"Full Power"?

[Tyro]

I've had a question that's been bugging me for a while now. Nappa and Vegeta couldn't suppress their ki, so all they had were 'base', 'powered up' and 'full power' states. Well...how didn't they get tired after powering up and fighting at 'powered up' levels?

Take Nappa for example. He spent 3+ hours in a powered up state (first power up, to be specific). We don't see him power down after Vegeta tells him to wait for Goku to show up. Then, we don't see him power up and get a lightning engulfed aura (no SSj2 jokes, please) when Vegeta tells him to keep fighting. So I assume he just remained in the powered up state.

Another example is Vegeta on Namek. After reaching his full power of 24,000, he runs around Namek fighting Dodoria, a Namekian village, and Zarbon. Never once do we see him power down or up. I'm assuming he was at full power for the duration of time we see him before getting beaten by Zarbon in "monster" form.

Does being at one's "full power" not eventually take a toll on the body? Are Nappa's and Vegeta's power ups like being in one's base state, only not? Help? Thanks in advance.

[the_abberration]

I've had a question that's been bugging me for a while now. Nappa and Vegeta couldn't suppress their ki, so all they had were 'base', 'powered up' and 'full power' states. Well...how didn't they get tired after powering up and fighting at 'powered up' levels?

Take Nappa for example. He spent 3+ hours in a powered up state (first power up, to be specific). We don't see him power down after Vegeta tells him to wait for Goku to show up. Then, we don't see him power up and get a lightning engulfed aura (no SSj2 jokes, please) when Vegeta tells him to keep fighting. So I assume he just remained in the powered up state. .

Another example is Vegeta on Namek. After reaching his full power of 24,000, he runs around Namek fighting Dodoria, a Namekian village, and Zarbon. Never once do we see him power down or up. I'm assuming he was at full power for the duration of time we see him before getting beaten by Zarbon in "monster" form.

Does being at one's "full power" not eventually take a toll on the body? Are Nappa's and Vegeta's power ups like being in one's base state, only not? Help? Thanks in advance..

If I understand your question correctly, this analogy may help...or not.

Look at it like a car. Base = Idle, Powered up = Stepping on gas, Full Power = Going at top speed. Basically (to me), supressing your ki is like being able to go top speed, but driving so the radar (scouter) clocks you at 55. Not having the ability to supress it means if you speed up to 70 the radar clocks you at 70. Take you foot off the gas to your speed decreases accordingly.

Hope that helps

[Xyex]

I've had a question that's been bugging me for a while now. Nappa and Vegeta couldn't suppress their ki, so all they had were 'base', 'powered up' and 'full power' states. Well...how didn't they get tired after powering up and fighting at 'powered up' levels?

Take Nappa for example. He spent 3+ hours in a powered up state (first power up, to be specific). We don't see him power down after Vegeta tells him to wait for Goku to show up. Then, we don't see him power up and get a lightning engulfed aura (no SSj2 jokes, please) when Vegeta tells him to keep fighting. So I assume he just remained in the powered up state. .

Another example is Vegeta on Namek. After reaching his full power of 24,000, he runs around Namek fighting Dodoria, a Namekian village, and Zarbon. Never once do we see him power down or up. I'm assuming he was at full power for the duration of time we see him before getting beaten by Zarbon in "monster" form.

Does being at one's "full power" not eventually take a toll on the body? Are Nappa's and Vegeta's power ups like being in one's base state, only not? Help? Thanks in advance..

Nah, I think those were just instances of "We've shown it once, why show it again?" Just like how everyone gets a flashy first (seen) SSJ transformation and then can just go *snap* and they're transformed. Like Trunks vs. Cyborg Freeza and then 3 hours later against Goku. Or Gohan and Krillin against Guldo and then a little later against Freeza. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If I understand your question correctly, this analogy may help...or not.

Look at it like a car. Base = Idle, Powered up = Stepping on gas, Full Power = Going at top speed. Basically (to me), supressing your ki is like being able to go top speed, but driving so the radar (scouter) clocks you at 55. Not having the ability to supress it means if you speed up to 70 the radar clocks you at 70. Take you foot off the gas to your speed decreases accordingly.

Hope that helps

I don't really think that comparison works. Going with that comparison the average person always runs at a certain speed. So you're always going at 50 (ie, always putting out a power of 50 that can be sensed/detected). If you can supress your Ki, though, that's like taking your foot off the gas and slowing down. If you could still fight at full power but make it look like you've only got a power of 5 then we'd never have scouters exploding and stuff.

[the_abberration]

If you could still fight at full power but make it look like you've only got a power of 5 then we'd never have scouters exploding and stuff.

Similar to when Goku first confronted the Ginyu force??

[Xyex]

If you could still fight at full power but make it look like you've only got a power of 5 then we'd never have scouters exploding and stuff.

Similar to when Goku first confronted the Ginyu force??

Nah, he was bursting his power up really quickly there. I don't think Jiece and Burther had their scouters 'on' either at the time. And his attack against Recoome was so fast, and the power increase so quick and then gone again, it wasn't picked up by the scouters. Even Krillin and Gohan hadn't been able to really sense it. That entire 'fight' is an example of powering-up without the flashy lights.

[I like DB(Z) (...)]

Hope this helps...
Imagine it like Goku at SSJ (assuming SSJ is his full-power). He could go SSJ, and practice at it untill it doesn't take as much strain on his body, like when he was preparing for the Cell games, he wanted to fight at full power, but not take too much energy out of him.
Now imagine Vegeta and Nappa doing that. Makes sense?[/i]

[The Tori-bot]

OK... here's the rare Tori's Sensible Answer section of the DaizEX forums. My w00tness points are maximum.

When somebody is powering up to their "full power" (besides SSJ) we see an aura, their veins bulge and they scream constipatedly a lot. But before and after they power up, there is no physical change to the user's body. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's a coupla theories:

1. It's just a plot device to get the cannon fodder out of the way.

2. After their "big attack" that blow's their opponent into itty-bitty pieces (*coughVegetacough*), the power-upper goes back down to normal levels after maxing out their full power Ki on their big attack. Energy is then conserved until it is needed again.

[TripleRach]

If I understand your question correctly, this analogy may help...or not.

Look at it like a car. Base = Idle, Powered up = Stepping on gas, Full Power = Going at top speed. Basically (to me), supressing your ki is like being able to go top speed, but driving so the radar (scouter) clocks you at 55. Not having the ability to supress it means if you speed up to 70 the radar clocks you at 70. Take you foot off the gas to your speed decreases accordingly.

Hope that helps

I don't really think that comparison works. Going with that comparison the average person always runs at a certain speed. So you're always going at 50 (ie, always putting out a power of 50 that can be sensed/detected). If you can supress your Ki, though, that's like taking your foot off the gas and slowing down. If you could still fight at full power but make it look like you've only got a power of 5 then we'd never have scouters exploding and stuff.

I agree, and there's a good example in the series that comes to mind here.

When Gohan and Kuririn are on their way to see Saichourou, they suppress their ki so Vegeta won't sense them and come kick their asses for stealing the last Dragon Ball from right under his nose. Because of this, they can't fly very fast, and it takes them a few days to travel across the planet. But when they get close enough, they decide to speed up, which includes raising their ki so much that Vegeta finally can sense them.

[Tyro]

Nah, I think those were just instances of "We've shown it once, why show it again?" Just like how everyone gets a flashy first (seen) SSJ transformation and then can just go *snap* and they're transformed. Like Trunks vs. Cyborg Freeza and then 3 hours later against Goku. Or Gohan and Krillin against Guldo and then a little later against Freeza. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I suppose that could be the answer but can you prove that was the answer? In the cases of "Why show it again," they just don’t show a flashy power up again, but we normally do see them do something. Nappa didn't do anything. Neither did Vegeta.

[Terra-jin]

Let's take a person with a powerlevel of 8,000. This is his base powerlevel, the amount he has when he's at the top of his form. He can fight at this level for a good while before getting tired. When he gets tired or injured, his energy level decreases and his attacks weaken. Eventually, when fatigue and injury push his energy level down to zero, he dies.
Nappa and Vegeta could stay at 8,000 and 24,000 respectively because these were their base powerlevels. So when they powered up to those levels, it wouldn't tire them much. The energy you saw in their powering up was their base energy and therefore not straining their fatigue as much as you thought.

Now, the Earthlings' ability to amplify energy is a whole other deal. When they push their powerlevel beyond base, they get tired more quickly. Raditz first noticed this with Goku and Piccolo who went over their base powerlevel by almost 300%. This ability, control of powerlevels, was completely unknown in the entire Freeza empire, making it very special to the Earth. When Vegeta used his suicide attack against Fat Buu, he amplified his energy all the way until he had no stamina left at all. That's why this attack was so vastly powerful.
Another ability was the suppression of energy. Whereas Freeza's fighters always radiated their base power, the Z-warriors could hide their energy until it was needed. The suppression of energy did not mean that they got tired slower, it takes effort to suppress energy.

[Teclo]

I do sometimes think that DBZ blurs the line between "raising your power level" or ki output and actually just trying harder in a conventional sense.

For example, I could hit someone very gently and not really give much thought to my fight strategy or I could hit them as hard as I could possibly manage while really paying attention to their weaknesses and openings. In this sense I'd be "fighting at full power" without any notion of ki or power level. I think that DBZ sometimes uses "I'm going to stop holding back!" to mean "I'll raise my power level/ki", other times uses it to mean "I'm actually going to put some effort into this fight" and sometimes uses it to mean both.

It's interesting when it comes to actually forcing your power level down. If reducing your power level reduces all your related abilities, with lowering it to 5 perhaps reducing you to the level of a normal human, does that mean that if - as a silly example - Freeza had a sniper posted behind Trunks, he could have shot him in the head when his power level was suppressed and killed him? Assuming that Trunks didn't suddenly raise his power level at the last moment, of course.

Additionally, at points like the tournament with the punch-strength measuring machines, couldn't they have just suppressed their power level and actually hit it properly rather than remaining at regular power levels but merely tapping it? Let's say that Goku suppressed his power level to 5 - and that it consequently lowers his abilities to the appropriate level - he should only have a punch strength of a very strong human, or his punch strength as a baby. Sure, his muscles are trained to an incredible degree but surely that would be the sort of thing used to calculate power level so if his was reduced to 5, his strength would have to be limited accordingly. If power level only measures ki-related abilities, totally physical fighters would have a misleadingly low power level.

[Tyro]

Nappa and Vegeta could stay at 8,000 and 24,000 respectively because these were their base powerlevels. So when they powered up to those levels, it wouldn't tire them much. The energy you saw in their powering up was their base energy and therefore not straining their fatigue as much as you thought.

Nappa wasn't at base level at least, I'm not sure about Vegeta at this time. Nappa arrives at what seems to be his base state as he couldn't suppress his ki. He powers up once (the Daizenshuu lists him at 4,000 at this level). We don't see him power down or release all of his 'powered up' ki when Vegeta tells him to stop fighting. After the three hours of waiting, Vegeta lets Nappa continue the fighting. Strangely enough, he doesn't do anything beyond stand there waiting for the others to attack. He easily bats away Gohan's Masenko (2,800), so he had to have a noticeable amount more ki than that blast. Before he kills Gohan Goku shows up and delivers a kick to Nappa's head when Nappa tried to attack him. Goku was only at 5,000 at the time. So...did he power down? Did he power up? Later Nappa powers up further and loses to Goku again, but Goku was at his base state (over 8,000) at this time. Nappa once again powers up and is on Goku's level this time, although seeming to be a bit weaker.

Vegeta (on Earth) was stronger than Goku (using the Kaio-ken) in his base state, but just barely. After he powers up ("about 18,000"), he stays in that full powered state until hit by Goku's Kamehameha, which then makes him noticeably weaker.

I can believe that once Vegeta was healed from his damage from Earth that he no longer had a 'full powered' and 'base' state. Vegeta's maximum power able to be reached was 24,000. If that was his 'full power' state, that means his 'base' didn't increase very much at all. Vegeta eventually lost the whole base and full power states thing anyway, I'm just trying to find out when.

Raditz first noticed this with Goku and Piccolo who went over their base powerlevel by almost 300%.

I don't remember Raditz saying Goku and Piccolo grew tired from focusing their ki, just that he was surprised that they could at all.

[DemonKingPiccolo]

Using that car analogy that the_abberation used, you also know that when a car "revs up" it doesn't stay revved up unless you're still stepping on the gas. I think you asked the same question on MFG, I answered it there. For those who haven't seen the answer: When one powers up, their chi is suggested to decrease as they aren't focusing on it. Much like a car, a car doesn't stay revved unless you are conciously revving it, and you don't have to do anything to get it back to idle: other than to stop revving it.

If DBZ chi amplification is similar to a car's engine, then you don't need to power down, it happens on it's own. And I think that it is similar because if you look at Goku's Kaioken, his body simply powers down from it, and the only concious move he has to make is to use the Kaioken, not to revert to his base chi. The only time that I've seen powering down is when people are transformed or supressing their chi.