At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

[JazzMazz]

The sad thing is the new forms don't make battles look different. Look at the way Krillin was impressed by the power of two SSJ2's fighting....but...what? He literally just saw some Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku before...so what the hell is Super Saiyan 2 at this point?

There's literally no difference between the Saiyan form powers in a fight anymore. If Goku is SSJ or Blue...the fights look exactly the same. The characters all react to it the same way too...it's like it's meaningless. Goku brings up SSJ3...what is this form even supposed to mean at this point? He might as well go God again with the red hair.

TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.

Actually, Freeza vs Goku, Cell vs Goku and Kid Buu vs Goku are all three very distinct fights and there's nothing that similar between them... the techniques, choreography, etc are all different

Yeah, though I agree each of those fights had there own story beats, I'm more referring to how everything feat wise and almost everything choreography wise hasn't changed.

For example, in all those fights, you had explosions which were all roughly the same size, and mountains exploding the same way, and so on and so-forth.

[BlueBasilisk]

For example, in all those fights, you had explosions which were all roughly the same size, and mountains exploding the same way, and so on and so-forth.

The Final Flash and Kamehameha clash between Gohan and Cell were bigger than any ki blasts we'd seen up to that point, but as you said, the level of damage they did didn't increase noticeably. Even the threat of planetary destruction doesn't scale since we're told that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could do it with his powered-up Galick Gun.

[JazzMazz]

For example, in all those fights, you had explosions which were all roughly the same size, and mountains exploding the same way, and so on and so-forth.

The Final Flash and Kamehameha clash between Gohan and Cell were bigger than any ki blasts we'd seen up to that point, but as you said, the level of damage they did didn't increase noticeably. Even the threat of planetary destruction doesn't scale since we're told that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could do it with his powered-up Galick Gun.

Yeah, but it was still only just a big Kamehameha wave beam struggle. I don't see how it was any different from say Vegeta's beam struggle with Goku in the Saiyan arc besides the fact we are told it is more powerful.

Do you catch my drift? Dragonball hit the ceiling feat wise a long time ago.

[BlueBasilisk]

Yeah, but it was still only just a big Kamehameha wave beam struggle. I don't see how it was any different from say Vegeta's beam struggle with Goku in the Saiyan arc besides the fact we are told it is more powerful.

Do you catch my drift? Dragonball hit the ceiling feat wise a long time ago.

I was actually agreeing with your point. I was just saying that the beams looked bigger but functionally and in terms of feats nothing really changed.

[Meshack]

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro or Toei shafted Toriyama's original intention of dropping them in favor of fan service. You know, nostalgia.

Toyotarou is probably the one that did so. Toriyama has the ability to reject anything Toyotarou and Toei throw at him but he allowed Toyotarou to do God