Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

[LordCrumb]

Massive nostalgia feels with this episode. The animation during most of the fighting was glorious, reminded me of the Buu saga animation. Massive props to the animation department for this one.

[irreality]

That would work had Vados not stated this episode that fusion multiplies their power "dozens of times over," suggesting that it's a set multiplier. You're the only person who so far has proposed a plausible explanation, though.

So she does. "Her new body and personality are more than the sum of their parts and their power increases tens of times." It's a rather ridiculous line. It also doesn't really mesh with what was portrayed in the Buu arc. Silly inconsistent Super. You can add this line from Vados to my list of "things I disliked" about this episode.

Or, you know, Vados is just talking colloquially and is saying that their power increased by orders of magnitude by saying "tens of times" -- i.e exponential growth -- and she is not expressing a precise math formula for power levels...

In any case, a series cannot be extrapolated from a single variable anyway. If something increased from 2 to 8, it could be a cubic function (exponential), or it could be linear (times 4), and you wouldn't be able to tell without more data points.

[SuperNingenGod]

The androids supposedly have unlimited energy right? So what's stopping them from charging up Goku to the max?

[Doctor.]

If you guys consider this ep a, "terrible episode" then why even bother watching at this point?

I like other episodes. This episode doesn't represent Super as a whole, what a silly comment to make.

[mute_proxy]

The androids supposedly have unlimited energy right? So what's stopping them from charging up Goku to the max?

The unlimited energy they have is artificial. Like a battery. Not ki/genki energy.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta continues to be an arrogant asshole stuck in the Cell saga with that stupid "I'm the best Saiyan" line. They really need to STOP writing him like that. It's no longer "badass", it's just annoying, empty bragging that means nothing and actually makes him look clinically delusional.

Does Vegeta bragging make him an asshole or Cell Vegeta? I guess I just don’t see it. I mean obviously he isn’t the best Saiyan lol but Vegeta is always going to be a bit arrogant. It’s just part of his character I guess. Cell Vegeta wasn’t just arrogant he only cared about himself. There is a big difference.


However I do think certain writers struggle with Vegeta. This episode was written by the same writer who wrote that Vegeta wouldn’t give his energy to Goku. Another scene I disliked. Maybe not the best writer for Vegeta. And I also think Vegeta suffers the most in this arc when he just has a small scene here or there.

Compare it to how Vegeta is written when he gets more focus. He’s still arrogant but we see more sides of his personality not just that arrogant side & we see he actually cares (about Roshi, about Cabba, or even Goku when he jumped in to help against U9 even though he said he wasn’t helping)

Anyways I agree with your sentiment that I don’t like when Vegeta is written like this (I just try to stay amused at it) but hate the sentiment that every time Vegeta isn’t perfect he’s regressed back to Cell Vegeta.

Its's the delusional way he goes about flaunting his arrogance that reminds me of the Cell saga. He just saw Goku achieve a form never before seen that FAR surpasses him, and yet he's still dropping lines about how he's the best and he's ready to kick ass and all this. Like, dude, give it up. You aren't fooling anyone. It gives me the same vibes as when he was was getting his arm broken by 18 and getting surpassed by Piccolo, and still he was going on and on about how he's hot shit.

But Vegeta bragging and being a bit arrogant doesn’t make him Cell! Vegeta that is what I mean. It’s just words. I really wish people would stop saying that. Vegeta was a completely different character in the Cell Saga. Boasting a bit really wasn’t the main problem.

And the difference here is he can see how strong Jiren & Goku are. He had no idea how strong Cell or the Androids were. In this episode he also showed that he can feel the power of Kefla. I doubt he’s delusionsal at all. What Vegeta says and what he truly feels are not always necessarily the same thing. But bragging & having confidence in himself well that’s just Vegeta. And well I don’t think the writers always do Vegeta justice when he only appears for a quick scene here & there. He’s gets much more depth obviously when he gets more scenes. That is why he is better written in episodes that focus on him.

Does this mean I think Vegeta will always make the smartest decision when it comes to who he fights? Probably not! He is Saiyajin after all which will probably compel him to fight the strongest (Jiren in this case) if given the opportunity even if he can’t win. That’s just how it is.

[_FutureTrunks_]

Guys, for me this episode had one of the best animation in whole Dragon Ball Super series.

I actually think it is the best in the whole franchise, maybe I'm remembering wrong so if there is a better episode let me check it out.

Maybe yes. But if i remember correctly, the episode with Goku and Vegeta Fusion (Vegeto) vs Zamasu and Black Goku Fusion had a bit better animation i think.

[_FutureTrunks_]

And i forgot the music was also absolutely brilliant in this episode!

[SuperNingenGod]

The androids supposedly have unlimited energy right? So what's stopping them from charging up Goku to the max?

The unlimited energy they have is artificial. Like a battery. Not ki/genki energy.

But they still offered their genki for the spirit bomb no? Since they can obviously shoot energy balls, I'm sure they're able to convert their battery power to ki/genki in certain ways?

[Li'l Lemmy]

The episode was a slog, in my opinion, like most of the ToP- in this case, a pointless repeat of the previous episode- and further cements my disdain for Caulifla. I am so tired of her crap, and I can't wait until she's in the stands.

Beautiful visuals, though.

[Kinokima]

And i forgot the music was also absolutely brilliant in this episode!

Totally agree there was some really great music used.

[mute_proxy]

The androids supposedly have unlimited energy right? So what's stopping them from charging up Goku to the max?

The unlimited energy they have is artificial. Like a battery. Not ki/genki energy.

But they still offered their genki for the spirit bomb no? Since they can obviously shoot energy balls, I'm sure they're able to convert their battery power to ki/genki in certain ways?

They're not robots, they're modified humans. Their human side still has ki and what not.

[Kataphrut]

And i forgot the music was also absolutely brilliant in this episode!

Oh, it was stellar. The new (I think?) track used at the start of Goku vs Caulifla and Kale was great. It synced up with the action beautifully. And they reused Hit's theme from the Dyspo fight again for Kefla's powerup, which is becoming my favourite new Super track. It was used to good effect here, as well as the scene where Frost redirects the Mafuba at Vegeta in 107. I don't know if it's been named yet, so until further notice I'm calling it the "Universe 6 does something lit" song. Or "Hit is Lit," since he started it.

[Tombstone1988]

Or, you know, Vados is just talking colloquially and is saying that their power increased by orders of magnitude by saying "tens of times" -- i.e exponential growth -- and she is not expressing a precise math formula for power levels...

And so you know, it is possible for Vados to talk informally without using phrases that convey set values. Words like "significantly," "dramatically," "substantially," etc. convey the same meaning without any of the mess. Also, you seem to think I care about this one line more than I actually do. It really isn't that a big deal to me.

In any case, a series cannot be extrapolated from a single variable anyway. If something increased from 2 to 8, it could be a cubic function (exponential), or it could be linear (times 4), and you wouldn't be able to tell without more data points.

With this part of your post, I feel like you either didn't read my initial post to Doctor or ignored the meaning/purpose of it. Doctor was discussing his thoughts on why he thought this episode failed as it makes potara fusion seem more powerful than the SSG boost, which was not the case at the beginning of Super. I proposed a theory (key word here) that fusion may be exponential in growth as a possible explanation to answer how potara fusion could be more powerful now than it was then. Again, it's a concept, not an exact graphed series.

[Onibaku]

I'm really confused as to why people think this had the best animation of whole DBS? Is that sarcasm or..

[Noah]

I'm really confused as to why people think this had the best animation of whole DBS? Is that sarcasm or...

Many people here confuse animation with art (myself included a time ago), what they want to say is that this episode was the best looking in this series.

[mAcChaos]

^People tend to say "animation" when they really mean "well drawn art."

And it certainly did.

As for the Potara, the increase is different for each fusion because it's a multiplication. So maybe Cauli and Kale's fusion only gave them a tens of times boost because of their differences. ie, 10 x 2 = 20, which would fit a "tens of times" boost. But 200 x 200 like Goku and Vegeta would be much more.

[PsionicWarrior]

^People tend to say "animation" when they really mean "well drawn art."

Wow really? Because these are two very different things lol

[dbzfan7]

If you guys consider this ep a, "terrible episode" then why even bother watching at this point?

I like other episodes. This episode doesn't represent Super as a whole, what a silly comment to make.

Dude you're not allowed to have an opinion. You can't just enjoy other episodes of Super and hate other episodes too. You either love it all or hate it all. If you dislike just one episode, you're a hater who hates all episodes and all of Super.

[mAcChaos]

^People tend to say "animation" when they really mean "well drawn art."

Wow really? Because these are two very different things lol

I guarantee that if you go look over such comments, 9 times out of 10 the complaint will really be about off-model drawings, or things like that.