Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[majinwarman]

Not the case here.

Why is that so?

The same energy from the bomb that overpowered Goku and awakened UI was the same amount of energy Kefla used, to TKO Goku and awaken UI again in Super Saiyan. Stated and shown SSJ Kefla=Spirit bomb > KKx20 Goku.

Goku awakens in UI, then powers up IN UI, Kefla responds by powering up herself to Super Saiyan 2. Piccolo states the other responded in power, Kefla is now above Goku's former level, THEN states that "BUT IF" UI Goku could draw out his power "FURTHER..." Piccolo said all this while UI and SSJ2 Kefla was powering up and he wanted UI Goku to draw more power in..UI not in KK Blue BUT IN UI.

All this is stated and shown truth in the story. Anything else is just insignificant opinions.

I think that you are right now that I have taken time to think about it. I just have trouble believing character statements due to it can be tricky telling if they are right or not. I have no problem with you man, and I don't like to attack other people using personal attacks. I'm glad we can agrue without that happening.

[TheSaiyanGod]

This too was clearly stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the spirit bomb power. Which was stronger than Goku's kkbluex20. On top of that, Kefla has SSJ2, she could of smashed Goku any time, she was clearly holding back against Goku bluekk. Goku then transforms into UI, due to Kefla's SSJ power RIVALING the spirit bomb that awakened UI earlier! Then UI Goku powers up! So Kefla responds by powering up to SSJ2. NOW surpassing Goku's former UI level with SSJ2, stated by Piccolo. Which is a proven and clear statement cause a weaker version of Kefla in SSJ = Spirit bomb > KKx20 Blue Goku has already been established. So we know Piccolo was not talking about her surpassing KK Blue Goku. Now Piccolo wants Kefla's power up to incite UI Goku to draw out his power even further cause he was at a disadvantage. Piccolo said all of this WHILE UI Goku was powering up, proving his statement as clear and true.



This poster gets it.

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku. DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy. Then Whis confirmed with "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect to trigger UI which you are alluding to. Both SSJ kefla and the bomb are stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. These are established facts and you have a logical contradiction to sort out.

The energy / Ki of Kefla rivals GK in the sense that she is was able to make Goku activate the UI, the capacity was the same. But Whis NEVER said that Kefla's energy competes with GK's in QUANTITY, this is something totally different and it's just the way you interpreted it.

This also does not prove that Kefla SSJ> Goku SSB KK x20 because Kefla forced Goku to activate the UI in a totally different context (compared to GK). Goku was already tired and lowered his guard, Kefla took advantage of this to defeat him and the fact of being out of power (because of Kefla's attack) caused Goku to activate the UI again.
The GK made Goku '' break the shell '' because of his explosion and the fact that Goku is also at the limit of his body
Whis speech simply does not match what was shown on EP 115. It would be inconsistent to think that way (as it was clear in this EP that Goku SSB KK >>> Kefla SSJ). So what we can do is give another context to the situation.

[Miracles]

Why is that so?

The same energy from the bomb that overpowered Goku and awakened UI was the same amount of energy Kefla used, to TKO Goku and awaken UI again in Super Saiyan. Stated and shown SSJ Kefla=Spirit bomb > KKx20 Goku.

Goku awakens in UI, then powers up IN UI, Kefla responds by powering up herself to Super Saiyan 2. Piccolo states the other responded in power, Kefla is now above Goku's former level, THEN states that "BUT IF" UI Goku could draw out his power "FURTHER..." Piccolo said all this while UI and SSJ2 Kefla was powering up and he wanted UI Goku to draw more power in..UI not in KK Blue BUT IN UI.

All this is stated and shown truth in the story. Anything else is just insignificant opinions.

I think that you are right now that I have taken time to think about it. I just have trouble believing character statements due to it can be tricky telling if they are right or not. I have no problem with you man, and I don't like to attack other people using personal attacks. I'm glad we can agrue without that happening.

Me too...It's been civil... If I come off a little aggressive please let me know. I don't mean to. Trust me it's all friendly.

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku. DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy. Then Whis confirmed with "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect to trigger UI which you are alluding to. Both SSJ kefla and the bomb are stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. These are established facts and you have a logical contradiction to sort out.

The energy / Ki of Kefla rivals GK in the sense that she is was able to make Goku activate the UI, the capacity was the same. But Whis NEVER said that Kefla's energy competes with GK's in QUANTITY, this is something totally different and it's just the way you interpreted it.

This also does not prove that Kefla SSJ> Goku SSB KK x20 because Kefla forced Goku to activate the UI in a totally different context (compared to GK). Goku was already tired and lowered his guard, Kefla took advantage of this to defeat him and the fact of being out of power (because of Kefla's attack) caused Goku to activate the UI again.
The GK made Goku '' break the shell '' because of his explosion and the fact that Goku is also at the limit of his body
Whis speech simply does not match what was shown on EP 115. It would be inconsistent to think that way (as it was clear in this EP that Goku SSB KK >>> Kefla SSJ). So what we can do is give another context to the situation.

You state that Whis says Kefla's energy/ki rivals the power of the Genki dama. Then go on to say Whis never stated her power competes with the AMOUNT?!
Even tho Whis stated her energy rivals, which means it EQUALS in the AMOUNT/QUANTITY of power to the Genki Dama. That's a contradiction on your part.
You can't give Whis canon statement about Kefla's SSJ rivaling the power of the bomb another context when SSJ Kefla TKO's Goku OUT OF KK Blue with just ONE KICK!!! The actions equal the statements.

[majinwarman]

The same energy from the bomb that overpowered Goku and awakened UI was the same amount of energy Kefla used, to TKO Goku and awaken UI again in Super Saiyan. Stated and shown SSJ Kefla=Spirit bomb > KKx20 Goku.

Goku awakens in UI, then powers up IN UI, Kefla responds by powering up herself to Super Saiyan 2. Piccolo states the other responded in power, Kefla is now above Goku's former level, THEN states that "BUT IF" UI Goku could draw out his power "FURTHER..." Piccolo said all this while UI and SSJ2 Kefla was powering up and he wanted UI Goku to draw more power in..UI not in KK Blue BUT IN UI.

All this is stated and shown truth in the story. Anything else is just insignificant opinions.

I think that you are right now that I have taken time to think about it. I just have trouble believing character statements due to it can be tricky telling if they are right or not. I have no problem with you man, and I don't like to attack other people using personal attacks. I'm glad we can agrue without that happening.

Me too...It's been civil... If I come off a little aggressive please let me know. I don't mean to. Trust me it's all friendly.

Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku. DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy. Then Whis confirmed with "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect to trigger UI which you are alluding to. Both SSJ kefla and the bomb are stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. These are established facts and you have a logical contradiction to sort out.

The energy / Ki of Kefla rivals GK in the sense that she is was able to make Goku activate the UI, the capacity was the same. But Whis NEVER said that Kefla's energy competes with GK's in QUANTITY, this is something totally different and it's just the way you interpreted it.

This also does not prove that Kefla SSJ> Goku SSB KK x20 because Kefla forced Goku to activate the UI in a totally different context (compared to GK). Goku was already tired and lowered his guard, Kefla took advantage of this to defeat him and the fact of being out of power (because of Kefla's attack) caused Goku to activate the UI again.
The GK made Goku '' break the shell '' because of his explosion and the fact that Goku is also at the limit of his body
Whis speech simply does not match what was shown on EP 115. It would be inconsistent to think that way (as it was clear in this EP that Goku SSB KK >>> Kefla SSJ). So what we can do is give another context to the situation.

You state that Whis says Kefla's energy/ki rivals the power of the Genki dama. Then go on to say Whis never stated her power competes with the AMOUNT?!
Even tho Whis stated her energy rivals, which means it EQUALS in the AMOUNT/QUANTITY of power to the Genki Dama. That's a contradiction on your part.
You can't give Whis canon statement about Kefla's SSJ rivaling the power of the bomb another context when SSJ Kefla TKO's Goku OUT OF KK Blue with just ONE KICK!!! The actions equal the statements.

Yeah, I didn't realize that one until you pointed that one out. Well, looks I learned something new today. I just can't wait to see what we are going to debate about that happens in tonight's episode.

[buutenks]

Seems to me apart from UI Goku n Jiren, ssj2 Kefla is one with highest battle power in the ToP, so far anyways.

Also, 7 more pages and we get in the 4 digits lol.

[Lord Beerus]

Episode 117:

- Katopesla attacks Vegeta as he deliberately lets his guard down as a ploy to hopefully activate Ultra Instinct
- Vegeta, in his base form, gets tired of being punched and beats the tar out of Katopesla
- Rozie attacks #17, while Ribrianne attacks #18
- The battles between Rozie/#17 and Ribrianne/18 are pretty even
- Rozie get eliminated by accident from an attack by Ribrianne that was meant to take out #18. With #17 providing the final blow with a ki blast pushing her out of bounds
- Rozie is out
- Ribrianne is beaten out her for "Magical Girl" form by #18
- Brianne traps #18 in a love tentacle kind of thing
- With the "love" donated from the Universe 2 Kaioshin and Hakaishin and other eliminated fighters for Universe 2, Brianne transforms into a giant and more extravagant version of her "Magical Girl Ribrianne" form.
- #18 breaks free from Brianne's love tentacle/trap thing
- #18 and #17 team up to take her down, with #18 defeating her with punch through the head.
- Brianne is out.
- NEP show Gohan in his Ultimate Form fighting the Universe 6 Namekians and Base Goku having his hands full with who is left for Universe 2

[ZombieVito]

How the fuck is 18 stronger than Ribrianne?

[CJStriker_CBR]

How the fuck is 18 stronger than Ribrianne?

Because Toei Said So.

Honestly I give my Respects to 17 and 18 and their fans, but honestly that seemed out of knowhere, the power scaling in this arc is to mess to figure out.

Again all respects to 17 and 18.

[The gr]

How the fuck is 18 stronger than Ribrianne?

Ribrianne was never confirm to be a threat to base goku so there is no problem here.

[Zamasu55]

What
A
Mess.
This episode is... I don't know, the worst in terms of power levels. Oh my freaking god.

How can 18 take down Ribrianne's new form when Goku needed to go BLUE to beat a weaker version...

Toyo needs to fix this crap, honestly.

[MainJPW]

All that sparring in the front yard with Kuririn really paid off.

[Xeogran]

Biarra vs 17 was funny as heck.

It seemed like the U3 robot would be an actual match for the android at first, but then we scene skip and he's lying defeated. Hopefully it's not over for him yet.

[dbzfan7]

It's rare that I say fuck any kind of consistency or whatever argument, and just look at the gift that was given. But now is that time. My pants are so tight right now, and are just shy from bursting. Only one moment was missing to make me need a complete change of pants.

[Lord Beerus]

Ribrianne was never anything special. SSJ tier at best. It's obvious she gassed after fighting Android 17 initially. Hence why she could barely hold her own against Base Goku and and Vegeta later and then had to rely on the love/power provided by Universe 2 Kaioshin and Hakaishin and other eliminated fighters for Universe 2 just to keep her going, and even that wasn't enough to pose a major threat to even Base Goku. She obviously running on fumes for quite a while and she burned out in this episode.

[ZombieVito]

Ribrianne was never anything special. SSJ tier at best. It's obvious she gassed after fighting Android 17 initially. Hence why she could barely hold her own against Base Goku and and Vegeta later and then had to rely on the love/power provided by Universe 2 Kaioshin and Hakaishin and other eliminated fighters for Universe 2 just to keep her going, and even that wasn't enough to pose a major threat to even Base Goku. She obviously running on fumes for quite a while and she burned out in this episode.

The problem is that SS tier is way to fucking strong now.

18 is very weak in comparison with base Goku. I don't understand how she could beat Ribrianne.

[zamasu121]

What
A
Mess.
This episode is... I don't know, the worst in terms of power levels. Oh my freaking god.

How can 18 take down Ribrianne's new form when Goku needed to go BLUE to beat a weaker version...

Toyo needs to fix this crap, honestly.

Wtf am i reading. Goku was beating her in his base form.

[The gr]

The problem is that SS tier is way to fucking strong now.

18 is very weak in comparison with base Goku. I don't understand how she could beat Ribrianne.

Again since when ribrianne is stated to be ss1 tier,she is below that along with base,the show created a false hearing,just watch if the manga had her one shotted by base goku then is a proof she wasn't supposed to be strong at the first place.

It's rare that I say fuck any kind of consistency or whatever argument, and just look at the gift that was given. But now is that time. My pants are so tight right now, and are just shy from bursting. Only one moment was missing to make me need a complete change of pants.

Wow you don't like ribrianne ,you still have the pride trooper,aren't you annoyed by that.

[dbzfan7]

It's rare that I say fuck any kind of consistency or whatever argument, and just look at the gift that was given. But now is that time. My pants are so tight right now, and are just shy from bursting. Only one moment was missing to make me need a complete change of pants.

Wow you don't like ribrianne ,you still have the pride trooper,aren't you annoyed by that.

Jiren is the most boring man in the multi-verse, cept for his Manga variation which shows potential. Dyspo is meh. Toppo is kinda eh. They're far less annoying. The one time I thought they'd ditch the joke that got tiresome by their first episode, they immediately make her dull again. A love forsaken Ribrianne coulda been interesting to me...but she became dull with a slap. Oh and she dissed 18's husband with her shallowness....she HAD to go down for insulting the arguably best couple in the franchise, if not second to Bulma and Vegeta.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Ribrianne was never anything special. SSJ tier at best. It's obvious she gassed after fighting Android 17 initially. Hence why she could barely hold her own against Base Goku and and Vegeta later and then had to rely on the love/power provided by Universe 2 Kaioshin and Hakaishin and other eliminated fighters for Universe 2 just to keep her going, and even that wasn't enough to pose a major threat to even Base Goku. She obviously running on fumes for quite a while and she burned out in this episode.

You know that there's a problem with the writing when the strongest person from a universe isn't anything special. Honestly, who in this tournament that isn't from U6, 7, or 11 has been anything special? Maji Kayo's the best I can think of. I want the 2 bugs to be impressive and an actual threat, but the treatment of every other fighter (especially the ones from U4) not from the 3 aforementioned universes makes me reluctant to have any high expectations for them.

[The gr]

Jiren is the most boring man in the multi-verse, cept for his Manga variation which shows potential. Dyspo is meh. Toppo is kinda eh. They're far less annoying. The one time I thought they'd ditch the joke that got tiresome by their first episode, they immediately make her dull again. A love forsaken Ribrianne coulda been interesting to me...but she became dull with a slap. Oh and she dissed 18's husband with her shallowness....she HAD to go down for insulting the arguably best couple in the franchise, if not second to Bulma and Vegeta.

Yeah she get the title of the most annoying character in db.

Knew it ribrianne wasn't that special as toei trying to say.