How Califla made Gohan look pathetic

[Cabba]

He took Goku and Gohan by surprise but not because of his fighting skills,it was because of his power.
Goten liked to fight but as a sport at the best not like Goku did,heck they did not care about fighting Buu,they were planning to use their fight against Buu as a means to show off.

Goku also likes to fight as sport, thats the whole point of it fighting for the sake of it, heck many famous football players in south america started playing for the fun of the sport with home made balls, bare feet and what not, I know they were surprised by his power i said as much, thats not all though Goku also said they had great skill when he saw Goten and Trunks fight at the tournament. They were also exited to fight powerful MajinBuu
There is also the fact than in more than one occasion Goten was stated to have similar personality to that of Goku, I'm not saying he is a 1:1 copy of Goku but to say fighting was just some side fun is wrong

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?

My Gut tells me he will, they have been hyping him up for the tournament, they wouldn't have given him a free/bonus power boost. If only for his fight namekians, fused namekians, dyspo, fused demons etc

How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?

Uhh... Because of the spoiler of Caulifla and Kale fusing at 114? Thats officially the end for her as far as the ToP goes

And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

Its part of the hype machine, they wouldn't have done all that promo for nothing, even if he only fights the namekians his fight will be more fleshed out and interesting than 113/114

Yeah, it's kind of hard to say they're going to be unimportant characters when they've had 8 or 9 episodes of focus this arc either as the central plot or as a significant 'b' plot. Even Cabba's two focus episodes linked back to Caulifla and Kale somehow. Who else has had that much focus?
People were so sure they'd be gone after their appearances in 100 and 101 but the narrative seems to be treating the three Saiyans and to a lesser extent Hit as deuteragonists to the U7 team or at least to Goku rather than enemies.

Ehh people are forgetting this arc just got to the half and its nowhere near the end, its a long way to march there is so much more than can happen
So far all Caulifla/Kale had was character introduction since we didnt know anything about them prior, as far as fights in the ToP goes Cauli had little participation beyond her interest in Goku and Kale as a Broly home-age
People are also quick to forget the arc started before the actual tournament, there were episodes dedicated to Gohans training and his fight with Goku prior

Well, 114 did no favors for Gohan since even Cali, who was more or less called a street fighter in 113, countered IT and she was more even against Goku then Gohan was against the guy from U2 given what true form Freeza did to him.

Well Goku and Gohan were holding back, gohan wasn't even using his full power yet when fighting the yadorat and we all saw how Goku SS2 dominated Cauli, they all have their weak moments hell just last episode Cauli SS2 was being pushed back by base form Goku
Besides Gohan is right beside Cauli about them being amateurs, Gohan just one day before the ToP trained to gain back his fighting sense and with that one day he already surpassed Caulifla

[HeroR]

He took Goku and Gohan by surprise but not because of his fighting skills,it was because of his power.
Goten liked to fight but as a sport at the best not like Goku did,heck they did not care about fighting Buu,they were planning to use their fight against Buu as a means to show off.

Goku also likes to fight as sport, thats the whole point of it fighting for the sake of it, heck many famous football players in south america started playing for the fun of the sport with home made balls, bare feet and what not, I know they were surprised by his power i said as much, thats not all though Goku also said they had great skill when he saw Goten and Trunks fight at the tournament. They were also exited to fight powerful MajinBuu
There is also the fact than in more than one occasion Goten was stated to have similar personality to that of Goku, I'm not saying he is a 1:1 copy of Goku but to say fighting was just some side fun is wrong

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?

My Gut tells me he will, they have been hyping him up for the tournament, they wouldn't have given him a free/bonus power boost. If only for his fight namekians, fused namekians, dyspo, fused demons etc

How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?

Uhh... Because of the spoiler of Caulifla and Kale fusing at 114? Thats officially the end for her as far as the ToP goes

And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

Its part of the hype machine, they wouldn't have done all that promo for nothing, even if he only fights the namekians his fight will be more fleshed out and interesting than 113/114

Yeah, it's kind of hard to say they're going to be unimportant characters when they've had 8 or 9 episodes of focus this arc either as the central plot or as a significant 'b' plot. Even Cabba's two focus episodes linked back to Caulifla and Kale somehow. Who else has had that much focus?
People were so sure they'd be gone after their appearances in 100 and 101 but the narrative seems to be treating the three Saiyans and to a lesser extent Hit as deuteragonists to the U7 team or at least to Goku rather than enemies.

Ehh people are forgetting this arc just got to the half and its nowhere near the end, its a long way to march there is so much more than can happen
So far all Caulifla/Kale had was character introduction since we didnt know anything about them prior, as far as fights in the ToP goes Cauli had little participation beyond her interest in Goku and Kale as a Broly home-age
People are also quick to forget the arc started before the actual tournament, there were episodes dedicated to Gohans training and his fight with Goku prior

Well, 114 did no favors for Gohan since even Cali, who was more or less called a street fighter in 113, countered IT and she was more even against Goku then Gohan was against the guy from U2 given what true form Freeza did to him.

Well Goku and Gohan were holding back, gohan wasn't even using his full power yet when fighting the yadorat and we all saw how Goku SS2 dominated Cauli, they all have their weak moments hell just last episode Cauli SS2 was being pushed back by base form Goku
Besides Gohan is right beside Cauli about them being amateurs, Gohan just one day before the ToP trained to gain back his fighting sense and with that one day he already surpassed Caulifla

Okay, this excuse needs to die. Freeza was holding back too and he countered IT. Gohan doesn’t need his full power to counter IT. Frieza didn’t need to be gold, so why does Gohan need Ulimate.

Goku dominated Super Saiyan 2 Cali in 113. In 114 where Goku was fighting at his max at Super Saiyan 2, Cali kept up and outplayed Goku. Cali was also being pushed back by base form Goku because of his experience, but she adapted and learn, unlike Gohan.

Gohan has power, but that’s all he has going for him right now. Cali adaptive faster than Gohan and counter a technquie that Gohan couldn’t despite seeing it for most of his life.

Gohan not countering IT after Cali did it with shorter exposer to it and had no speed advantage makes Gohan look worst than he did already.

[Olympian]

He became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

Yeah, Goten 1.0. Basically the same he was at a younger age but just grown up. Same interests and everything.

If it ain`t funny it ain`t done.

Thats being purposefully disingenuous, since Goten had special interest in martial arts, contantly sparred with Trunks, got stronger training with Gohan and was considered a prodigy for his age
Hopefully DBS will get pass this and retcon this

Every bit as disingenous as calling an accomplished character a "loser" for being retired or less?

And I`m not, not really, exactly because they`ve done so little with them. Goten and Trunks may enjoy martial arts and may have been prodigies but that`s nothing unique in this cast. They all are/have been. When you talk about character, their main trait is to have fun and little else and years later it keeps that way. Part of the issue is mainly Gotenks being perhaps more iconic than either alone, Goten being a Goku clone (making him redunctant) and Trunks being far more iconic as a Future version. There`s thus a risk these two will remain children permanently. But of course, everything can change, if creators are willing.

[Cabba]

Okay, this excuse needs to die. Freeza was holding back too and he countered IT. Gohan doesn’t need his full power to counter IT. Frieza didn’t need to be gold, so why does Gohan need Ulimate.

Goku dominated Super Saiyan 2 Cali in 113. In 114 where Goku was fighting at his max at Super Saiyan 2, Cali kept up and outplayed Goku. Cali was also being pushed back by base form Goku because of his experience, but she adapted and learn, unlike Gohan.

Gohan has power, but that’s all he has going for him right now. Cali adaptive faster than Gohan and counter a technquie that Gohan couldn’t despite seeing it for most of his life.

Gohan not countering IT after Cali did it with shorter exposer to it and had no speed advantage makes Gohan look worst than he did already.

Its not an excuse though, its a fact. Gohan powered up and got the Mystic fangs while fighting Freeza which implies he wasn't using said power against the Yadarat, even wihout mystic form we dont know how much Gohan powered up. IN his fight against base Goku he had some power up scenes before actually going Mystic.
So Gohan was just taking his sweet time adapting to it, you could also make the argument for the Yadarat being better than Goku at IT, and final form freeza could very well be stronger than base form Gohan

Caulifla was already full power SSJ2 when she countered IT, your reaction time and reflexes are faster when in full power so to say this doesn't matter is disingenuous

How did Cauli outplayed Goku? Goku SSJ2 was clearly superior since Cauli needed Kales help to hit Goku, she used Gokus blind spots while fighting Kale to hit Goku. In a 1:1 Goku SSJ2 has the clear edge. Hell Goku SSJ2 was fighting off Mastered LSSJ Kale while fighting Caulifla that alone puts Goku SSJ2 a few notches above Caulifla

Edit:
Heck she said so as much she wouldnt be able to beat SSJ2 Goku alone
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Every bit as disingenuous as calling an accomplished character a "loser" for being retired or less?

I said Goten became a loser like Yamcha at EoZ because he had nothing going for him unlike his brother who is a dedicated successful scholar or Trunks who is the president of the most important corporation in the world
I have mad respect for Gohan as character so its not really about losing the dogi, you missed the point

And I`m not, not really, exactly because they`ve done so little with them. Goten and Trunks may enjoy martial arts and may have been prodigies but that`s nothing unique in this cast. They all are/have been. When you talk about character, their main trait is to have fun and little else and years later it keeps that way. Part of the issue is mainly Gotenks being perhaps more iconic than either alone, Goten being a Goku clone (making him redunctant) and Trunks being far more iconic as a Future version. There`s thus a risk these two will remain children permanently. But of course, everything can change, if creators are willing.

I'm just pointing out the disconnect between thier Majin saga self and EoZ, they could have done a much better job with Goten and Trunks. I feel they wanted to hammer home the peace trope to put extra emphasis about them not needing to train anymore because peace reigns on earth. It still feels cheap, peace reigned on earth when both Goten and Trunks trained together for plot reasons

[Jigurashi]

How anyone can like Gohan in Super boggles my mind. This character is so bland and terrible, I'd rather see Yamcha or Goten and Trunks. Face it, he will NEVER be written like he was in any DBZ arc.

He came off as bland and boring in Z to me as well tbh.

[Jigurashi]

I don't think this comparison is fair. From the very beginning Gohan personality and attitude towards fighting was meant to contrast Goku's battle loving nature. But he was never described as this battle genius the way Caulifla has been, nor has he ever shown her level of childish enthusiasm.

What rubbish! They are both useless fighters.

What makes them both useless fighters?

[namekiansaiyan]

I don't think this comparison is fair. From the very beginning Gohan personality and attitude towards fighting was meant to contrast Goku's battle loving nature. But he was never described as this battle genius the way Caulifla has been, nor has he ever shown her level of childish enthusiasm.

What rubbish! They are both useless fighters.

What makes them both useless fighters?

Watch their fights and you will see they lack real fighting skill compared to other fighters.

[RedHeat]

What rubbish! They are both useless fighters.

What makes them both useless fighters?

Watch their fights and you will see they lack real fighting skill compared to other fighters.

"real" fighting skill only gets you so far when you start getting your ass handed to you, forcing you into a God form.

Edit: Also, Caulifla and Kale know boxing.

[namekiansaiyan]

What makes them both useless fighters?

Watch their fights and you will see they lack real fighting skill compared to other fighters.

"real" fighting skill only gets you so far when you start getting your ass handed to you, forcing you into a God form.

Edit: Also, Caulifla and Kale know boxing.

Being able to punch or kick hard does not make you a good fighter and just means you can punch or kick hard.

[Jigurashi]

What rubbish! They are both useless fighters.

What makes them both useless fighters?

Watch their fights and you will see they lack real fighting skill compared to other fighters.

I did. I watched Caulifla improve quickly and adapt to IT. While Gohan was left unable to do that. I definitely wouldn't call Caulifla a fighting genius but you greatly exaggerate her being a useless fighter.

[Olympian]

I said Goten became a loser like Yamcha at EoZ because he had nothing going for him unlike his brother who is a dedicated successful scholar or Trunks who is the president of the most important corporation in the world
I have mad respect for Gohan as character so its not really about losing the dogi, you missed the point

I`m not talking about your comparion between Gohan and Goten here, I`m talking about your comparison between Goten and Yamcha.