"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[ArchedThunder]

So...when can we expect the next episode of Super to come out?

The same time they always do...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

[namekiansaiyan]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

Have you ever thought that fans don't want to see their favourite characters change? How would you like it if Goku just stopped wanting to train or not wanting to fight strong people.

I don't like it when people say characters need to constantly have 'character development' as half the time it makes the character worse.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

Have you ever thought that fans don't want to see their favourite characters change? How would you like it if Goku just stopped wanting to train or not wanting to fight strong people.

I don't like it when people say characters need to constantly have 'character development' as half the time it makes the character worse.

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

[namekiansaiyan]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

Have you ever thought that fans don't want to see their favourite characters change? How would you like it if Goku just stopped wanting to train or not wanting to fight strong people.

I don't like it when people say characters need to constantly have 'character development' as half the time it makes the character worse.

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

Ask Vegeta fans. All I am saying is that he got liked by all his fans because he is a stubborn arsehole who wants to be better than Goku so he shouldn't change that much from this. He is also really the only character who is this stubborn so it makes him unique. Just remember that you will not like every character as everyone will find different personalities traits appealing.

The best example is Frieza as fans do not want him to change at all and if Toriyama changed him then all his fans will be going crazy.

[Michsi]

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

For the sake of the holy shonen rivalry trope would be my guess. It's pretty much a proven fact that a character turned good is at their most interesting for a lot of fans when they're still difficult and a little hostile. It's this friction that makes them appealing and you' could argue Tien and Piccolo became less compelling once they became more harmonious with the main cast, so they don't want to see this happen with Vegeta as well. Also people often equate character development with no longer being a badass.

But to be fair, Toriyama sorta did this as well with the extended version of the last chapter that came with the reprint of the manga a few years ago. It had the story practically end with Vegeta reaffirming his desire to defeat Goku in a pretty angry manner. Considering how he was depicted in the rest of the chapter, as in chill, laid back and amused at Goku leaving with Uub, it really felt off.

[ShinTenshin]

So the Weaker Merged Zamasu seen in the Manga is the result of Toriyama work.
And the powerful SSBLUE is still a Toriyama thing when the SSBLUE of animé is boring and appear not strong at all.
Seems Trunks is only a support Character in the script, Toyotaro does a great job when Toei give him everything (Mafuba, Genkidama and God Power far stronger than Blue).
Seems Toriyama approved Vegeta SSGOD, that's great !
What is really good with the Manga Version is that the product is a result of a combined work between Toriyama and Toyotaro.
When Toei most likely work alone and contradict everytime the script.

Now we know the animé of DBSUPER is nothing but filler, time for Toei to retire.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So the Weaker Merged Zamasu seen in the Manga is the result of Toriyama work.
And the powerful SSBLUE is still a Toriyama thing when the SSBLUE of animé is boring and appear not strong at all.
Seems Trunks is only a support Character in the script, Toyotaro does a great job when Toei give him everything (Mafuba, Genkidama and God Power far stronger than Blue).
Seems Toriyama approved Vegeta SSGOD, that's great !
What is really good with the Manga Version is that the product is a result of a combined work between Toriyama and Toyotaro.
When Toei most likely work alone and contradict everytime the script.

Now we know the animé of DBSUPER is nothing but filler, time for Toei to retire.

There is no script or source material, how many times. Toriyama said it himself he expects them to take different paths from the outline, because that is how it was always meant to be, the outline is simply to guide the direction of the story. THE OUTLINE DOES NOT MATTER.

Anime is filler? What? Hate to break it to you but the anime is the main product here not the Manga. No anime no Manga spin off.

Also Toyo made the mastered SSGSS stuff up.

[Kinokima]

Have you ever thought that fans don't want to see their favourite characters change? How would you like it if Goku just stopped wanting to train or not wanting to fight strong people.

I don't like it when people say characters need to constantly have 'character development' as half the time it makes the character worse.

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

Ask Vegeta fans. All I am saying is that he got liked by all his fans because he is a stubborn arsehole who wants to be better than Goku so he shouldn't change that much from this. He is also really the only character who is this stubborn so it makes him unique. Just remember that you will not like every character as everyone will find different personalities traits appealing.

The best example is Frieza as fans do not want him to change at all and if Toriyama changed him then all his fans will be going crazy.

Um hello Vegeta fan here and I love the development Vegeta went through the entire series of DBZ. And no I would not want him to go back to the way he was before.

Vegeta being a bit arrogant even a bit of a jerk at times is his personality quirk. It doesn’t mean he is going back to how he was in the Cell arc where he didn’t care about anyone besides himself & his pride.

Vegeta in Super cares about his family, the Earth, and now the Saiyans of U6 so no he is not the same at all. And nor would I want him to be. When Vegeta acts like he doesn’t care he is being his typical tsundere self but it is obvious to everyone who knows him that he does.

I don’t really know what this is about keeping Vegeta bad ass. That’s certainly not why I am a fan. I never thought Vegeta was bad ass lol.


Edit: Although from what I’ve seen of anime & manga (I admit I haven’t read a lot of it just various scenes on tumblr) I don’t see Cell Vegeta in either. I saw one scene where Vegeta felt bad that Bulma was crying. No way Vegeta in the Cell arc would be affected like that. lol

And Vegeta not wanting to leave Bulma to train was in both anime & manga. Not in a million years would Cell Vegeta do that.

The anime doesn’t always get Vegeta perfect and I am sure either does the manga. But this has to be true for every character.

[MisteryOne]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

Can't say I agree with the last part. Toshio is a DB fan, does that mean he should have never become a DBS writer? Because I find him to be one of the few decent ones.

[namekiansaiyan]

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

Ask Vegeta fans. All I am saying is that he got liked by all his fans because he is a stubborn arsehole who wants to be better than Goku so he shouldn't change that much from this. He is also really the only character who is this stubborn so it makes him unique. Just remember that you will not like every character as everyone will find different personalities traits appealing.

The best example is Frieza as fans do not want him to change at all and if Toriyama changed him then all his fans will be going crazy.

Um hello Vegeta fan here and I love the development Vegeta went through the entire series of DBZ. And no I would not want him to go back to the way he was before.

Vegeta being a bit arrogant even a bit of a jerk at times is his personality quirk. It doesn’t mean he is going back to how he was in the Cell arc where he didn’t care about anyone besides himself & his pride.

Vegeta in Super cares about his family, the Earth, and now the Saiyans of U6 so no he is not the same at all. And nor would I want him to be. When Vegeta acts like he doesn’t care he is being his typical tsundere self but it is obvious to everyone who knows him that he does.

I don’t really know what this is about keeping Vegeta bad ass. That’s certainly not why I am a fan. I never thought Vegeta was bad ass lol.


Edit: Although from what I’ve seen of anime & manga (I admit I haven’t read a lot of it just various scenes on tumblr) I don’t see Cell Vegeta in either. I saw one scene where Vegeta felt bad that Bulma was crying. No way Vegeta in the Cell arc would be affected like that. lol

And Vegeta not wanting to leave Bulma to train was in both anime & manga. Not in a million years would Cell Vegeta do that.

The anime doesn’t always get Vegeta perfect and I am sure either does the manga. But this has to be true for every character.

What I get from your posts is that you like the reationships of characters more than anything else whereas I think the average Dragon Ball fan just wants Vegeta to be an arsehole all the time.

Isn't Vegeta's Saiyan pride and saving the Universe 6 Saiyans basically all connected to the same thing.

[Kinokima]

Ask Vegeta fans. All I am saying is that he got liked by all his fans because he is a stubborn arsehole who wants to be better than Goku so he shouldn't change that much from this. He is also really the only character who is this stubborn so it makes him unique. Just remember that you will not like every character as everyone will find different personalities traits appealing.

The best example is Frieza as fans do not want him to change at all and if Toriyama changed him then all his fans will be going crazy.

Um hello Vegeta fan here and I love the development Vegeta went through the entire series of DBZ. And no I would not want him to go back to the way he was before.

Vegeta being a bit arrogant even a bit of a jerk at times is his personality quirk. It doesn’t mean he is going back to how he was in the Cell arc where he didn’t care about anyone besides himself & his pride.

Vegeta in Super cares about his family, the Earth, and now the Saiyans of U6 so no he is not the same at all. And nor would I want him to be. When Vegeta acts like he doesn’t care he is being his typical tsundere self but it is obvious to everyone who knows him that he does.

I don’t really know what this is about keeping Vegeta bad ass. That’s certainly not why I am a fan. I never thought Vegeta was bad ass lol.


Edit: Although from what I’ve seen of anime & manga (I admit I haven’t read a lot of it just various scenes on tumblr) I don’t see Cell Vegeta in either. I saw one scene where Vegeta felt bad that Bulma was crying. No way Vegeta in the Cell arc would be affected like that. lol

And Vegeta not wanting to leave Bulma to train was in both anime & manga. Not in a million years would Cell Vegeta do that.

The anime doesn’t always get Vegeta perfect and I am sure either does the manga. But this has to be true for every character.

What I get from your posts is that you like the reationships of characters more than anything else whereas I think the average Dragon Ball fan just wants Vegeta to be an arsehole all the time.

Isn't Vegeta's Saiyan pride and saving the Universe 6 Saiyans basically all connected to the same thing.

I am pretty sure you don’t know what the average DB fan thinks at all. Is there even an average DB fan? Vegeta may be popular for a lot of reasons but certainly his character development is one of them.

Vegeta caring about others even other Saiyans is definitely nothing like the old Vegeta. And I am pretty sure when Vegeta says Saiyan pride he means in not running away from a fight and fighting to your fullest. But I suppose Vegeta’s pride could mean different things at different times depending on who is writing for him.

[BlueBasilisk]

Vegeta is an arrogant ass normally. That's probably not going to ever change, but he's a far cry from his Cell Saga incarnation. That Vegeta was a murderous prick who didn't give a damn about Bulma or either of his sons until Cell killed him. Accepting that Goku is better than him doesn't mean Vegeta is going to stop chasing Goku or trying to beat him. It just took the hatred out of their relationship.

[The gr]

So Toyo continues to have Vegeta like he's in the Cell arc aka boring and stubborn in his Manga because it shows his appeal and makes it more exciting? Pfft. Mate it's the opposite it makes him boring and tiring.

This is why fans shouldn't become professionals.

He was alway like this since in BOG ,for the last time he is not like cell saga vegeta,would a cell saga vegeta give bulma a hug like in chapter 26 or train another saiyan,cabba,he is not a prick like you think,ep 112 perfectly show how much vegeta evolved as a character even if he denied the genkidama in 109,please read the manga before making assumption like this.

[Kinokima]

I think I should just come up with a stock reply every time someone mentions Vegeta become like his Cell Saga self. I will just copy and paste. Will save me a lot of time.

Anyways Baggie Saiyan at least should know I don't like that comparison.

[Totamo]

I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.

I don't think this arc was suppose to be about Trunks but about zamasu, you know like the android saga wasn't about trunks but the androids.


There was obviously a disconnect here.

[ArchedThunder]

I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.

I don't think this arc was suppose to be about Trunks but about zamasu, you know like the android saga wasn't about trunks but the androids.


There was obviously a disconnect here.

It's literally called the Future Trunks arc.

[Lord Beerus]

I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.

I don't think this arc was suppose to be about Trunks but about zamasu, you know like the android saga wasn't about trunks but the androids.


There was obviously a disconnect here.

It's literally called the Future Trunks arc.

Yeah, I gotta side with ArchedThunder on this one. Don't call it the "Future Trunks" arc if said character in the name of the arc is not the central focus. It's just really misleading. I've talked about in length why I was disappointed with how Future Trunks was handled in the manga in comparison to how he was treated in the anime in the past:
[spoiler]It's more than just giving Future Trunks the "main kill". It's how well you develop the story leading up to it from Future Trunks' perceptive and how much you're personally invested in his outcome based on what you know about what Future Trunks has experience and how you witnessed it.

The anime gave me more incentives to get personally invested into and make me attached to Future Trunks story. Whether it be Haru, Maki, Earth's Resistance or Future Yajirobe, the anime gave me a reason to care more what occurs in Future Trunks world because he still had something to fight for and is seen as a beacon of hope that those who still remain on Earth look up to. It makes the Genki Dama Sword, while nonsensical in practice, work extremely well in a thematic and conceptual sense because, from the beginning of the arc to the end of the arc, Future Trunks was fighting valiantly for what remained of humanity in his world, and every step of the way, the humans that remained on Earth supported him every time things looked grim and he was looked up as the hope bringer for the world. So I find the idea of the humans that were left urging Future Trunks on so much that they innately gave him their power to slain an extreme misanthrope like Merged Zamasu very satisfying and cathartic.

The manga also pulled the major narrative fumble of skipping over Future Bulma's death. And robbed the story of one the most emotional moments of the entire arc. I don't understand why would Toyotaro skim over such a detail like that. It goes back to my point of giving me something to personally feel invested into with the story. The anime played up the nature of her death so well that Future Trunks' PTSD influenced nightmares and hallucinations in the anime feel all the more dramatic and genuine because you personally witnessed the horrific nature of Future Bulma's demise as he did and you can sympathize with him on personal level as you can understand much more the mental trauma he is going through with the circumstances he has had to deal with. These are all small things but it makes such a huge different to how much you attach yourself to his character and care more for his journey beyond a surface level.

I know people will bemoan the anime for its shortcomings with how it handles the strength of Future Trunks in the arc. And I can certainly understand those complaints very much so. But having power consistency is one thing, and making me care about the fate of the characters and being personally invested in them is another. And I personally cared much more Future Trunks' story in the anime than I did in the manga. There was more to cling on to in the anime that when it snatched away from you, in the fashion that it was in Episode 67, it resonated with you in some way very strongly. There just wasn't enough for me to personally invest into the manga's interpretation of the the events of the Future Trunks' story in his own arc.

The manga made him feel like a supporting character who ultimately didn't feel needed in the plot 80% of the time. And despite the nature of Merged Zamasu's defeat and his unexplained new SSJ form, Future Trunks felt like the central focus of his arc in the anime for better or for worse and made me care so much more for what he lost or gained.[/spoiler]

[RedHeat]

I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.

I don't think this arc was suppose to be about Trunks but about zamasu, you know like the android saga wasn't about trunks but the androids.


There was obviously a disconnect here.

It's literally called the Future Trunks arc.

I'm howling.

[HeroR]

I don't think this arc was suppose to be about Trunks but about zamasu, you know like the android saga wasn't about trunks but the androids.


There was obviously a disconnect here.

It's literally called the Future Trunks arc.

Yeah, I gotta side with ArchedThunder on this one. Don't call it the "Future Trunks" arc if said character in the name of the arc is not the central focus. It's just really misleading. I've talked about in length why I was disappointed with how Future Trunks was handled in the manga in comparison to how he was treated in the anime in the past:
[spoiler]It's more than just giving Future Trunks the "main kill". It's how well you develop the story leading up to it from Future Trunks' perceptive and how much you're personally invested in his outcome based on what you know about what Future Trunks has experience and how you witnessed it.

The anime gave me more incentives to get personally invested into and make me attached to Future Trunks story. Whether it be Haru, Maki, Earth's Resistance or Future Yajirobe, the anime gave me a reason to care more what occurs in Future Trunks world because he still had something to fight for and is seen as a beacon of hope that those who still remain on Earth look up to. It makes the Genki Dama Sword, while nonsensical in practice, work extremely well in a thematic and conceptual sense because, from the beginning of the arc to the end of the arc, Future Trunks was fighting valiantly for what remained of humanity in his world, and every step of the way, the humans that remained on Earth supported him every time things looked grim and he was looked up as the hope bringer for the world. So I find the idea of the humans that were left urging Future Trunks on so much that they innately gave him their power to slain an extreme misanthrope like Merged Zamasu very satisfying and cathartic.

The manga also pulled the major narrative fumble of skipping over Future Bulma's death. And robbed the story of one the most emotional moments of the entire arc. I don't understand why would Toyotaro skim over such a detail like that. It goes back to my point of giving me something to personally feel invested into with the story. The anime played up the nature of her death so well that Future Trunks' PTSD influenced nightmares and hallucinations in the anime feel all the more dramatic and genuine because you personally witnessed the horrific nature of Future Bulma's demise as he did and you can sympathize with him on personal level as you can understand much more the mental trauma he is going through with the circumstances he has had to deal with. These are all small things but it makes such a huge different to how much you attach yourself to his character and care more for his journey beyond a surface level.

I know people will bemoan the anime for its shortcomings with how it handles the strength of Future Trunks in the arc. And I can certainly understand those complaints very much so. But having power consistency is one thing, and making me care about the fate of the characters and being personally invested in them is another. And I personally cared much more Future Trunks' story in the anime than I did in the manga. There was more to cling on to in the anime that when it snatched away from you, in the fashion that it was in Episode 67, it resonated with you in some way very strongly. There just wasn't enough for me to personally invest into the manga's interpretation of the the events of the Future Trunks' story in his own arc.

The manga made him feel like a supporting character who ultimately didn't feel needed in the plot 80% of the time. And despite the nature of Merged Zamasu's defeat and his unexplained new SSJ form, Future Trunks felt like the central focus of his arc in the anime for better or for worse and made me care so much more for what he lost or gained.[/spoiler]

I think some of the 'disconnect' happened because fans keep calling the Future Trunks Saga either Goku Black Saga or Zamasu Saga. Not, it's "Future Trunks". As Black pointed out himself, he's the reason why everything happened in that arc, both good and bad.