Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

[PsionicWarrior]

And lets face it, the majority of DB characters are shallow and undeveloped. We have to literally use headcanon most of the time to fill the blanks on their personalities and desires.

I beg your pardon I never ever do that leave the fan-fiction on the side pls lol

[Nickolaidas]

That's not an argument either. Nobody dislikes Vados or Cus.

They haven't bragged or threatened the bad-assness of any of the major male characters. Yet.

And lets face it, the majority of DB characters are shallow and undeveloped. We have to literally use headcanon most of the time to fill the blanks on their personalities and desires.

I beg your pardon I never ever do that leave the fan-fiction on the side pls lol

Good for you. I do leave the fan-fiction on the side. That doesn't mean that the characters have good development. In the end, the show is what it is. Simple and formulaic.

[PsionicWarrior]

That doesn't mean that the characters have good development. In the end, the show is what it is. Simple and formulaic.

Some characters do have better development than others though, for instance Vegeta in Z lol

[mfwlegend3]

Plus neither of these females were powerful

I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine. Many people like to use No. 18 as an example of a character that's liked whenever someone pulls the sexism card. But #18 really hasn't been "out there" in terms of power. She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. She was immediately just shifted off to the side for the rest of that arc, and she never rivaled anyone in power. Attention was never the focus of her that much. Plus, she's literally waifu for most of the men who watch this shit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as I see from this thread that Caulifla really has not demonstrated a personality that's different from any past characters. There's more to it than just "she's annoying," IMO. Whether it's not liking a literally who walk all over the macho MCs, or sexism, I can't say for certain. If it's the latter, I doubt they'd actually admit it.

[PsionicWarrior]

She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. .

Yes she was a menace and a very strong one, Krillin was supposed to kill her from the back with the controller remember lol

[mfwlegend3]

Yes she was a menace and a very strong one, Krillin was supposed to kill her from the back with the controller remember lol

At that time, Trunks and Vegeta had already surpassed the androids by miles. 18 was shocked and didn't recognize Vegeta for his strength from the last time she fought him.

[Nickolaidas]

Plus neither of these females were powerful

I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine. Many people like to use No. 18 as an example of a character that's liked whenever someone pulls the sexism card. But #18 really hasn't been "out there" in terms of power. She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. She was immediately just shifted off to the side for the rest of that arc, and she never rivaled anyone in power. Attention was never the focus of her that much. Plus, she's literally waifu for most of the men who watch this shit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as I see from this thread that Caulifla really has not demonstrated a personality that's different from any past characters. There's more to it than just "she's annoying," IMO. Whether it's not liking a literally who walk all over the macho MCs, or sexism, I can't say for certain. If it's the latter, I doubt they'd actually admit it.

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Ribrianne I don't like because she's embarrassing to watch. I don't dislike her as much as the U6 saiyans and if she wasn't a gag character and was more serious in defending love in the universes I'd her really liked her as a character. The scene in a previous episode where she was questioning her resolve was on the verge of amazing. The only scene of hers that I liked.

CJStriker, please don't thank me for writing the last two lines.

[PsionicWarrior]

Yes she was a menace and a very strong one, Krillin was supposed to kill her from the back with the controller remember lol

At that time, Trunks and Vegeta had already surpassed the androids by miles. 18 was shocked and didn't recognize Vegeta for his strength from the last time she fought him.

Ah you may be right my bad for remembering it wrong then it's been a while lol well she still was a menace before Vegeta & Co got stronger lol

[HeroR]

Plus neither of these females were powerful

I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine. Many people like to use No. 18 as an example of a character that's liked whenever someone pulls the sexism card. But #18 really hasn't been "out there" in terms of power. She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. She was immediately just shifted off to the side for the rest of that arc, and she never rivaled anyone in power. Attention was never the focus of her that much. Plus, she's literally waifu for most of the men who watch this shit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as I see from this thread that Caulifla really has not demonstrated a personality that's different from any past characters. There's more to it than just "she's annoying," IMO. Whether it's not liking a literally who walk all over the macho MCs, or sexism, I can't say for certain. If it's the latter, I doubt they'd actually admit it.

The thing with Cali is that I can understand people not liking her for being arrogant and a little up her own ass. These characters type get on my nerves too if overdone. The problem is that we have characters like Vegeta that the fanbase regularly adores is his self-important personality, even when he can backed up. So why is Vegeta who has an ego far higher than Cali never get half the flames?

Now we can say it's because Vegeta is an old do who grew, which is sorta far although Vegeta is back to his self-important, arrogant personality in this arc and people seem to love him for it, including when he refused to give energy to the Spirit Bomb, which is one of the dickish things anyone done in this tournament. We then have Dypso who is given important, is arrogant despite his poor battle record, yet he's treated as a light joke. Or how about that U3 superhero who has been appearing everywhere lately? He's annoying, cocky without the power to back it, yet the fanbase find him hilarious. Maybe because he's in short bursts and he often get his ass kicked, perhaps.

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Ribrianne I don't like because she's embarrassing to watch. I don't dislike her as much as the U6 saiyans and if she wasn't a gag character and was more serious in defending love in the universes I'd her really liked her as a character. The scene in a previous episode where she was questioning her resolve was on the verge of amazing. The only scene of hers that I liked.

You would so hate me in real life. lol

[Doctor.]

Actually, yes. I did miss it.

Just be aware that people dislike asspulls, this isn't new.

But doesn't that apply to the U6 female Saiyans as well? They're not heroes, they're here to annihilate the U7 universe via elimination and Caulifla basically swore revenge at Goku when she lost. In a way, in THIS arc, she's a bad guy. No better than Saiyan arc Vegeta.

No, they're not our heroes, but they're still heroes. They're still being portrayed as good guys. And we know that Vegeta will wish them back if he wins. Compare Caulifla's reaction to Brianne's. Brianne acknowledged she was in the wrong and learned from her experience, she took her loss relatively well. Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?

I compared Namek saga Vegeta with ToP saga Caulifla and Kefla. He wasn't as 'developed' back then as he is now. And lets face it, the majority of DB characters are shallow and undeveloped. We have to literally use headcanon most of the time to fill the blanks on their personalities and desires. Or did the majority of the fandom had it coming that Krillin would become a cop?

Vegeta's character arc on Namek is still a million times more compelling than whatever Caulifla and Kale had going on this arc.

But they never 'threatened' Goku and co's power levels.

The point isn't "threatening" Goku & co. The point is that the way they do it is stupid. These Saiyan characters have never heard of Super Saiyan before yet you expect people to believe with no problem that they have never gotten angry enough to transform when just tingling hard enough makes them unlock it? And in regards to Kale, you expect people to believe that she NEVER transformed before when a little bit of jealously was enough to trigger her form? No, their powers weren't well thought out. They're disliked because they make Goku's effort look insignificant. Like I said, the fanbase at large doesn't really have a problem with Vados and Cus, who are justified to be as strong as they are.

and people seem to love him for it, including when he refused to give energy to the Spirit Bomb

Are you delusional? I've not seen one person saying that was good. Most people hate how Vegeta has seemingly regressed to his Cell arc self.

[mfwlegend3]

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

This is the first time I've seen a complaint like that. Caulifla is what I always imagined how a Saiyan woman would be, especially as Vegeta described them to be "strong-willed."

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

[Lord Beerus]

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

And you love to fight!?

[HeroR]

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

This is the first time I've seen a complaint like that. Caulifla is what I always imagined how a Saiyan woman would be, especially as Vegeta described them to be "strong-willed."

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

And you love to fight!?

Took martial arts for four years. I want to take classes again, when I have money.

[mfwlegend3]

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

This is the first time I've seen a complaint like that. Caulifla is what I always imagined how a Saiyan woman would be, especially as Vegeta described them to be "strong-willed."

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol

Wow. My mind is blown. I always thought you were a male. Anyways, back on topic.

[Nickolaidas]

You would so hate me in real life. lol

Wait, you're a girl?

And you love to fight!?

I burst out laughing at that one. Bravo, Sir Beerus. Bravo!

[Lord Beerus]

Wait, you're a girl?

And you love to fight!?

Took martial arts for four years. I want to take classes again, when I have money.

Wow. I never would have known that.

Are you also a Saiyan by any chance?

[HeroR]

And you love to fight!?

Took martial arts for four years. I want to take classes again, when I have money.

Wow. I never would have known that.

Are you also a Saiyan by any chance?

Not that lucky. lol

[Nickolaidas]

This is the first time I've seen a complaint like that. Caulifla is what I always imagined how a Saiyan woman would be, especially as Vegeta described them to be "strong-willed."

If you're not certain how a particular fictional character falls to sexual stereotypes, imagine reading his / her lines on paper, with the character's name being labeled as "X" and the pages never inferring to X's sex in any way.

Now imagine never before seeing Caulifla, only reading about her through her lines on a sheet of paper, with her sexual identity being hidden, and decide whether or not that character is male or female.

[Nickolaidas]

Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?

Because that's exactly what the fandom did with Vegeta. For the entirety of DBZ, he never once admitted that Goku was his superior. Do you honestly claim that Vegeta started having fans in the last few episodes of DBZ when he called Goku #1?

[Simere]

This is the first time I've seen a complaint like that. Caulifla is what I always imagined how a Saiyan woman would be, especially as Vegeta described them to be "strong-willed."

If you're not certain how a particular fictional character falls to sexual stereotypes, imagine reading his / her lines on paper, with the character's name being labeled as "X" and the pages never inferring to X's sex in any way.

Now imagine never before seeing Caulifla, only reading about her through her lines on a sheet of paper, with her sexual identity being hidden, and decide whether or not that character is male or female.

Well, I can imagine most characters as male or female. It'd only be small handful of characters I'd picture as just one or the other.

I like that you're honest about your bias, though. Bias doesn't bother me near as much as the refusal to admit it.