Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Boo was chosen over her in the Champa arc and for the exhibition matches.

[dbgtFO]

So Ribrianne was weak as shit afterall, good riddance.
All these fights, it's probably better to wait for characters' "real" fights before making judgements.
Also looking at those robots from U3, who were casually blown away by Caulifla and others, it may just be a scene to have something there, not for it to actually mean something definitive power wise.
Just like Berserker Kale vs SSB Goku and Ribrianne vs #17 part 1, didn't mean anything serious, as later events show, those robots may be more of a deal, when their time to shine comes.

[supercat]

Boo was chosen over her in the Champa arc and for the exhibition matches.

Weak argument.

Gohan was chosen too, yet he got wrecked by Piccolo, effortlessly might I add. Then there's 17 who with only a portion of his power was able to tangle with a suppressed SSB Goku. Buu, even as a new-and-improved version, at best only managed to do okay against Base Goku, who presumably wasn't even going all out.

With these things taken into consideration, it seems pretty likely that it wasn't necessarily the strongest who were picked for the exhibition match.

The Champa saga also has nothing to do with the ToP. Piccolo presumably got 100x stronger since then, and recruiting 17 was never even a thought at that point, so again, the argument holds little to no weight here.

Like it or not, but Ribrianne could be anywhere between a notch or two below Base Saiyans to around current SSJ Goku / Vegeta. That whole range, should be leagues above Buuhan, let alone Mr. Buu. Meaning, if 18 could take on and defeat a character of that caliber, she too is likely stronger than the top contenders of the Buu saga.

I don't care if anyone thinks that's bad writing, because quite frankly, existing characters multiplying their power while taking on new characters that tower over previously established benchmarks really isn't anything new. Then there's also how 17 and 18 started off power levels far greater than Namek Frieza, who at one point was considered some unfathomable source of power that apparently no one could defy.

I don't see why Buu should be treated any differently than how Namek Frieza was treated.

[Bullza]

I haven't got the slightest clue how strong the Androids or the Maidens are supposed to be.

Android 17 was above Super Saiyan Goku whilst also holding back.

Android 18....is she meant to be comparable? That wouldn't make much sense seeing as she wasn't chosen for the Universe 6 Tournament so you'd think she would be below Piccolo.

Ribrianne is all over the place. She matched Android 17, didn't seem serious against Super Saiyan Vegeta, matched Base Goku, powered up to Super Ribrianne and had him on the run, Base Vegeta blasted her away, now Android 18 held her own against her......I have no idea where she's meant to be.

[precita]

There really aren't any strong fighters left outside the 3 Pride troopers. The only unknown guys are those 2 bugs and the blue guy.

The last 3 U2 guys seem like jobbers, the two Nameks seem decently powerful but will be taken out in 1 ep, and then all those robots have literally gotten their asses kicked like they were nothing every time we've seen them. And...that's it. Those are the only fighters left. Wow.

[Cipher]

Good luck with Ribrianne, everyone.

Truly Dragon Ball's greatest mystery, that one.

[Zamasu55]

What
A
Mess.
This episode is... I don't know, the worst in terms of power levels. Oh my freaking god.

How can 18 take down Ribrianne's new form when Goku needed to go BLUE to beat a weaker version...

Toyo needs to fix this crap, honestly.

So? A couple of episodes ago, Goku and Vegeta unnecessarily used Blue to take out 3 weakling mutts.

I really like how people are so quick to overreact whenever said episode contradicts their preconceived scaling while completely disregarding the episode's merits.

That sucks as well.

[DBZ Macky]

There really aren't any strong fighters left outside the 3 Pride troopers. The only unknown guys are those 2 bugs and the blue guy.

The last 3 U2 guys seem like jobbers, the two Nameks seem decently powerful but will be taken out in 1 ep, and then all those robots have literally gotten their asses kicked like they were nothing every time we've seen them. And...that's it. Those are the only fighters left. Wow.

I know, right. This new "Universe Survival Saga" is almost over.
I thought we might get a good idea of where Base Goku and the God forms stand in comparison to other characters, but we have so many inconsistencies that we just have to assume that a particular character was either holding back for no apparent reason, or was incredibly fatigued.

One episode, it seems like Krillin isn't much weaker than 18, and the other it seems like 18 isn't much weaker than 17. Are both Krillin and 17 SSB tier now? lol.

[Doctor.]

Ribrianne is a weakling. 18 and the base Saiyans are comparable and both held their own against her. Jesus Christ, how are you guys having such difficulty scalling her? Just because Vegeta and #17 who were clearly fooling around messed with her for a few seconds?

[wolflonnie]

Yeah, I agree that 18 isn't as weak as she was in DBZ.
I think she's a bit below Piccolo. Perhaps SSJ2 Teen Gohan level, or a bit above. Sounds reasonable.

[Bullza]

Ok I went back and looked through all of Ribrianne's fights and maybe it isn't so confusing after all.

1. She fights Super Saiyan Vegeta equally but the fight is that brief that it doesn't really mean too much (especially with their latter fight).

2. She fights Android 17 again equally. This is the most problematic one really as you wouldn't think Android 17 would be holding back but he would have to be going by the fact he was shown to be stronger than Super Saiyan Goku.

3. She fights Base Goku. Clearly has the upper hand but Base Goku wasn't using his full power. He powers up in Base form after Ribrianne becomes Super Ribrianne. Super Ribrianne has Base Goku on the run and he has to transform to one shot her.

4. She fights Base Vegeta. She's got no wings so she's not Super Ribrianne. Loses against Vegeta who unlike Goku probably wasn't holding back.

5. She fights Android 18. Wasn't as one sided as her fight with Base Vegeta. She becomes Giant Super Ribrianne......I can't tell if Android 18 powered up after the flashback or not, I'll just say she did though.

So what you're ultimately left with is

Android 18 (After Flashback) > Giant Super Ribrianne > Super Ribrianne > Base Goku/Vegeta > Android 18 > Ribrianne > Kakunsa/Rosie

Something along the lines of that.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The sequences in the majority of the episode are almost certainly not power level predicated, as it was a show of skill and combat prowess for the most part.

The end sequence is a little bit iffier, but I think we have a perfectly good explanation: Love.

Against a magical girl whose whole Universe is built around the notion of love as power, 18's love for Krillin and her daughter was proven stronger. It's the romantic version of "Power of Friendship", really.

[emperior]

I think 17 is saving his stamina by only using his infinite energy sources. He can now use his normal Ki on top of his old power, but that shouldn't be infinite and when he doesn't use it, he's exactly at his Androids arc level. 18 should be around her Androids arc level too, but she used her normal ki for the first time in episode 117 when she beat Ribrianne.

[AvatarReiko]

Could someone explain how a person who causally tanks punches from SSJ Vegeta bruised her leg so easily? Really weird how frail Toei made 18 in this episode.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Could someone explain how a person who causally tanks punches from SSJ Vegeta bruised her leg so easily? Really weird how frail Toei made 18 in this episode.

Tanking hits isn't as prevalent anymore, unless you're within the "god level" of power, as fans call it, compared to those below it.

That's about the only hard rule with regards to how damage works.

[Bullza]

I don't even know how some of these characters even compare to Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks anymore.

He couldn't budge the equivalent of Base Vegeta but Piccolo could budge a stronger Base Goku. Base Gohan seems like he would be on par with Base Goku.

Then Ribrianne was weaker but not hugely so and Android 18 looks like she could wouldn't be far off the Base Saiyans either.

[Doctor.]

I don't even know how some of these characters even compare to Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks anymore.

He couldn't budge the equivalent of Base Vegeta but Piccolo could budge a stronger Base Goku. Base Gohan seems like he would be on par with Base Goku.

Then Ribrianne was weaker but not hugely so and Android 18 looks like she could wouldn't be far off the Base Saiyans either.

Retcon theory.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I don't even know how some of these characters even compare to Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks anymore.

He couldn't budge the equivalent of Base Vegeta but Piccolo could budge a stronger Base Goku. Base Gohan seems like he would be on par with Base Goku.

Then Ribrianne was weaker but not hugely so and Android 18 looks like she could wouldn't be far off the Base Saiyans either.

Easy. A tournament setting like this creates scenarios that requires that those old hard rules be bent and molded to create more dynamic and non-one-sided and interesting combat scenarios that play up fighting skill and strategies over pure brute force.

For example, we see with SS2 Caulifla vs. base Goku that landing hits in general works unless one is at "god level" compared to lower levels or has a particularly interesting kind of ability like Dyspo's speed. No tanking here, or else Caulifla would've just took Goku's punches head on without damage.

This also inadvertently justifies earlier scenarios with "supposed weaklings" because it means that you don't need to utilize "higher power level makes lower power level invalid". Goku and Vegeta, when fighting Universe 9, were simply matched against skilled opponents that used good strategy against them, no matter the power difference.

[ZombieVito]

I haven't got the slightest clue how strong the Androids or the Maidens are supposed to be.

Android 17 was above Super Saiyan Goku whilst also holding back.

Android 18....is she meant to be comparable? That wouldn't make much sense seeing as she wasn't chosen for the Universe 6 Tournament so you'd think she would be below Piccolo.

Ribrianne is all over the place. She matched Android 17, didn't seem serious against Super Saiyan Vegeta, matched Base Goku, powered up to Super Ribrianne and had him on the run, Base Vegeta blasted her away, now Android 18 held her own against her......I have no idea where she's meant to be.

The only thing we can do to make sense of it all is to say that Goku, Vegeta and 17 all went easy on her.

[lord turbo]

I've been seeing people say that the ROSAT is only as big as Earth. Where are you getting that being a multi-galaxy level feat?

Because Vegeta ripped asunder the fabric of reality that makes up the Rosat dimension. Just a little science, but the amount of energy to rip a hole the size of the one Super Buu and SS3 Gotenks created is bare minimum on the order of a standard super nova (10^44 joules). Vegeta ripped apart spacetime the size of Earth by flaring his aura which is somewhere around 10^56 joules. To nuke a standard size galaxy (100-200 billion stars) is between 10^52 to 10^53 joules.

Keep in mind SSR Black's energy blade ripped apart what appears to be miles worth of spacetime which is around galaxy level and SSB Vegeta was more or less on par with that version of SSR Black if not potentially stronger.

As for the topic I find if funny the deeper we get into this ToP saga the harder it becomes to rank these characters. Before this episods 18 seemed at least above base saiyan level to above SSJ to SSJ2 level by moving Cocotte's barrier to stomping Ribrianne and Supet Ribrianne.

Vegeta seems like the one causing confusion and not really everyone else (Goku, Freeza, Gohan, and Piccolo) as originally thought. I say becauze the police ranger guy looked to be just as syrong as 18 if not potentially stronger as appeared to be in serious trouble haf 17 not come tk her rescue, yet base Vegeta faces a version 300x stronger than the one that 18 was plttembling before.

Keep in mind Vegeta tanked every hit, got fed up and easily beat the crap out of ranger cop dude. So is base Vegeta over 300x stronger than 18 who's stronger than base saiyan level or is this more fuel for two base theory?