"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kinokima]

About the Future Trunks saga why does it have to be only about one character?

It's about both Goku Black and Zamasu because they are both different aspects of the same villain
It's about Future Trunks because his world is under attack
It's about Goku because his body is stolen
It's about Vegeta because his son's world is being targeted.


I don't get why only one character has to be the focus. All these characters had a purpose in the story.

[Noah]

It almost seemed Zamasu could have overcome his demons if given a lot of time and patience, if he never met Goku in an ultimate form of irony since Goku usually brings out the best in people.

Not really, if that was the case he would never join forces with himself (Goku Black) seventeen years in the future, after seeing his master dead. He still have doubts about mortals and thoughts about killing Gowasu, Goku Black acknowledged that.

It's a shame that only the anime staff took the concepts of Future Trunks and explored them in more depth and made the most of Zamasu. While Toyotaro played it too damn safe.

Vegeta got developed in the Buu arc, this is supposed to be a continuation of that not the Cell arc. What's appealing about Vegeta being a stubborn asshole?

True, these actually are proofs that Toyotaro is not the best man for the job.

[SansrivaaL]

But Future Trunks was the key player in the manga, sure not by powerlevel but his participation was the key to them lasting that long in the 1st place, his healing powers and him slicing up MZamasu, the anime kinda pushed it a little too far for my taste with the SSJRage stuff but the manga was fine for me even if the original intention was Goku V MZamasu, their fight was a lot more intense than the FTrunks V MZamasu one (at least for me)

[perucho1990]

I guess thats why I feel like the manga's more closer to how DB would be than the anime one, the anime pushed Trunks way beyond what he should and would do, he went toe to toe with MZamasu, I kinda hope they went in deep about SSJRage and SSJRose, assuming SSJRage most likely wasnt his idea and was another Toei add with SSJBKK. Toriyama while watching the anime was probably like "woah... whats happening here, why does Trunks have 2 aura's? how's he fighting MZamasu toe to toe... what happened to Goku V MZamasu...*proceeds to call the writters on Toei* Guys... what happened?" joking aside I love how Nozawa got fan letters from girls about her sexy Black voice, she was the best thing in the arc.
Anyways, now all the more reasons to support the manga! while not perfect it still goes out of its way to follow AT's outline, these are the instances that I'm glad we have a manga version of it.
I hope we get an interview about the anime staff and Toriyama soon, and his art of MG Goku.

Toei:" Toriyama-Sensei, you want another Dragon Ball GT with Goku stealing the spotlight?"

GT has done permanent dmg to the franchise why was why there are some fans not wanting Goku to have the spotlight.

From a story standpoint Trunks vs Merged Zamasu makes sense, its just that they didnt bother explaining Ikari and the Genkidama, with the latter it couldve easier, just mention that it was the hybrids hidden potential or something like that(Look at Gohan who reached Blue level after hours of training too)

[TekTheNinja]

I guess thats why I feel like the manga's more closer to how DB would be than the anime one, the anime pushed Trunks way beyond what he should and would do, he went toe to toe with MZamasu, I kinda hope they went in deep about SSJRage and SSJRose, assuming SSJRage most likely wasnt his idea and was another Toei add with SSJBKK. Toriyama while watching the anime was probably like "woah... whats happening here, why does Trunks have 2 aura's? how's he fighting MZamasu toe to toe... what happened to Goku V MZamasu...*proceeds to call the writters on Toei* Guys... what happened?" joking aside I love how Nozawa got fan letters from girls about her sexy Black voice, she was the best thing in the arc.
Anyways, now all the more reasons to support the manga! while not perfect it still goes out of its way to follow AT's outline, these are the instances that I'm glad we have a manga version of it.
I hope we get an interview about the anime staff and Toriyama soon, and his art of MG Goku.

Toei:" Toriyama-Sensei, you want another Dragon Ball GT with Goku stealing the spotlight?"

It's strange in that Toriyama doesn't even want to give Piccolo attention despite him supposedly being one of his favorites.

[perucho1990]

Piccolos treatment has been an enigma.

BoG Movie: Beerus KOs him with chopsticks
FnF Movie: Struggles vs Shisami
BoG Arc: Overpowered by Beerus
FnF Arc: Jobs to Tagoma and gets killed by Freeza.
U6 Arc: Trolled by Frost
Trunks Arc: Tells Goku about the Mafuba and thats it.
ToP: Defeats a rusty Gohan, jobs to Hamila and Pernida to hype Tien, and he only has 1 elimination vs a scrub from U10.

[TekTheNinja]

Piccolos treatment has been an enigma.

BoG Movie: Beerus KOs him with chopsticks
FnF Movie: Struggles vs Shisami
BoG Arc: Overpowered by Beerus
FnF Arc: Jobs to Tagoma and gets killed by Freeza.
U6 Arc: Trolled by Frost
Trunks Arc: Tells Goku about the Mafuba and thats it.
ToP: Defeats a rusty Gohan, jobs to Hamila and Pernida to hype Tien, and he only has 1 elimination vs a scrub from U10.

Not only that, but Goku just blows him off to go see Roshi after hearing about the Mafuba in a scene that was supposed to be funny but honestly just made me feel bad for Piccolo.

[Michsi]

It's strange in that Toriyama doesn't even want to give Piccolo attention despite him supposedly being one of his favorites.

I think people overestimate what being one of the favorite character means. Vegeta wasn't one of his favorites and yet he kept giving him more and more screen time. It all comes down to what he thinks will make the story more appealing and if he believes that Goku and Vegeta is what most people want then that's what he will focus on. Or at least he will listen to those who say that's what fans want.

Since he himself has never cared that much about the fighting aspect, he probably doesn't see Piccolo's diminished fighting role as something bad for the character. Never mind that he has no qualms about being brutal when it comes to making it clear that certain characters are no longer competitive with the saiyans.

Fans like to say that Piccolo didn't do anything in the Buu Saga, but that is actually not true. He didn't do any fighting, but other than that, he did a lot. And he gave him a fairly prominent presence in what ended up being the author's favorite fight. Him being reduced to a comedic role might have rubbed some people the wrong way, but that's actually what Toriyama's favorite thing is : comedy and silliness.

[SansrivaaL]

Toei:" Toriyama-Sensei, you want another Dragon Ball GT with Goku stealing the spotlight?"

GT has done permanent dmg to the franchise why was why there are some fans not wanting Goku to have the spotlight.

From a story standpoint Trunks vs Merged Zamasu makes sense, its just that they didnt bother explaining Ikari and the Genkidama, with the latter it couldve easier, just mention that it was the hybrids hidden potential or something like that(Look at Gohan who reached Blue level after hours of training too)

Why does Goku having a fight with MZamasu equal to him stealing the spotlight? in between's cant happen? the manga was able to do that just fine as Trunks was still in a way able to land the final blow and saved Goku's ass.

I'm not well informed about the history of GT, it was actually fine for me, and I'm pretty sure its shortcomings werent just about Goku having the spotlight, take early DB for example, it worked fine and it was mostly about Goku.

For you yeah, for me no, Black/Zamasu not only fcked up FTrunks life but also Goku's (at least from another timeline), the guy took his body and is using it to kill innocent lives, the manga having Goku fight off MZamasu and FTrunks dealing the final blow via slicing him up was a tad better for my taste than what the anime pulled off with their transformations and that GD bs.
When did Gohan reach blue level? you mean the part when he was begging Goku to take him seriously? he was barely beating SSJ2 Goku.

[Whatever]

It's strange in that Toriyama doesn't even want to give Piccolo attention despite him supposedly being one of his favorites.

I think people overestimate what being one of the favorite character means. Vegeta wasn't one of his favorites and yet he kept giving him more and more screen time. It all comes down to what he thinks will make the story more appealing and if he believes that Goku and Vegeta is what most people want then that's what he will focus on. Or at least he will listen to those who say that's what fans want.
Since he himself has never cared that much about the fighting aspect, he probably doesn't see Piccolo's diminished fighting role as something bad for the character. Never mind that he has no qualms about being brutal when it comes to making it clear that certain characters are no longer competitive with the saiyans.
Fans like to say that Piccolo didn't do anything in the Buu Saga, but that is actually not true. He didn't do any fighting, but other than that he did a lot. And he gave him a fairly prominent presence in what ended up being the author's favorite fight. Him being reduced to a comedic role might have rubbed some people the wrong way, but that's actually what Toriyama's favorite thing is : comedy and silliness.

There is a simplier explanation to this,Toriyama's favourite characters change so does his opinions on them,Roshi is a prime example of that,just because Piccolo and Tien were his favourites at some point,that does not mean they are still are.
In the Freeza and Buu arc he brought back Piccolo/Vegeta to life at the 11th hour and even let them fight the main villain and make them usefull,he clearly went out of his way at those points to bring those characters back because he wanted to use them.
As for the Buu arc,Piccolo did nothing of importance,anything he did that influenced the plot was either undone or ended up being non-important at the end,like training Gotenks for example.

[Michsi]

It's strange in that Toriyama doesn't even want to give Piccolo attention despite him supposedly being one of his favorites.

I think people overestimate what being one of the favorite character means. Vegeta wasn't one of his favorites and yet he kept giving him more and more screen time. It all comes down to what he thinks will make the story more appealing and if he believes that Goku and Vegeta is what most people want then that's what he will focus on. Or at least he will listen to those who say that's what fans want.
Since he himself has never cared that much about the fighting aspect, he probably doesn't see Piccolo's diminished fighting role as something bad for the character. Never mind that he has no qualms about being brutal when it comes to making it clear that certain characters are no longer competitive with the saiyans.
Fans like to say that Piccolo didn't do anything in the Buu Saga, but that is actually not true. He didn't do any fighting, but other than that he did a lot. And he gave him a fairly prominent presence in what ended up being the author's favorite fight. Him being reduced to a comedic role might have rubbed some people the wrong way, but that's actually what Toriyama's favorite thing is : comedy and silliness.

There is a simplier explanation to this,Toriyama's favourite characters change so does his opinions on them,Roshi is a prime example of that,just because Piccolo and Tien were his favourites at some point,that does not mean they are still are.
In the Freeza and Buu arc he brought back Piccolo/Vegeta to life and even let them fight the main villain and make them usefull,he clearly went out of his way at those points to bring those characters back because he wanted to use them.
As for the Buu arc,Piccolo did nothing of importance,anything he did that influenced the plot was either undone or ended up being non-important at the end,like training Gotenks for example.

I think I remember him mentioning Tien maybe once in an interview, but Piccolo has been mentioned consistently throughout the years. Even Goku and Mr. Satan haven't been mentioned as often as he was. Not 100% sure of this, but I remember looking into this at some point and coming to the conclusion that Piccolo has indeed remained his favorite throughout the years.

As for his role in the Buu arc - that doesn't matter, same as it didn't matter in the Cell arc that he didn't end up destroying #17 or stop Cell. About 80% of what everyone does ends up being pointless, but that doesn't change that watching them do their thing is any less entertaining. Vegeta great sacrificial moment ended up being pointless, does that take away from the impact that scene had. There's more to a character's struggle than his winning streak.

[Whatever]

I think I remember him mentioning Tien maybe once in an interview, but Piccolo has been mentioned consistently throughout the years. Even Goku and Mr. Satan haven't been mentioned as often as he was. Not 100% sure of this, but I remember looking into this at some point and coming to the conclusion that Piccolo has indeed remained his favorite throughout the years.

As for his role in the Buu arc - that doesn't matter, same as it didn't matter in the Cell arc that he didn't end up destroying #17 or stop Cell. About 80% of what everyone does ends up being pointless, but that doesn't change that watching them do their thing is any less entertaining. Vegeta great sacrificial moment ended up being pointless, does that take away from the impact that scene had. There's more to a character's struggle than his winning streak.

Nope,there is a clear difference between your examples.
After he fused with Kami,thanks to him they learnt of Cell's origins thus leading to Trunks and Krillin killing present Cell,not to mention his battle with 17 lead Cell to the androids,in both cases he advanced the plot in both good and bad ways so his character ended up making a difference on the structure of the story.

In the Buu arc,everything he did ended up not mattering in the end.
'Killing' Babidi?Well turns out he is alive only for Buu to kill him a few minutes latter.
Teach Goten and Trunks?Well good thing Gotenks ended up being a waste of time himself.
Trapping Buu in the Chamber?Nah,Buu can scream his way out,can't have Piccolo do anything of importance.

As for Vegeta's sacrifice,this moment was very important character wise.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolos treatment has been an enigma.

BoG Movie: Beerus KOs him with chopsticks
FnF Movie: Struggles vs Shisami
BoG Arc: Overpowered by Beerus
FnF Arc: Jobs to Tagoma and gets killed by Freeza.
U6 Arc: Trolled by Frost
Trunks Arc: Tells Goku about the Mafuba and thats it.
ToP: Defeats a rusty Gohan, jobs to Hamila and Pernida to hype Tien, and he only has 1 elimination vs a scrub from U10.

How is getting beaten easily by Beerus a bad thing as Beerus can do that to anyone.

I completely ignore Bog super arc and especially Rof Super arc due to what Toei done to Piccolo in that.

What else was Piccolo suppose to do in the recruitment arc? He was already battle ready and did not need training or testing like some of the others did.

No he wasn't made to look bad to make Tien look good. It is completely wrong to say he was made to look bad. That could of been anyone in Piccolo's or Gohan's position as they wouldn't have been able to see where the sniper and reflector were.

Piccolo only having 1 elimination is the most stupidest thing they have done with Piccolo this arc as it is completely out character. Whoever decided that Piccolo has only 1 elimation after 52 elimations overall and also bottom of Universe 7 is just completely incompetent as it is not believable at all. Piccolo's elimination count better start to increase or I am going to be always annoyed with this arc.

[SansrivaaL]

Cauli saying both Kale and her will go SSJ3 is kind of a foreshadow that they will after they fuse, but I lowkey dont want it to happen mainly because... I like Kafla's base design and I'm not a fan of what she will look like when she goes 3.

[HeroR]

The key thing is that being Toriyama's favorite doesn't mean you will have a good fight. You may have story importance, but that's about it. Mr. Satan is one of Toriyama's favorites and he's a joke character despite the help he provided in the Cell and Buu Saga. Jaco is Toriyama's most current favorite and he's a butt monkey who has some story important like catching Frost cheating and helping to deduce Hit's ability.

Piccolo's important have more or less been getting Gohan back in shape, so has served the plot. If he gets more than that remains to be seen.

For the most part, Toriyama is more or less indifferent to his characters. Goku was his favorite and he tried to kill him off.

[TekTheNinja]

I think people overestimate what being one of the favorite character means. Vegeta wasn't one of his favorites and yet he kept giving him more and more screen time. It all comes down to what he thinks will make the story more appealing and if he believes that Goku and Vegeta is what most people want then that's what he will focus on. Or at least he will listen to those who say that's what fans want.
Since he himself has never cared that much about the fighting aspect, he probably doesn't see Piccolo's diminished fighting role as something bad for the character. Never mind that he has no qualms about being brutal when it comes to making it clear that certain characters are no longer competitive with the saiyans.
Fans like to say that Piccolo didn't do anything in the Buu Saga, but that is actually not true. He didn't do any fighting, but other than that he did a lot. And he gave him a fairly prominent presence in what ended up being the author's favorite fight. Him being reduced to a comedic role might have rubbed some people the wrong way, but that's actually what Toriyama's favorite thing is : comedy and silliness.

There is a simplier explanation to this,Toriyama's favourite characters change so does his opinions on them,Roshi is a prime example of that,just because Piccolo and Tien were his favourites at some point,that does not mean they are still are.
In the Freeza and Buu arc he brought back Piccolo/Vegeta to life and even let them fight the main villain and make them usefull,he clearly went out of his way at those points to bring those characters back because he wanted to use them.
As for the Buu arc,Piccolo did nothing of importance,anything he did that influenced the plot was either undone or ended up being non-important at the end,like training Gotenks for example.

I think I remember him mentioning Tien maybe once in an interview, but Piccolo has been mentioned consistently throughout the years. Even Goku and Mr. Satan haven't been mentioned as often as he was. Not 100% sure of this, but I remember looking into this at some point and coming to the conclusion that Piccolo has indeed remained his favorite throughout the years.

As for his role in the Buu arc - that doesn't matter, same as it didn't matter in the Cell arc that he didn't end up destroying #17 or stop Cell. About 80% of what everyone does ends up being pointless, but that doesn't change that watching them do their thing is any less entertaining. Vegeta great sacrificial moment ended up being pointless, does that take away from the impact that scene had. There's more to a character's struggle than his winning streak.

There's a big difference there though. I agree that Piccolo WAS relevant in the Buu arc, but in Super he's not. And it's not about him being comedic. It's about him constantly being the butt of the joke. In Super most of the jokes involving Piccolo aren't very funny because they consist of merely someone being a dick to Piccolo and that's the whole joke. Gohan seems like the only one in Super to treat the guy with any sort of respect.

[Michsi]

Nope,there is a clear difference between your examples.
After he fused with Kami,thanks to him they learnt of Cell's origins thus leading to Trunks and Krillin killing present Cell,not to mention his battle with 17 lead Cell to the androids,in both cases he advanced the plot in both good and bad ways so his character ended up making a difference on the structure of the story.

In the Buu arc,everything he did ended up not mattering in the end.
'Killing' Babidi?Well turns out he is alive only for Buu to kill him a few minutes latter.
Teach Goten and Trunks?Well good thing Gotenks ended up being a waste of time himself.
Trapping Buu in the Chamber?Nah,Buu can scream his way out,can't have Piccolo do anything of importance.

As for Vegeta's sacrifice,this moment was very important character wise.

Then we have a different method by which we measure a character's worth in a story. I do it based on the entertainment value they bring. I won't lie and say I didn't dislike that he didn't get to fight at all, and I absolutely hated him forfeiting his fight against Shin, but he performed fairly well given the circumstances, and seeing Gotenks drive him up the wall was fun for the most part.

Vegeta -It still ended up being pointless if it's in-universe usefulness we're judging it by.

[namekiansaiyan]

Cauli saying both Kale and her will go SSJ3 is kind of a foreshadow that they will after they transform, but I lowkey dont want it to happen mainly because... I like Kafla's base design and I'm not a fan of what she will look like when she goes 3.

They can get what ever they like as they will still get their arses beaten as they are useless at fighting. Anymore transformations will just make them more hated by fans.

The key thing is that being Toriyama's favorite doesn't mean you will have a good fight. You may have story importance, but that's about it. Mr. Satan is one of Toriyama's favorites and he's a joke character despite the help he provided in the Cell and Buu Saga. Jaco is Toriyama's most current favorite and he's a butt monkey who has some story important like catching Frost cheating and helping to deduce Hit's ability.

Piccolo's important have more or less been getting Gohan back in shape, so has served the plot. If he gets more than that remains to be seen.

For the most part, Toriyama is more or less indifferent to his characters. Goku was his favorite and he tried to kill him off.

Characters don't stay this long unless they are going to something.

No one has done anything to the plot apart from Goku. Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta and the rest have essentially done nothing so far.

[HeroR]

Cauli saying both Kale and her will go SSJ3 is kind of a foreshadow that they will after they transform, but I lowkey dont want it to happen mainly because... I like Kafla's base design and I'm not a fan of what she will look like when she goes 3.

They can get what ever they like as they will still get their arses beaten as they are useless at fighting. Anymore transformations will just make them more hated by fans.

The key thing is that being Toriyama's favorite doesn't mean you will have a good fight. You may have story importance, but that's about it. Mr. Satan is one of Toriyama's favorites and he's a joke character despite the help he provided in the Cell and Buu Saga. Jaco is Toriyama's most current favorite and he's a butt monkey who has some story important like catching Frost cheating and helping to deduce Hit's ability.

Piccolo's important have more or less been getting Gohan back in shape, so has served the plot. If he gets more than that remains to be seen.

For the most part, Toriyama is more or less indifferent to his characters. Goku was his favorite and he tried to kill him off.

Characters don't stay this long unless they are going to something.

No one has done anything to the plot apart from Goku. Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta and the rest have essentially done nothing so far.

You mean like Hit who stood as long as he did so Jiren could smash him? Or Cabba who stood around only for so long so Freeza could blast him out of the ring? Or Frost who survived his match with Vegeta, only to be knocked out next episode and then erased?

Freeza has done something for the plot with his scheming and he healed Goku after his fight with Jiren.

[BlueBasilisk]

Fans like to say that Piccolo didn't do anything in the Buu Saga, but that is actually not true. He didn't do any fighting, but other than that, he did a lot. And he gave him a fairly prominent presence in what ended up being the author's favorite fight. Him being reduced to a comedic role might have rubbed some people the wrong way, but that's actually what Toriyama's favorite thing is : comedy and silliness.

Didn't he say Gotenks vs Buu was one of his favorite fights because he loves drawing stupid, goofy nonsense like that? I remember in that same interview he said the real end-goal of the Frieza fight was the glare Goku gave him, and then he was kind of annoyed because he realized they'd still have to fight.