge them. I assume completed Super Saiyan Blue wasn’t planned at all and it was some of Toyotaro’s additions as well.

[Bullza]

But even if he was on par with Kaioken Goku he would still be weaker than Merged Zamasu.

Well I meant in the Halo form, not the Half Corrupted form.

[ZombieVito]

But even if he was on par with Kaioken Goku he would still be weaker than Merged Zamasu.

Well I meant in the Halo form, not the Half Corrupted form.

I still believe the Halo form is way superior to Kaioken Goku.

Unless we say Goku used a Kaioken times 10 to kick him.

[brett wheeler]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

[namekiansaiyan]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

She might be stronger but Goku who is the better fighter will win the fight overall.

[brett wheeler]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

She might be stronger but Goku who is the better fighter will win the fight overall.

I know he'll win, but still the fuck, but it makes me wonder they announced on heroes I think that goku will go ultra instincts agian soon so maby he does against kafla and kicks her ass, still bs

[namekiansaiyan]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

She might be stronger but Goku who is the better fighter will win the fight overall.

I know he'll win, but still the fuck, but it makes me wonder they announced on heroes I think that goku will go ultra instincts agian soon so maby he does against kafla and kicks her ass, still bs

I think that is the whole point of the fight as he probably needs a very powerful attack like last time to activate it and Kafla might have the power needed.

[AvatarReiko]

How would guys handle the Goku vs Kafla fight and the power difference between them?

If it were me, I'd have base Kalfa murk SSJ2 Goku. Goku then goes blue and overpower her again. Kalfa goes SS2 in response and the two fight evenly. She then goes Berserker or SSJ3(we all know it's going to happen) and overwhelms Goku. Goku, on the brink, activates SSJBKKx10 and defeats her. That or her fusion runs out

So KKx10 Goku>>>SS3 Kafla or Berserker Kafla>>>SSJB Goku=>SSJ2 Kafla>>>Base Kalfa>>>SSJ2 Goku

[BlueBasilisk]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

We still don't know what types of transformations she has at her disposal. If she can use Kale's berserker power that's not wholly surprising.

[ssbgoku]

How would guys handle the Goku vs Kafla fight and the power difference between them?

If it were me, I'd have base Kalfa murk SSJ2 Goku. Goku then goes blue and overpower her again. Kalfa goes SS2 in response and the two fight evenly. She then goes Berserker or SSJ3(we all know it's going to happen) and overwhelms Goku. Goku, on the brink, activates SSJBKKx10 and defeats her. That or her fusion runs out

So KKx10 Goku>>>SS3 Kafla or Berserker Kafla>>>SSJB Goku=>SSJ2 Kafla>>>Base Kalfa>>>SSJ2 Goku

Assuming that potara is 400x one person in fusion and that base goku/vegeta is 4 times stronger then base caufila/kale.

I would have: kkx10 ssb goku >= berserker Kafla > ssb goku >= ss3 Kafla > ss2 Kafla ~ ssg goku >= ss Kafla >>> ss3 goku > base Kafla ~ ss2 goku.

While base vegetto(before goku ui) would be ss3 goku.
Anyway it will be interesting as we can scale vegitto(bwfore and after goku ui) to jiren. I have current ssb vegito close to jiren at least

[SansrivaaL]

The funny thing about this is, Goku in the prev said Kale is now able to control her berserk powers, and we see Goku still giving them those hands in SSJ2, chances are he was really holding back a ton against Berserk Kale on ep 100, I kept saying this but his line about only increasing his power a little was important yet people throw that away like it was nothing.

[AvatarReiko]

The funny thing about this is, Goku in the prev said Kale is now able to control her berserk powers, and we see Goku still giving them those hands in SSJ2, chances are he was really holding back a ton against Berserk Kale on ep 100, I kept saying this but his line about only increasing his power a little was important yet people throw that away like it was nothing.

Or it's simply another one of toei's inconsistencies. Personally, I'd rather go with that over the usual "Goku was holding back" cop out. Nothing in that previous encounter, suggested to me, that Goku was holding back a ton of power. We actually see him visibly struggling and being pressured and Kale managed to walk through his strongest attack. I did not mind at first as it's not character for Goku to go all out at the start but but it's become repetitive at this point and I am sick to death of the "Goku is holding back" excuses. Toei think they cover up their blatanty sloppy writing and inconsistencies every time with it

I know I am probably going to get ripped to shreds here for dare speaking out against Toei's writing but whatever. It'd be a very boring world if every person shared the same opinion and views.

[BlueBasilisk]

Or it's simply another one of toei's inconsistencies. Personally, I'd rather go with that over the usual "Goku was holding back" cop out. Nothing in that previous encounter, suggested to me, that Goku was holding back a ton of power. We actually see him visibly struggling and being pressured and Kale managed to walk through his strongest attack. I did not mind at first as it's not character for Goku to go all out at the start but but it's become repetitive at this point and I am sick to death of the "Goku is holding back" excuses. Toei think they cover up their blatanty sloppy writing and inconsistencies every time with it

I know I am probably going to get ripped to shreds here for dare speaking out against Toei's writing but whatever. It'd be a very boring world if every person shared the same opinion and views.

The only thing Goku does in the NEP is push her back with a ki blast that inflicts no visible damage. That's not Kale's hulking berserk form anyway so we don't have the full context for what's going on there.

[Bullza]

Well we have a really good opportunity here to find how strong exactly fusion is supposed to be in comparison to the other forms.

Base Kale was pretty weak though so that might bring the fusion down some. Perhaps Super Saiyan 2 Karla or Legendary Super Saiyan Kafka will be strong enough to give Super Saiyan Blue Goku a run for his money.

We used to say that a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito was weaker than Super Saiyan God so we'll see.

[ZombieVito]

We have the perfect opportunity to know what the multipliers for SSG and SSB are.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So kafla stronger than ssb goku, so that's a thing.

It was not stated in the synopsis that Goku SSB was defeated by Kafla. It was a question (just like what Shin did when he said that Vegetto's power might have surpassed that of Beerus)