Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Gafonso6 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:44 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
OverHeaven wrote:Can someone tell me what's the deal with these shitty introduction segments that started to appear since this mini-arc started? Like, is this supposed to hype us more for the episode or what? Not only they almost always show the most important stuff in the preview, but they also want to spoil you even when you're literally going to see these scenes in few minutes, just in case you somehow avoided the spoilers and the preview. Toei is full of shit as usual, though I would understand it more if it was a show that follows a manga.

Right? Who the hell was that announcer guy even supposed to be?
That was a special appearence from the opening's singer.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by OverHeaven » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Spider-Man wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: Right? Who the hell was that announcer guy even supposed to be?
I thought he'd be one of the Toei staff that works on the anime at least, this just makes it even more completely random and stupid.

Anyway, let's talk about the Ultra Instinct. Of course, just like most if not all of you, I think it's a great and badass technique. Finally, I get excited when a new form appears again (or technique whatever). It certainly feels special and of a higher level leagues above all of the other transformation.Unlike SSB's first embracing laughable debut. I would be lying If I said the last few minutes weren't the best part of the episode just because of it.

But didn't he use it again like, way too fast?!!! Don't get me wrong, just like I said earlier I don't care about logic anymore in this series. The problem is, I feel or almost certain that by the end of this arc, or maybe the next one. Goku will spam the shit out of it like Blue, and that it will lose its greatness and hype eventually because of that.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:06 pm

perucho1990 wrote:I dont understand why Yashima did the storyboard for episode 115, add also Kitano animation, did Toei forget how much of a failure episode 33 was when both men worked together that time?

And yes Yashima should never storyboard ever again, its not his strength.

The director was the same one from episode 93 and 99, so it wasnt really his fault.

Anyways Kalefla is done next week.
Nobody else is available and they have a small schedule to keep. As such, whoever is available is whoever is available and will then work on the episode.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Artorias » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:30 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Artorias wrote:And thus, Super ends it's streak of good episodes. Twas fun while it lasted I guess. Hopefully a new streak begins next week.
I'd have never guessed that there was a good streak at all based solely on the Kanzenshuu forums' most vocal reactions :lol:
Well, I certainly don't come here expecting much positivity, especially as of late.

Also, I'm talking "good" by Super standards. If you compare even the special to other shows, it's like a 7/10.
Last edited by Artorias on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:42 pm

Alright... Who wins? Base Vegito or SSJ Kefla? :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:44 pm

OverHeaven wrote:
Spider-Man wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: Right? Who the hell was that announcer guy even supposed to be?
I thought he'd be one of the Toei staff that works on the anime at least, this just makes it even more completely random and stupid.
It makes perfect sense. Remember, the CD single for Limit Break x Survivor was just released.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:53 pm

JazzMazz wrote: But what if it doesn't? What if its just him re-achieving the form/state to beat an opponent just to show he can?

Narratively, I think it would make far more sense if the fight against Kelfa happened way down the line, you could have had all the universe 2,3 and 4 stuff happen between Goku slowly recovering before facing her. The re-introduction of UI could have then lead into the final act of the tournament and battle with Jiren.
It's kind of pointless to argue about plot points that haven't happened yet. Especially when you don't know how the story will play. For the most part, people have been wrong about how UI would be used or about Jiren fighting was 'too soon'.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Artorias » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:59 pm

Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:04 pm

Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
First Goku was a weakling dumbass who using Blue for everything and have trouble with fodder like U9, and after 110 Goku is too badass. I find this amusing.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Whatever » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:40 pm

HeroR wrote:
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
First Goku was a weakling dumbass who using Blue for everything and have trouble with fodder like U9, and after 110 Goku is too badass. I find this amusing.
I mean he was a dumbass for using Blue despite not needing to against U9 and screwing around in base when he could go super saiyan and end this in a few seconds(which he did anyways making the fighting he did in base form a waste of time).
But even against U9 he was never shown as a weakling.
UI(or the form that comes long with it) is pretty much a DEM thing now,which he go whenever he is in trouble and save himself.
Oh did i mention Goku did the technique GODS have trouble with while tired despite having no idea how to do it?

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:46 pm

Whatever wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
First Goku was a weakling dumbass who using Blue for everything and have trouble with fodder like U9, and after 110 Goku is too badass. I find this amusing.
I mean he was a dumbass for using Blue despite not needing to against U9 and screwing around in base when he could go super saiyan and end this in a few seconds(which he did anyways making the fighting he did in base form a waste of time).
But even against U9 he was never shown as a weakling.
UI(or the form that comes long with it) is pretty much a DEM thing now,which he go whenever he is in trouble and save himself.
Oh did i mention Goku did the technique GODS have trouble with while tired despite having no idea how to do it?
Isn't like Goku has any control of it and we went months with 'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan got Nerf!", not it's overpowered again.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by omaro34 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:14 pm

Not much to say about this episode that hasn't been said. Hopefully this fight between Goku and Kefla will end soon, their fight this week was lackluster at best. The decision to play that soundtrack which was used with Goku against Jiren shouldn't have been used either, that's just me.

Give us more with the universe six Namekians. First they wait forever to actually introduce them, then they tease us with thirty seconds of action for several episodes now. I know patience is key but good lord.

Goku dodging Kefla's attacks in slow motion at the end were pretty cool. 18 might be the one to get eliminated next.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:21 pm

As an aside, this episode is really funny because they try hard narratively to sell this as some super tense battle where Goku's once again pushed to his limits but boy is the writing and animation not there to support it. A lot of the issue is that Goku just freaking had a super tough battle where he was pushed past his limits so trying to do it again just feels forced.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:32 pm

Artorias wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Artorias wrote:And thus, Super ends it's streak of good episodes. Twas fun while it lasted I guess. Hopefully a new streak begins next week.
I'd have never guessed that there was a good streak at all based solely on the Kanzenshuu forums' most vocal reactions :lol:
Well, I certainly don't come here expecting much positivity, especially as of late.

Also, I'm talking "good" by Super standards. If you compare even the special to other shows, it's like a 7/10.
Depends what we're classifying it by. As far as entertainment value goes, I find it superior to many episodes of other modern shows right now.
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
I don't have a problem with them making him look badass at all. But I do agree they made him look a bit better than Kafla here. I fully expected Kafla to body him for the most part (and I wouldn't have had any problem with it), but Goku kept that fight competitive. As for him losing to Jiren, he shrugs off most of his Ls in the series, doing so with Jiren's no different.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Jigurashi wrote:
Artorias wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: I'd have never guessed that there was a good streak at all based solely on the Kanzenshuu forums' most vocal reactions :lol:
Well, I certainly don't come here expecting much positivity, especially as of late.

Also, I'm talking "good" by Super standards. If you compare even the special to other shows, it's like a 7/10.
Depends what we're classifying it by. As far as entertainment value goes, I find it superior to many episodes of other modern shows right now.
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
I don't have a problem with them making him look badass at all. But I do agree they made him look a bit better than Kafla here. I fully expected Kafla to body him for the most part (and I wouldn't have had any problem with it), but Goku kept that fight competitive. As for him losing to Jiren, he shrugs off most of his Ls in the series, doing so with Jiren's no different.

He was salty when Jiren looked at him and told him he wasn't worth his time. I also don't think Kelfia was going all out since the NEP makes her look more impressive. Too bad it's against UI Goku.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:02 pm

There was some massive cognitive dissonance going for me this episode when they made SSB Goku out to be such a huge deal even though he's used it several times in the tournament either to take out trash or just because he felt like it (and wanted to go to a higher form and then sandbag a metric ton apparently), but now it's super cereal, guys, he's not holding back this time (even though he's also almost completely exhausted), we have to tell you that, guys, because it looks exactly the same as every other time he's gone Blue and those times nobody cared, but, guys, GUYS, THIS TIME, this time, guys, oh my gee, it's so powerful, you guys!

We have Berserker Kale stomp on SSB like 10 episodes ago or something, but Goku was holding back. But now, Goku is more exhausted than we've seen him since he got wrecked by Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga, but now, he is apparently not holding back at all and fights evenly with an even stronger Controlled Berserk Kale using only his God form. Clearly both Kale and Caulifla are much weaker than we thought or Goku is much stronger than we thought, or both, but then we get Kefla and exhausted Goku (who is, apparently, using WAY more power than he did earlier in the tournament every other time he used Blue for no reason) goes Blue and kind of stalemates her (though now Kefla is sandbagging). Goku uses Kaioken (likely x2) and is stronger than her, but, because he's tired (I guess?) Kefla takes him out. Okay, here's what makes no sense to me. Why is everyone so hype for THIS usage of Goku Blue? Even Vegeta was excited. It makes no sense. Vegeta's fighting in Blue as he hypes Goku Blue! Vegeta's fighting a dude that Goku used SSBKK against! By all rights, Vegeta is fighting a character that is provably as strong if not stronger than Kefla, but nobody gives a shit about that. Hit is like 5 to 10 times stronger than Kefla, but nobody lost their minds about Hit! Make up your minds, Super writers! In-universe, there is no reason for the characters to react the way they are if Kefla is only as strong as Toppo if not weaker. When Goku holds back 90% of his power when he's not tired at all and loses because he's holding back, but then he gets serious when his back is against the wall and even though he's tired as shit he's able to throw a TON more power around than he has any other time in the tournament (with the exception of his fight with Jiren), but he still loses, that makes it very difficult for me to take the show seriously. So Goku loses because he's holding back, then he actually goes all out against someone, even achieves a new, more powerful form, he loses, then he's exhausted but goes all out with whatever power he has left, somehow it's more than the power he had when he was holding back earlier in the tournament, but don't worry, he still loses. If he weren't the only hope of defeating Jiren, I'd start to wonder why he's even in the tournament considering Gohan, Freeza, 17, or Vegeta could have handled every one of Goku's actual eliminations, as well as how poorly Goku's actually fought against any foes he didn't eliminate.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:10 pm

As someone who likes episodes focused on Goku, and who also likes episodes focused on Kale and Caulifla, and the interactions between them, I think I've figured out why this episode drew the line for me on as much as I'm willing to take.

I could get invested in 113 and 114 because the idea was that Goku was tired and basically sparring with them. It wasn't a serious fight, so let's just lie back and see where it takes the characters. The end result was some solid development for all three, the payoff of Kale gaining control in 114 and the legitimately awesome reveal of Kefla at the end.

The problem with 115 is now it's a serious fight between two equals and I'm reminded "oh yeah, it's Goku". So my investment goes out the window because I know he has to survive. It also becomes more and more ridiculous to see Goku pulling out his highest level forms to fight Kefla, when he's supposed to be saving his strength. A better way to do this would've been to have Goku simply unable to fight her (say, he doesn't have the stamina for Blue yet, so he's as good as useless) and have Freeza take over the battle while Goku recedes into the background to wait for Jiren to get off his arse. Freeza versus Kefla is a fight I can get invested in. I hope we get that instead.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:15 pm

HeroR wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Well, I certainly don't come here expecting much positivity, especially as of late.

Also, I'm talking "good" by Super standards. If you compare even the special to other shows, it's like a 7/10.
Depends what we're classifying it by. As far as entertainment value goes, I find it superior to many episodes of other modern shows right now.
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
I don't have a problem with them making him look badass at all. But I do agree they made him look a bit better than Kafla here. I fully expected Kafla to body him for the most part (and I wouldn't have had any problem with it), but Goku kept that fight competitive. As for him losing to Jiren, he shrugs off most of his Ls in the series, doing so with Jiren's no different.

He was salty when Jiren looked at him and told him he wasn't worth his time. I also don't think Kelfia was going all out since the NEP makes her look more impressive. Too bad it's against UI Goku.
Really a doomed situation Kafla's in. She turns up the heat but it's against UI Goku of all opponents lol.
Ziegander wrote:There was some massive cognitive dissonance going for me this episode when they made SSB Goku out to be such a huge deal even though he's used it several times in the tournament either to take out trash or just because he felt like it (and wanted to go to a higher form and then sandbag a metric ton apparently), but now it's super cereal, guys, he's not holding back this time (even though he's also almost completely exhausted), we have to tell you that, guys, because it looks exactly the same as every other time he's gone Blue and those times nobody cared, but, guys, GUYS, THIS TIME, this time, guys, oh my gee, it's so powerful, you guys!

We have Berserker Kale stomp on SSB like 10 episodes ago or something, but Goku was holding back. But now, Goku is more exhausted than we've seen him since he got wrecked by Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga, but now, he is apparently not holding back at all and fights evenly with an even stronger Controlled Berserk Kale using only his God form. Clearly both Kale and Caulifla are much weaker than we thought or Goku is much stronger than we thought, or both, but then we get Kefla and exhausted Goku (who is, apparently, using WAY more power than he did earlier in the tournament every other time he used Blue for no reason) goes Blue and kind of stalemates her (though now Kefla is sandbagging). Goku uses Kaioken (likely x2) and is stronger than her, but, because he's tired (I guess?) Kefla takes him out. Okay, here's what makes no sense to me. Why is everyone so hype for THIS usage of Goku Blue? Even Vegeta was excited. It makes no sense. Vegeta's fighting in Blue as he hypes Goku Blue! Vegeta's fighting a dude that Goku used SSBKK against! By all rights, Vegeta is fighting a character that is provably as strong if not stronger than Kefla, but nobody gives a shit about that. Hit is like 5 to 10 times stronger than Kefla, but nobody lost their minds about Hit! Make up your minds, Super writers! In-universe, there is no reason for the characters to react the way they are if Kefla is only as strong as Toppo if not weaker. When Goku holds back 90% of his power when he's not tired at all and loses because he's holding back, but then he gets serious when his back is against the wall and even though he's tired as shit he's able to throw a TON more power around than he has any other time in the tournament (with the exception of his fight with Jiren), but he still loses, that makes it very difficult for me to take the show seriously. So Goku loses because he's holding back, then he actually goes all out against someone, even achieves a new, more powerful form, he loses, then he's exhausted but goes all out with whatever power he has left, somehow it's more than the power he had when he was holding back earlier in the tournament, but don't worry, he still loses. If he weren't the only hope of defeating Jiren, I'd start to wonder why he's even in the tournament considering Gohan, Freeza, 17, or Vegeta could have handled every one of Goku's actual eliminations, as well as how poorly Goku's actually fought against any foes he didn't eliminate.
His performance with people he hasn't eliminate really hasn't been all that poor tbh. Outside of Tupper, Jiren, and the robots who attacked him right after his bout with Jiren, I can't really recall him looking all that poorly. He had the edge on Ganos, he beat Rozie with her own move, got out of Maji's bind the moment he gave a damn about Maji in the first place, he wasn't really struggling with Ribrianne and did fine against her, he beat both Caulifla and Kale and forced them to fuse. His performance isn't really all that poor imo.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Olympian » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:29 pm

HeroR wrote:
Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.
First Goku was a weakling dumbass who using Blue for everything and have trouble with fodder like U9, and after 110 Goku is too badass. I find this amusing.
He`s already awarded too much, if being a dumbass is the only way anyone else is allowed to do anything, so be it. No major loss.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Michsi » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:35 pm

Artorias wrote:Does anyone else feel that they're making Goku look...too badass in this tournament? It never feels like he's in danger or TRULY struggling. Like, Goku comes out of the episode that INTRODUCES a FUSED character looking better than the fused character.

It's like the writers are afraid to have Goku show any vulnerability. And yes I know he lost to Jiren, but they still kinda made him just shrug it off and get right back into the swing of things. It's just...weird to see your main protagonist never really appear to be in any sort of true danger.

It's an odd combination for sure. On one had, I know he is supposed to be struggling ,yet at the same time, I have a hard time buying it. He got punched through rock, slammed against the ground, tossed all over the arena, and every single time he got up looking no worse for wear.
Kefla looked so ominous in the last episode, but now, she was just another cocky opponent that's giving Goku a little trouble.
I think I would've much rather preferred to have Goku steamroll his opponents until his first fight with Jiren, would've made his defeat more meaningful, never mind his battle with the girls.

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