Scenes that the Anime did better than the Manga

Katalyst · Post by **Katalyst** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:30 pm

Rocketman wrote:
RockerJeri wrote:Remember that Gohan is at least 1,000,000 or so more powerful then Goku. So then why is it that when Gohan fights Cell, his "fight" seems much more weaker then the one between Goku and Cell? Its bs, man, it makes Gohan look weaker then Goku. =[
He is weaker. He has the fighting spirit of a wet noodle soaked in water until it barely resembles a noodle. A pebble is tougher than Gohan, because you could conceivably trip on a rock and stub your toe, while Gohan would yield like so much melted pudding. Vanilla pudding. Because he's too pansy-ass to have a strong flavor if he was pudding. Pure water has more flavor than hypothetical Gohan-pudding.

.... I think I lost where I was going there.

That was beautiful.

SaiyamanMS · Post by **SaiyamanMS** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:25 am

Herms wrote:Actually, having Tenshinhan use the Mafuba against Drum* was one of my favorite changes made in the anime, aside from the inconsistency in Tenshinhan not dieing after using it.

Well, I figured the logic there was that the more powerful the demon the more the attack drains you. Drum wasn't a powerful enough demon to completely drain Tenshinhan of his life force. Similar to how the Kikoho can end the user's life if they overuse it too much.

Anyway, I recently started rewatching the anime from the start and just finished the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai... I have to admit that I enjoyed a lot of the filler with Pilaf's group before Bulma's group arrives at his castle. More Pilaf is always a good thing! Also, the scene at the bar after Goku's match against Giran is postponed was nice too, especially since we get to see a bit more of the Orin Temple Monks that Kuririn used to train with.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:21 pm

While they do mess up battle strengths and such often in the Anime, I am not entirely certain that the battles at the Cell game were messed up. Here's how I always looked at it.

Goku's life was one of naivety, yet it called for a great deal of fighting and violence. He was a Saiyan, and he grew to love it, thrive on it.

Gohan's life was an innocent one as well, but he was much more intelligent due to education, and overall thinking capability. He was forced to fight, never really had an option like his father did, and although he was half Saiyan, and gained great power, he never enjoyed it. It seems the only points he enjoys it somewhat are when he trains with his Father, and only then because it is what his father loves.

Goku could be outmatched, and outclassed, but he was sometimes too stubborn and just plain dumb to give up. He never would have lasted long enough against Freeza to become a Super Saiyan if he'd given up hope like the rest, he almost did a couple of times, but he'd just get up and keep at it. It helped him as much as it hindered him.

Gohan would fight hard, he had his father's get up and go at it again mentality, but he would reason out in his mind that he could not win sometimes and give up sooner than Goku ever would.

At the Cell game, Goku for the first time knew he could not win, and accepted it. He wanted to fight Cell anyway, and gave it his all, just to be sure. The episodes reflect that, he's seen lots of combat, and trained hard to be able to go toe to toe with Cell at that point.

Gohan still isn't sure that this stuff about him being stronger than Goku is true, and he doesn't delight in fighting like his Father. His fight as Full Power Super Saiyan reflects this. Sure he can fight, and withstand blows as well as Goku did, if not better, but he wasn't giving it the same intensity. Goku had trained him well at that point, and he had the fighting form and skill to win, he just wasn't using it completely yet. He still thought he could talk Cell down or something ridiculous like that.

Notice though, that Gohan slacks off after the fight with Cell because he really never liked fighting. Piccolo kidnapped him as a child and forced him to. Most other times it was to help friends, or because the situation called for it. Although he became close with Piccolo, fighting was still something he did because he had to, never because he enjoyed it.

That was long winded but explains why those scenes and fights were the way they were. I agree the Anime screws that stuff up a LOT, but I don't think the Cell game was one of those instances when it came to those two fights. The Goku vs. Cell was done well IMO, but the reporter man and Mr. Satan interupting that awesome fight every three minutes was done poorly. It irritates me to watch that fight, just because you have to put up with so many breaks in the action for that comedic, yet timed poorly sideshow that interupts just a bit too often for my taste.

RockerJeri · Post by **RockerJeri** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:31 am

A more akin answer would be Goku is as tall as Cell, so thus he'd be a better match up for Cell then Gohan =[

Since were speaking of power level inconsistences...

Cell vs. Mr Saten

Cell hits Hercule once and Hercule doesn't die? Wow... Cell is like over 1,000,000 (more then an frikkin nuclear bomb) and yet Hercule survives (?Hercule is like what ... 120?)

Now what kind of bs was that?

Akira Toriyama angers me once again ha ha

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:41 am

RockerJeri wrote:(?Mr. Satan is like what ... 120?)

The Daizenshuu lists Goku at a power level of 10 in the beginning of Dragonball. Goku took a bullet to the head and didn't die. Mr. Satan was nearly killed by one of the murdering men in the Boo Arc after being shot.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:13 am

Tyro wrote:
RockerJeri wrote:(?Mr. Satan is like what ... 120?)
The Daizenshuu lists Goku at a power level of 10 in the beginning of Dragonball. Goku took a bullet to the head and didn't die. Mr. Satan was nearly killed by one of the murdering men in the Boo Arc after being shot.

Not sure if that would count as it was still in the Goku similar to Daffy and Wile days.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:36 am

Roshi caught machine gun fire with no trouble and he's 139.

SaiyamanMS · Post by **SaiyamanMS** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:05 am

Well, my rewatching of the series is now upto just before the second Tao Pai Pai fight... So, I shall proceed to bring up another filler moment which was better than the manga!

The introduction of the Red Ribbon Army.

In the manga, I think Goku just turned up and found a Dragonball which two inept soldiers were having trouble finding... Right? Then Goku has a short fight with Silver and it's off to Muscle Tower!

The anime's version of events introduces the Red Ribbon Army as a much more threatening force by putting them up against both Goku and our previous villain Pilaf, while also bringing back Chichi and the Ox King. Amidst this chaos, Silver's men manage to track down Pilaf and secure the Dragonball, with Goku being unable to stop them.

And of course, as I said in my last post...

More Pilaf is always a good thing!

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:59 am

Super Sonic wrote:
Tyro wrote:
RockerJeri wrote:(?Mr. Satan is like what ... 120?)
The Daizenshuu lists Goku at a power level of 10 in the beginning of Dragonball. Goku took a bullet to the head and didn't die. Mr. Satan was nearly killed by one of the murdering men in the Boo Arc after being shot.
Not sure if that would count as it was still in the Goku similar to Daffy and Wile days.

Plus, if this means anything, that probably wasn't a very high-calibre pistol Bulma was using, whereas the jerks in the Buu saga were using sniper rifles.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:12 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:that probably wasn't a very high-calibre pistol Bulma was using

Proof that there's speculation that it wasn't a high-calibre gun?

What about Lunch's machine gun she shot Goku, Kuririn and Muten Roshi with? Kuririn is even weaker than Goku.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:38 am

Tyro wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:that probably wasn't a very high-calibre pistol Bulma was using
Proof that there's speculation that it wasn't a high-calibre gun?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:49 am

Tyro wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:that probably wasn't a very high-calibre pistol Bulma was using
Proof that there's speculation that it wasn't a high-calibre gun?

What about Lunch's machine gun she shot Goku, Kuririn and Muten Roshi with? Kuririn is even weaker than Goku.

Like I mentioned, it was kinda like Daffy and Wile.

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:29 pm

I personally liked the little addition near the end of the Tao Pai-Pai vs. Goku re-match when Tao actually goes up Karin Tower himself, but instead of trying to grab the "holy water" from him like Goku did, he simply took it through force. This works well especially since you'd be comparing how Goku got the water the "right way" to Tao getting it the "wrong way."

And Karin actually having an evil Kintoun that he summons to get Tao back down from the tower is just awesome

.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:38 pm

Yeah, on the Cell Saga thing, I don't think it showed Goku out to be stronger than Gohan. How does Gohan's fight end (before SSJ2)? He gives up. Then when the Cell Jrs are wrecking his friends and family, he sits on his ass like Vegeta in movie 8. So clearly his heart wasn't in it yet. Remember, this is the same kid who was like nothing to Rikum, yet when sufficiently angered he put the fear of god into Freeza while in his 3rd form. The way I see it, Gohan has exactly two modes of operation when it comes to serious combat- "I don't want to do this" or "You're fucking dead." That is until the Buu Saga and his power up where he seems to finally strike a balance. As for Goku seeming stronger than he should, I actually thought the Cell fight was done well. My favorite culprit for this sort of thing is his going to blows with Buu after the Gohan absorption, or his walking all over Kid Buu (even completely incinerating him) while in SSJ2.

Oh, and on Mr. Satan... guys, he can't use ki. Granted, the bus-pulling puts him above average, but 120? That's close to Muten. Muten's trained for decades in ki control and can even blow up the moon.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:25 pm

I just don't care for Gohan (especially whiny, irritating Cell-saga Gohan) always getting the edge over the other demi-Saiyans.

As for stuff I love in the anime over the manga: The extended scene where Goku is gathering power for the final Genki Dama and we see Lunch, the King, etc.

bardock013 · Post by **bardock013** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:27 pm

I think in some fights (like Goku vs. Freeza, for example) they did a pretty good job expanding it from the original manga. I recently bought season 3 and I thought that particular fight was very good.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:55 am

Easy choice for me:

The very beginning of the 23rd Budokai, where the gang all meets again for the first time in years. In the anime, Bulma is shown standing outside in the rain waiting for everyone to show up. A small child is seen in the background, struggling to reach a balloon that had gotten out of his hands and became stuck in a tree. You see a hand grab the balloon, and then return it to the child. It's Goku, and guess what, he's grown up! It's really a great scene.

In the manga, you just see Bulma standing out in the rain, and then Goku just shows up and says "Hey!" or something like that. Not nearly as effective.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:51 pm

I think the Dragonball Z Anime ACTION was just overall better than the Manga's.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:59 pm

Well yeah, there's a difference between seeing everything happening in real time than seeing like 3 still photos. I have one Manga really, it is Perfect Cell/Cell Games. Starts off with Trunks powering up to the ascended form and ends when Mr. Satan is about to "battle" Cell. It is in Japanese. I mean not to knock the Manga, but there is SO much less than in the Anime. I mean 3 episodes on the Anime is like 2 pages of the Manga...like 6 pictures. That's pretty bad. I know everyone hails the Manga as the bible on this, but I'd rather watch the action and personally not give a damn if they got some "filler" scenes incorrect. I don't look at DBZ as rocket science, I don't need to think logically about it. How can people try to logically piece together something from a series that is FILLED with illogic things?

ssorcd · Post by **ssorcd** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:37 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Well yeah, there's a difference between seeing everything happening in real time than seeing like 3 still photos. I have one Manga really, it is Perfect Cell/Cell Games. Starts off with Trunks powering up to the ascended form and ends when Mr. Satan is about to "battle" Cell. It is in Japanese. I mean not to knock the Manga, but there is SO much less than in the Anime. I mean 3 episodes on the Anime is like 2 pages of the Manga...like 6 pictures.

Sometimes thats good but other times its really tedious and dragged out. Like when Trunks spent 4 straight episodes powering up only to find out he couldn't beat Cell. However DVD and digital media makes it more tolerable since you can fast forward through less interesting parts.

Kanzenshuu

Scenes that the Anime did better than the Manga

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