Super is ending!?! (No, it's not)

[TheMikado]

I’ve been calling this since the champs arc...
but whatever I’ll lost the obviously reasons why in this thread in a bit.

Seriously people, Stevie Wonder could have seen this coming a mile away on a dark night in the fog..

Wait, what? Dude, that doesn't make you clairvoyant. The Battle of Gods, Resurrection 'F', and Universe 6 arcs were the minimum Super would run for.

Anybody can say at the end of each arc that it will be Super's last arc. I can say Universe Survival will be the last one, then when I'm wrong I can say the following arc will be Super's last.

That's what you're saying that you have been doing. ... That's not "calling it," or that anyone can "see that coming." You're just guessing and checking based on a baseless assumption that Super will be erased from continuity by the Super Dragon Balls. Not only is that far too meta for Dragon Ball, it is a poor business move to pretend an entire series never happened.

Yeah hold on what I specifically called from the Champa arc is that they will reset the timeline because even before the ToP was announced the appear of Zeno God of everything and the Super Dragonballs immediate meant narratively there would be a threat which threatened pretty much every universe and that the only fix for it would be the Super Dragonballs it doesn’t take a detective to figure that out from the jump that that was he series end game. I continue and maintain Super will end with a reset. I think it will be at the end of the this tournament and this is the only time I’ve placed a timeline at the end of an arc.

The citing business reasons is absurd because it still allows for every single character and world to exist. If anything a reset where the characters and universe aren’t destroyed is a better business decision as it allows more merchandise,
and side stories. Saying that it cannot undo a fiction story because fans will be made their fictional story is no longer relevant is absurd.

Even more absurd than that is the idea that a project which as per this interview the merchandising determines it viability and the introduction of over 100 new characters and merchandising opportunities and universes and worlds to explore are introduced and then immediately thrown away is ridiculous. Further we already see in universe the hints at Vegeta using the Dragonballs to wish back the universe which would be an obvious narrative conclusion but a simple. But this is easily thrown out the window with a single sentence from the Grand Priest saying Zeno will just destroy them immediately afterwards.

Basically as I emphasized before this interview does nothing beyond adding to an evidence pile that they are thinking about beyond Super for the franchise as a whole. We have a 2018 website and no confirmation on whether it’s an actual movie. My stance has and continues to be
Super on its current timeline and track will be reset. And a new timeline immediately follows one where they have not met Beerus. Now whether it’s a separate series or the same. Who knows but there will be something happening in 2018 and there’s no confirmation that it is a series. There’s more than enough evidence both in and out of universe that we are hitting the endgame narratively. Even the saga being exceptionally large when compared to the others should at least give pause. When completed it will be almost as large as all the other arcs combined. Any one factor taken individually could be circumstantial but we aren’t talking about one factor and I’m incredibly confident Super will end based on both the internal and external evidence. There’s literally no counter evidence that this won’t other happen other than “that’s stupid and bad business decision”

[Jigurashi]

I wish, but they don't have the balls to do something like that. Hell, modern Toriyama doesn't even have the balls let anyone besides Goku and Vegeta fight most of the lackeys, let alone be the main focus. Also wouldn't even let Vegeta kill Frieza. Even if they go beyond EoZ, Goku will still be miles ahead of everyone and boringly sweeping up enemies. This is the fatal flaw of modern Dragon Ball.

This isn't a modern DB thing. This has been going on for some time in DB. Personally, I don't really like it myself, but Goku being miles ahead of his friends almost all the time will probably never change unfortunately.

Nope. In Z, Goku wasn't even always the strongest. He quickly regained the title of strongest every time, but still had actual competition. And back then, while you could say Goku was say, twice as strong as Krillin for example, here he isn't even in the same strength ballpark as any of the humans. And now with Ultra Instinct, I don't see how even Vegeta can even remotely keep up.

Never said he was always the strongest. You're right, Z was different from OG where Goku was king almost all the time. I liked that about Z, I didn't like that the others felt useless when he wasn't around. As for Vegeta, Vegeta has pretty much hardly ever been able to keep up since Goku left the Rosat. He's caught up to Goku on like 2 brief occasions and Goku outstripped him easily once again, and has remained above him since. I'm not saying this isn't an issue, as it is. But Goku outclassing his friends massively is nothing new. This isn't just modern DB. You left out OG in your statement which was more similar to Super than Z. Goku was above them quite a bit most of the time.

[Asura]

i think it would be okay for the series to end after this arc, as long as we get Dragon Ball Super KAI after.

Dragon Ball Super Kai!?!

Will each arc last 5 episodes?

[emperior]

i think it would be okay for the series to end after this arc, as long as we get Dragon Ball Super KAI after.

Dragon Ball Super Kai!?!

Will each arc last 5 episodes?

Super Kai will never happen but if it happened, they could cut all the filler episodes and filler parts, like Oolong vs Beerus and most of Pilaf Gang scenes, and improve the art and animation while also adding some new scenes. It wouldn't be that hard to be honest.

[Lord Beerus]

i think it would be okay for the series to end after this arc, as long as we get Dragon Ball Super KAI after.

Dragon Ball Super Kai!?!

Will each arc last 5 episodes?

I honestly wouldn't mind a compilation project of some sort based on the arcs of Super.

[Kinokima]

Dragon Ball Super Kai would mean no Baseball episode. That would be a travesty.

[Marlowe89]

This thread epitomizes just how much mistranslation and misinformation are still big issues within this fandom.

That's going to be an issue within any decently-sized fandom though. I consider it more of a blessing that we have competent, dedicated translators like Jake and Julian to clear this stuff up, because that's definitely an advantage that not all fanbases are fortunate enough to have.

[pacz360]

This thread epitomizes just how much mistranslation and misinformation are still big issues within this fandom.

That's going to be an issue within any decently-sized fandom though. I consider it more of a blessing that we have competent, dedicated translators like Jake and Julian to clear this stuff up, because that's definitely an advantage that not all fanbases are fortunate enough to have.

What fanbases have this problem besides us?

[Faisal Shourov]

What fanbases have this problem besides us?

None. Naruto fanbase maybe obsessed with shipping but they're nowhere near this dense, nor they spread misinformation. Can't help when more than half the fanbase are incapable of critical thinking and follow Dragon Ball because of power levels. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes DB fanbase look idiotic (which it is, unfortunately)

Have been on One Piece and Naruto forums, I honestly feel ashamed how bad DB fanbase is regarding misinformation

[Marlowe89]

What fanbases have this problem besides us?

There have been several instances of the Naruto fanbase misinterpreting something based on misinformation and faulty translations, so there's that. One Piece and Bleach, too, although to a lesser extent. It's generally a thing within specialized forums, much like Kanzenshuu.

The severity of non-credibility within a general community obviously varies, and Dragon Ball might indeed get the worst of it, but anything even remotely large enough to have any presence of in-universe debate (especially if it's concerned with strength tiers or power-scaling) is bound to have this occur at some point.

[Kastex]

i think it would be okay for the series to end after this arc, as long as we get Dragon Ball Super KAI after.

Dragon Ball Super Kai!?!

Will each arc last 5 episodes?

i was half joking about that, but for me it would be more of a remastering. they could redo everything and do better from all the shit they did in the first half or so in the series. they could also add a ton more fighting animations and make all of the fights better and more exciting. wider variety of music and sound effects, etc.

[Diggz92]

The end result I believe is that the wish on the Super Dragonballs will be that Goku never met Beerus setting off the current chain of events. It neatly resolves everything while simultaneously allowing everything to still exist and EoZ to continue as it was. This they can reboot the series easily.

It's an insult to the viewers.

The problem with BOG is that it works better as an end story rather than a way of beginning things cause how much higher can you go before things get out of hand and stop making sense ? That's what we've been seeing since RF.

Although I don't like the idea of things being rebooted, I don't know how much longer things can go before they run into a wall and we all know the franchise won't end after a few arcs.

In terms of the viewers, I agree that being invested in something like this only for the plug to be pulled for the simple reason of them not thinking ahead of time will be a big F you to anyone who's been invested in things so far. That would be like them saying "One Piece is too big to end once Luffy is king so let's have the whole thing be a dream so that we can have another adventure from scratch". If DB can't continue and this is the only way to continue it then it should just end.

I think the whole idea of it being a dream or erasing their mind has to be taken from "BLEACH" they did it when Ichigo lost his powers to sense spiritual pressure and see soul reapers. As much as that would work but then we would still run into the gods of destruction later.

[TekTheNinja]

This isn't a modern DB thing. This has been going on for some time in DB. Personally, I don't really like it myself, but Goku being miles ahead of his friends almost all the time will probably never change unfortunately.

Nope. In Z, Goku wasn't even always the strongest. He quickly regained the title of strongest every time, but still had actual competition. And back then, while you could say Goku was say, twice as strong as Krillin for example, here he isn't even in the same strength ballpark as any of the humans. And now with Ultra Instinct, I don't see how even Vegeta can even remotely keep up.

Never said he was always the strongest. You're right, Z was different from OG where Goku was king almost all the time. I liked that about Z, I didn't like that the others felt useless when he wasn't around. As for Vegeta, Vegeta has pretty much hardly ever been able to keep up since Goku left the Rosat. He's caught up to Goku on like 2 brief occasions and Goku outstripped him easily once again, and has remained above him since. I'm not saying this isn't an issue, as it is. But Goku outclassing his friends massively is nothing new. This isn't just modern DB. You left out OG in your statement which was more similar to Super than Z. Goku was above them quite a bit most of the time.

Still no. DB didn't need the rest of the cast to ever be as strong as Goku, because the others were stil capable of being useful and relevant, even if they were lacking in any fighting capability at all. Also, since the gaps were comparatively smaller back then, thus Goku wasn't miles ahead as he is now and everyone was still able to and had the chance to fight at least relatively strong opponents. No, Goku outclassing the others and becoming the strongest isn't necessarily new, but in the past, most of the cast was always able to catch up to a close standing by the very next arc. In Super, Goku is so far ahead that it is actually impossible to do that. Of course since god ki isn't saiyan exclusive, that would be the only option to get anyone else to an even decent level, but neither Toriyama nor the characters in the show seem interested in that happening for whatever reason.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Yeah hold on what I specifically called from the Champa arc is that they will reset the timeline because even before the ToP was announced the appear of Zeno God of everything and the Super Dragonballs immediate meant narratively there would be a threat which threatened pretty much every universe and that the only fix for it would be the Super Dragonballs it doesn’t take a detective to figure that out from the jump that that was he series end game. I continue and maintain Super will end with a reset. I think it will be at the end of the this tournament and this is the only time I’ve placed a timeline at the end of an arc.

Okay, you wrote two separate things in your post. Do you mean that DBSuper will reset itself by the end of the show, and no one will remember it in order to stay true to EoZ? OR, do you mean the Super Dragon Balls will bring back all the universes that are erased in the Tournament of Power?

[TheMikado]

Yeah hold on what I specifically called from the Champa arc is that they will reset the timeline because even before the ToP was announced the appear of Zeno God of everything and the Super Dragonballs immediate meant narratively there would be a threat which threatened pretty much every universe and that the only fix for it would be the Super Dragonballs it doesn’t take a detective to figure that out from the jump that that was he series end game. I continue and maintain Super will end with a reset. I think it will be at the end of the this tournament and this is the only time I’ve placed a timeline at the end of an arc.

Okay, you wrote two separate things in your post. Do you mean that DBSuper will reset itself by the end of the show, and no one will remember it in order to stay true to EoZ? OR, do you mean the Super Dragon Balls will bring back all the universes that are erased in the Tournament of Power?

So here is specifically what I predicted and when.
When Zen'o the god of everything was introduced at the end of the Champa arc, I immediately made the prediction that whatever Zen'o was involved in would require the Super Dragoballs to fix. The narrative had just introduced two large plot concepts. A means of fixing anything through the Super Dragonballs, and Zen'o god of everything. Therefore, narratively speaking, I made the assumption that whatever it was would threaten to destroy the multiple universes in order for Zen'o and the Super Dragonballs to be involved. When Zen'o showed interest in a ToP with all the universes I then immediately assumed something would happen at the tournament which would threaten multiple universes and force the use of the Super Dragonballs to undo it. I also made the assumption that whatever it was would be so massive in scale that it would have to be the climax and end to Dragonball Super.. again following the well established literary trends of structure I was making these predictions. Further, we had a major plot mechanism reveal previously in RoF. Where-by it is revealed that there are means of time "travel"/rewind which do not invoke a separate timeline. In addition the increase power inflation and confusion with the return of SSJ lead me to believe the power scaling needed to be undone. The only way to effectively remove the power inflation was to remove SSG and by extension the Beerus encounter.

Taking all these point into consideration I, at the time assumed at the end of the Champa arc:

Zen'o would hold the ToP,
There would be a multiple universe threat.
The only way to undo it would be to use the Super Dragonballs
It would remove the meeting of Goku and Beerus and all subsequent events without creating a new timeline.
It would be the end and climax of Super as a series.

Information that further bolstered this in subsequent arcs:
The reveal that Black was triggered by Godtube and by being with Beerus. Meaning removing the Champa arc also removed the cause of the Future Trunks arc.
The use of timelines and multiple timelines but also Beerus (incorrectly) stating God's don't split timelines.
The destruction of the entire timeline by Zen'o.
Trunks "unhappy" ending - would be removed and live happily without Black, thus without the Champa arc and Beerus. Trunks timeline continues to exist.

The conversation to destroy universes only occurs AFTER the two Zen'os meet. - evidenced by Trunks universe still existing 20 years in the future. so no ToP.
The fact that Zen'o is child like and easily annoyed and prone to destroy things makes undoing his erasing risking.
The fact that Zen'o is the multiple universe threat and that the prize is a wish on the Super Dragonballs for the ToP.
The characters in universe would need to find a way to undo the erasing of the universes without ticking Zen'o off or him even realizing its been done.

Which leads to my conclusion that the fix to everything is a wish that Goku and Beerus never meet.
This has the effect of undoing the tournament of power results while preserving everyone.
And restoring Trunks timeline as if Black never happened at all.
While allowing EoZ to continue as it were.

Basically, based purely on literary deduction it is the simplest, easiest method for restoration and conclusion, and a tremendous amount of setup has already been done.
I, at no point predicted that Zeno would personally destroy universes and be the threat itself, nor did I predict that the Super Dragonballs would be the prize in the ToP, although I should have guessed that because it was for the Champa arc too. Anyway this is how and why I have come to that conclusion, because from all appearances the setup is there and waiting to trigger it and I only predict it is ending because it would be the climax of the series.