Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

[Noah]

The curse of Vegeta's famous pose:

[giovanni02]

You are also underestimating the U6 saiyans, just because they didnt find themselves in a rage inducing situations to become SSJ2 doesn't mean their base power isnt incredibly strong which is why Cauliflas SSJ2 form is not that far below Gokus

Well, I believe the U6 Saiyans are actually being overestimated actually. Think about it for a second, Gohan trained for just a couple dozen hours before the tournament of power and during that time he had to recover his Boo saga power and probably couldn't get much farther than that (I mean, you don't think Gohan actually reached God-Base forms like Goku and Vegeta, right?), then you see that if Gohan has his same Boo saga power, he wouldn't be able to take Caulifla SSJ2 or Cabba SSJ2, which is just insane.

I think the actual scenario is Goku having SSJ God capabilities on his base form, which he used against Beerus, for example, but keeps reducing his power to Boo saga levels so that he can have more interesting fights than just blowing away the enemies as well as conserve energy. If you look at things from that perspective you'd have that a Kale and Caulifla fusion would be, at base power, pretty much what Vegetto was during the Boo saga. Going even further, you might analyze Goku vs Trunks. Goku used SSJ3 to take SSJ2 Trunks. Do you think Trunks had God-Base power? He had just one year before achieved SSJ2 and defeated Daburah with that, after training with the Kaioshin. Just a bunch of fights with Black wouldn't take him to Goku's base power, the conclusion is simple: Goku was holding back. He's constantly doing that, which is making Super power levels be so confusing.

Conclusion is: Caulifla SSJ2 should be weaker than Mystic Gohan and have similar base power to those in the Boo saga. Kale LSSJ is an unknown, but should be weaker than Goku SSJ God, her base should be similar to those in Boo saga as well. Therefore, the Kefla fusion in base should have a powerlevel around Vegetto's in base during the Boo saga. Which is a pretty sweet spot to be, considering Vegetto had an insane amount of power.

[Cabba]

Very fun episode! told ya'll Goku's line from ep 100 meant something, he was holding back, a lot.
Now that Kale not at God level is finally dealt with, this ep was so lit thanks to Yuya Takahashi! those smug spirit gun Goku shots and spirit wave ones, felt like those were nods to Yu Yu Hakusho, and the move in the OP that Goku was playing around with was actually used as a move in the episode! I thought they wouldnt use that. I hope we get more from him in the near future or at least on the Goku V Jiren PT2.
Only downside was.. Base Kefla speedblitzing SSJG Goku, granted he is still tired but still... that did not look good.

Yeah I'm happy with this episode fixing ep 100 and making things clearer
Also Berserk+ Kale might not be as powerful as SSG Goku but she is still Got tier to exchange blows with him, i would put her at least 50% SSG power

Base Kefla should be stronger than SSG if she is to beat vanilla SSB. SSG is Blues "base form" remember Blue is a Super Saiyan SSG
So it makes sense that if Super Saiyan Kefla matches/surpasses Vanilla SSB, then base Kefla matches/surpasses SSG

You mean Yamcha's Sokidan?

Why does any Ki blast with tracking control gets associated with Sokidan? If i remember correctly back in DB Piccolo used a tracking Technique against Goku

[Noah]

Why does any Ki blast with tracking control gets associated with Sokidan? If i remember correctly back in DB Piccolo used a tracking Technique against Goku

Why not? It's the same ball format, it's not like Goku used a Kamehameha that he could bend to track the enemy, also wasn't that tecnique he used on Piccolo in the 23rd TB? I don't remember Piccolo using a similar tactic

[Asura]

An excellent episode. Easily one of the best fights of the tournament so far which is pretty unexpected. Art and animation were pretty good too. The art in particular right at the start of the episode was amazing, felt like it was all drawn in the style of Z, just look...

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Think I might have caught some uncolored debris in that last shot too, lol.

Not a huge fan of Kefla's outfit, sorta stupid looking, shoulda just had Caulifla's pants.

So SSJ Kefla > SSB? Goku's gotta go kaioken just to deal with SSJ Kefla?

Jesus Christ, would SSJ3 Kefla be Jiren level?

EDIT: Didn't even see how many other people pointed out how good the art was this episode, damn, it's so good everyone can immediately notice it.

[Liquir]

Best Part of 114 - Gunslinger Goku

[giovanni02]

An excellent episode. Easily one of the best fights of the tournament so far which is pretty unexpected. Art and animation were pretty good too. The art in particular right at the start of the episode was amazing, felt like it was all drawn in the style of Z, just look...

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Think I might have caught some uncolored debris in that last shot too, lol.

Not a huge fan of Kefla's outfit, sorta stupid looking, shoulda just had Caulifla's pants.

So SSJ Kefla > SSB? Goku's gotta go kaioken just to deal with SSJ Kefla?

Jesus Christ, would SSJ3 Kefla be Jiren level?

It makes sense actually, since SSB is to SSG what SSJ1 is to Base, considering Kefla is proving to be stronger than SSG, her SSJ1 would be stronger than SSB. Going forward, however, we have to be careful. Using the common 2x and 4x multipliers for SSJ2 and SSJ3, I'd say that Kefla SSJ2 is around Goku SSB Kaioken 2x and Kefla SSJ3 is around Goku SSB Kaioken 4x. Nowhere near Jiren, really. But a Kefla LSSJ, that could be something else entirely. (don't know what though).

[SansrivaaL]

Best Part of 114 - Gunslinger Goku

Finally, a gif! spirit gun Goku ver!

[Cabba]

Well, I believe the U6 Saiyans are actually being overestimated actually. Think about it for a second, Gohan trained for just a couple dozen hours before the tournament of power and during that time he had to recover his Boo saga power and probably couldn't get much farther than that (I mean, you don't think Gohan actually reached God-Base forms like Goku and Vegeta, right?), then you see that if Gohan has his same Boo saga power, he wouldn't be able to take Caulifla SSJ2 or Cabba SSJ2, which is just insane.

I think the actual scenario is Goku having SSJ God capabilities on his base form, which he used against Beerus, for example, but keeps reducing his power to Boo saga levels so that he can have more interesting fights than just blowing away the enemies as well as conserve energy. If you look at things from that perspective you'd have that a Kale and Caulifla fusion would be, at base power, pretty much what Vegetto was during the Boo saga. Going even further, you might analyze Goku vs Trunks. Goku used SSJ3 to take SSJ2 Trunks. Do you think Trunks had God-Base power? He had just one year before achieved SSJ2 and defeated Daburah with that, after training with the Kaioshin. Just a bunch of fights with Black wouldn't take him to Goku's base power, the conclusion is simple: Goku was holding back. He's constantly doing that, which is making Super power levels be so confusing.

Conclusion is: Caulifla SSJ2 should be weaker than Mystic Gohan and have similar base power to those in the Boo saga. Kale LSSJ is an unknown, but should be weaker than Goku SSJ God, her base should be similar to those in Boo saga as well. Therefore, the Kefla fusion in base should have a powerlevel around Vegetto's in base during the Boo saga. Which is a pretty sweet spot to be, considering Vegetto had an insane amount of power.

Well if you remember correctly after Gohan recovered his "original" power Piccolo told him he could become even stronger and they carried on with their training. I would put Gohan on DBS SS3 Goku level maybe
I agree with Goku holding against trunks and they using the transformations for spectacle but hear me out

I'm not saying Caulifla is as strong as SS2 Goku, I'm saying she is close to him so that she isn't fodder. You could say they are on the same league with Gokus SS2 being a few notches above. For arguments sake lets say Goku SS2 is on the Vegetto tier and SS2 Caulifla is 50% of that. Then you have Kale mastered LSSJ which is a notch below SSG Goku but God tier nonetheless again for arguments sake lets say she is 50% of SSG Goku

So if you fuse using potara
50% Vegeto and 50% SSG vs DBZ Saga SS2 Vegeta and SS3 Goku
The obvious conclusion is for Kefura to be stronger than Majin Saga Vegetto

It is what it is, it sucks how poorly U6 saiyans were introduced, it would have been better if they were all already seasoned Super Saiyans that way their power wouldn't seem out of place

[SuperDragoon]

You are also underestimating the U6 saiyans, just because they didnt find themselves in a rage inducing situations to become SSJ2 doesn't mean their base power isnt incredibly strong which is why Cauliflas SSJ2 form is not that far below Gokus

Well, I believe the U6 Saiyans are actually being overestimated actually. Think about it for a second, Gohan trained for just a couple dozen hours before the tournament of power and during that time he had to recover his Boo saga power and probably couldn't get much farther than that (I mean, you don't think Gohan actually reached God-Base forms like Goku and Vegeta, right?), then you see that if Gohan has his same Boo saga power, he wouldn't be able to take Caulifla SSJ2 or Cabba SSJ2, which is just insane.

I think the actual scenario is Goku having SSJ God capabilities on his base form, which he used against Beerus, for example, but keeps reducing his power to Boo saga levels so that he can have more interesting fights than just blowing away the enemies as well as conserve energy. If you look at things from that perspective you'd have that a Kale and Caulifla fusion would be, at base power, pretty much what Vegetto was during the Boo saga. Going even further, you might analyze Goku vs Trunks. Goku used SSJ3 to take SSJ2 Trunks. Do you think Trunks had God-Base power? He had just one year before achieved SSJ2 and defeated Daburah with that, after training with the Kaioshin. Just a bunch of fights with Black wouldn't take him to Goku's base power, the conclusion is simple: Goku was holding back. He's constantly doing that, which is making Super power levels be so confusing.

Conclusion is: Caulifla SSJ2 should be weaker than Mystic Gohan and have similar base power to those in the Boo saga. Kale LSSJ is an unknown, but should be weaker than Goku SSJ God, her base should be similar to those in Boo saga as well. Therefore, the Kefla fusion in base should have a powerlevel around Vegetto's in base during the Boo saga. Which is a pretty sweet spot to be, considering Vegetto had an insane amount of power.

No. Current Gohan is far, far above his Buy saga self wether it makes sense or not. Caulifla and Kale shouild be well above anyone in Z.

[Cabba]

Why does any Ki blast with tracking control gets associated with Sokidan? If i remember correctly back in DB Piccolo used a tracking Technique against Goku

Why not? It's the same ball format, it's not like Goku used a Kamehameha that he could bend to track the enemy, also wasn't that tecnique he used on Piccolo in the 23rd TB? I don't remember Piccolo using a similar tactic

I cant remember i know it was used in their fight, i think Piccolo used it on him and then Gou tricked him by making piccolo tank his own technique
Even still its just tracking it doesn't matter the shape of the attack, Freeza also used it with his cutting saucers

Gotta watch DB again soon

[Kataphrut]

This episode made me think of Schindler's List twice, which is something I never thought Dragon Ball would ever do.

First, Freeza standing in a high place shooting at random people. Classic Amon Goth move from a Space Nazi.

Second, at the very end, they showed a bunch of shots of everyone in grayscale, except Jiren who was accentuated by his red aura. Jiren is the red coat girl from Schindler's List now, and I don't think a more offensive thing has ever been said, on this forum or anywhere else.

[giovanni02]

Well, I believe the U6 Saiyans are actually being overestimated actually. Think about it for a second, Gohan trained for just a couple dozen hours before the tournament of power and during that time he had to recover his Boo saga power and probably couldn't get much farther than that (I mean, you don't think Gohan actually reached God-Base forms like Goku and Vegeta, right?), then you see that if Gohan has his same Boo saga power, he wouldn't be able to take Caulifla SSJ2 or Cabba SSJ2, which is just insane.

I think the actual scenario is Goku having SSJ God capabilities on his base form, which he used against Beerus, for example, but keeps reducing his power to Boo saga levels so that he can have more interesting fights than just blowing away the enemies as well as conserve energy. If you look at things from that perspective you'd have that a Kale and Caulifla fusion would be, at base power, pretty much what Vegetto was during the Boo saga. Going even further, you might analyze Goku vs Trunks. Goku used SSJ3 to take SSJ2 Trunks. Do you think Trunks had God-Base power? He had just one year before achieved SSJ2 and defeated Daburah with that, after training with the Kaioshin. Just a bunch of fights with Black wouldn't take him to Goku's base power, the conclusion is simple: Goku was holding back. He's constantly doing that, which is making Super power levels be so confusing.

Conclusion is: Caulifla SSJ2 should be weaker than Mystic Gohan and have similar base power to those in the Boo saga. Kale LSSJ is an unknown, but should be weaker than Goku SSJ God, her base should be similar to those in Boo saga as well. Therefore, the Kefla fusion in base should have a powerlevel around Vegetto's in base during the Boo saga. Which is a pretty sweet spot to be, considering Vegetto had an insane amount of power.

Well if you remember correctly after Gohan recovered his "original" power Piccolo told him he could become even stronger and they carried on with their training. I would put Gohan on DBS SS3 Goku level maybe
I agree with Goku holding against trunks and they using the transformations for spectacle but hear me out

I'm not saying Caulifla is as strong as SS2 Goku, I'm saying she is close to him so that she isn't fodder. You could say they are on the same league with Gokus SS2 being a few notches above. For arguments sake lets say Goku SS2 is on the Vegetto tier and SS2 Caulifla is 50% of that. Then you have Kale mastered LSSJ which is a notch below SSG Goku but God tier nonetheless again for arguments sake lets say she is 50% of SSG Goku

So if you fuse using potara
50% Vegeto and 50% SSG vs DBZ Saga SS2 Vegeta and SS3 Goku
The obvious conclusion is for Kefura to be stronger than Majin Saga Vegetto

It is what it is, it sucks how poorly U6 saiyans were introduced, it would have been better if they were all already seasoned Super Saiyans that way their power wouldn't seem out of place

Sure I believe that some powerlevel increase is possible to have happened, though I don't think it's very significant for Gohan (it was just a few hours, after all). However, regarding the potara fusion, remember that Kefla was in complete base form, she has yet to use LSSJ, which means she is equivalent to a fusion of the two bases. Honestly, even if they have a fraction of SSJ3 Boo saga power, the difference shouldn't be that huge, the point is pretty much that they are around that league. I think Goku was holding back until he used SSJ God, he could've just continued in base form, like he did with Beerus after the time limit. In the end, Kefla's base form shouldn't be much stronger than Vegetto's in Boo saga, though there could be a slight advantage for either one (there's also the rival boost and other stuff, like Vegetto being pretty much a perfect warrior in martial arts while Kefla barely learned how to properly fight). Now, obviously, if Kefla uses LSSJ, she could be on a whole other league.

[Noah]

Even still its just tracking it doesn't matter the shape of the attack, Freeza also used it with his cutting saucers

Well these are the same Kienzan-type and can cut the opponent real easy unlike a ball shaped attack as Sokidan.

[TheOne]

An excellent episode. Easily one of the best fights of the tournament so far which is pretty unexpected. Art and animation were pretty good too. The art in particular right at the start of the episode was amazing, felt like it was all drawn in the style of Z, just look...

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Think I might have caught some uncolored debris in that last shot too, lol.

Not a huge fan of Kefla's outfit, sorta stupid looking, shoulda just had Caulifla's pants.

So SSJ Kefla > SSB? Goku's gotta go kaioken just to deal with SSJ Kefla?

Jesus Christ, would SSJ3 Kefla be Jiren level?

EDIT: Didn't even see how many other people pointed out how good the art was this episode, damn, it's so good everyone can immediately notice it.

Wow. I loved the animation in the beginning. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of Z during that time.

I’m in that small group of people who liked Z animation over Super.

[Jigurashi]

An excellent episode. Easily one of the best fights of the tournament so far which is pretty unexpected. Art and animation were pretty good too. The art in particular right at the start of the episode was amazing, felt like it was all drawn in the style of Z, just look...

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Think I might have caught some uncolored debris in that last shot too, lol.

Not a huge fan of Kefla's outfit, sorta stupid looking, shoulda just had Caulifla's pants.

So SSJ Kefla > SSB? Goku's gotta go kaioken just to deal with SSJ Kefla?

Jesus Christ, would SSJ3 Kefla be Jiren level?

EDIT: Didn't even see how many other people pointed out how good the art was this episode, damn, it's so good everyone can immediately notice it.

Wow. I loved the animation in the beginning. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of Z during that time.

I’m in that small group of people who liked Z animation over Super.

That's a small group? I personally think Super's best easily beats Z's best.

[precita]

Judging by this ep I do get the feeling Freeza will eventually be the one to knock Caulifa or Kale out for good. Most likely their fusion form will wear off before the end of the tournament and they'll be split in two again.

[Kaio_Krazy]

Hot damn, this episode looked mouthwateringly delicious! Gave me those classic DBZ feels, can't wait to see Ajay's breakdown of this episode. Loved the variety in the fight choreography, some very cool storyboarded moments. Didn't see the point in the throwaway Space Cop character, though I did chuckle at the ending gag with Freeza. I only hope the next episode will be as cool, bring on the fight with Kefla, or whatever the hell everyone else is calling her.

[Freeza9000]

Holy crap, I don't think a single episode in the past episodes of the Tournament of Power besides the 2 episode special looked this mesmerizingly gorgeous. It almost salvaged the SSJG form after several arcs of absence with the beautiful art, shading and battle damage. I never thought of SSJG syncing this well on battle damaged Goku, but Yuya Takahashi made it one hell of a spectacle!

As for the episode, am I glad that Broli 2.0 wasn't as prevalent as it was before. It severely dragged Kale's character down for me if her only character purpose is dedicated to being a walking AMV tribute to Broli 24/7, but I'm relieved that she has broken away from that annoying shtick and evolved into her own character. I may not be Kale's biggest fan and how arc introduced her character, but my original resentment for her has really been knocked down a few notches as she showcased some great character growth this episode. She has definitely displayed impressive valor and courage in a battle face-to-face against a Saiyan god far above their leagues and served as a satisfying far cry from the mentally unstable powerless girl she was several episodes ago.

The fusion Kefla's design looks downright stupid. I don't know whether it's the color of the clothes, how the clothes are mostly from Kale, or the skinny long-legs. I would've actually preferred if Kefla had something along the lines of Caulila's baggy pants colored red. A bit ridiculous that the fusion is capable of speedblitzing Super Saiyan God Goku and pushing him to Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken heights of power, but the Potara does have a reputation for its broken power boosts.

[TheOne]

An excellent episode. Easily one of the best fights of the tournament so far which is pretty unexpected. Art and animation were pretty good too. The art in particular right at the start of the episode was amazing, felt like it was all drawn in the style of Z, just look...

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Think I might have caught some uncolored debris in that last shot too, lol.

Not a huge fan of Kefla's outfit, sorta stupid looking, shoulda just had Caulifla's pants.

So SSJ Kefla > SSB? Goku's gotta go kaioken just to deal with SSJ Kefla?

Jesus Christ, would SSJ3 Kefla be Jiren level?

EDIT: Didn't even see how many other people pointed out how good the art was this episode, damn, it's so good everyone can immediately notice it.

Wow. I loved the animation in the beginning. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of Z during that time.

I’m in that small group of people who liked Z animation over Super.

That's a small group? I personally think Super's best easily beats Z's best.

Yeah I think it’s a small group.

Super definitely has its moments, but sometimes it just lacks some of the detail and emotion that I personally felt captured in the Z animation. I’m not blinded by nostalgia so don’t use that as an excuse. I wouldn’t trade Zs emotional moments of Trunks finding Gohan dead in the rain or Goku transforming to a ssj for Supers version of it. Even if it it was made hastely.