Why are 5/8 universes total fodder?

[Meshack]

Who says that each universe HAS to have a "SSG level fighter"?

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

[BlueVegerot]

Strong opponents should be saved for the characters that the production team likes and want to show off. Naturally that can only be a few characters so as to maintain a half-way decent pace and number of new characters worthy of being shown off. Of course, this arc is already more than twice as long as it should be thanks to the production committee, so that just weakens the arc even more.

You realize that ribrianne got a ton of screentime right and she jobbed to a18

[BlueVegerot]

Who says that each universe HAS to have a "SSG level fighter"?

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

[Meshack]

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

Why? That wouldn’t be interesting . Jiren, Toppo, and Kefla are fine

[BlueVegerot]

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

Why? That wouldn’t be interesting . Jiren, Toppo, and Kefla are fine

2 universes out of 7 opposing universe. Guess what kefla is gone, toppo has done diddly squat and jiren meditates so now theres no one really strong left for u7 to fight until jiren decides to care.

[TekTheNinja]

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

This is what I meant, yes. But what would be better is if universe 7's fighters could get their own damn strength buffs. It's as simple as everybody training to get god ki or something else more unique but Toriyama just wants everyone else to be purpetually weak compared to Goku and Vegeta for some damn reason. At least back in Z they were in the same ballpark, but now they ain't even in the same continent.

[Meshack]

Having characters as strong as Gokuh doesn’t make things interesting. How would Piccolo get a fair chance if everyone not on his team is on par with Gokuh? He can’t

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

This is what I meant, yes. But what would be better is if universe 7's fighters could get their own damn strength buffs. It's as simple as everybody training to get god ki or something else more unique but Toriyama just wants everyone else to be purpetually weak compared to Goku and Vegeta for some damn reason. At least back in Z they were in the same ballpark, but now they ain't even in the same continent.

I, along with a lot of others, are fine with what’s happening now with Gokuh and Vegeta being the strongest. Gohan, Boo, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, and others don’t need to be anywhere near their strength to be relevant. I mean, they’re relevant this arc without being close in strength.

[TekTheNinja]

I never said every fighter should be ssg level or above but every universe should have an ace who can push goku or vegeta. there are plenty of fighters for piccolo to fight ie namekians

This is what I meant, yes. But what would be better is if universe 7's fighters could get their own damn strength buffs. It's as simple as everybody training to get god ki or something else more unique but Toriyama just wants everyone else to be purpetually weak compared to Goku and Vegeta for some damn reason. At least back in Z they were in the same ballpark, but now they ain't even in the same continent.

I, along with a lot of others, are fine with what’s happening now with Gokuh and Vegeta being the strongest. Gohan, Boo, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, and others don’t need to be anywhere near their strength to be relevant. I mean, they’re relevant this arc without being close in strength.

HA! Very few of them are even close to relevant.

[namekiansaiyan]

This is what I meant, yes. But what would be better is if universe 7's fighters could get their own damn strength buffs. It's as simple as everybody training to get god ki or something else more unique but Toriyama just wants everyone else to be purpetually weak compared to Goku and Vegeta for some damn reason. At least back in Z they were in the same ballpark, but now they ain't even in the same continent.

I, along with a lot of others, are fine with what’s happening now with Gokuh and Vegeta being the strongest. Gohan, Boo, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, and others don’t need to be anywhere near their strength to be relevant. I mean, they’re relevant this arc without being close in strength.

HA! Very few of them are even close to relevant.

I don't know how Buu, Trunks and Goten can be relevant when they don't even appear where the main action is happening. Gohan and Piccolo have not exactly done much either.

The stronger the character the easier it is for them to be relevent. Simple as that really.

[TekTheNinja]

I mean the cast doesn't even have to ever rival or surpass Goku like they did in Z. They just need to stay relatively strong, but in Super they don't even do that.

[Meshack]

I mean the cast doesn't even have to ever rival or surpass Goku like they did in Z. They just need to stay relatively strong, but in Super they don't even do that.

Muten-Roushi stronger than Dyspo?! Awesome!

[puar]

Lets be real. Ribrianne lost because db super writers saw the fans hated her

[namekiansaiyan]

Lets be real. Ribrianne lost because db super writers saw the fans hated her

Ribrianne is just the most overhyped fighter by Toei in the whole tournament.

[TekTheNinja]

Lets be real. Ribrianne lost because db super writers saw the fans hated her

I highly doubt that. Pretty sure it was all planned in advance.

[Lord Beerus]

I made an extensive point(s) about this in another thread and I'm just going to rephrase myself:

I think people don't really take into consideration the significance of mortal level of the universes that are taking part in the Tournament Of Power. They are below the acceptable standard, meaning that the Kaioshin and Hakaishin don't do a good job of overseeing their universe. And the type of fighters that were recruited by the Hakaishin and Kaioshin of the other universes really reflect why their mortal rating isn't good enough.

This is made even more apparent with the reaction the Hakaishin and Kaioshin of the other universe provided reacted when Goku turned SSJB against Bergamo during the Zen Exhibition Match(es). They were absolutely shitting themselves in fear and bemusement. They couldn't believe that a mortal like Goku could be that strong. Strong enough to rival the Gods. That alone should have been the first major red flag in regards to how the other universes are run. The concept of mortal rivaling a God in power was unknown to most them. The Hakaishin and Kaioshin of the other universes were so not ready for the Tournament Of Power and for guys like Goku to be fighting the best their universe can offer. And it really fucking shows so far with how much Universe 7 and Universe 6, but more-so Universe 7, have dominated this tournament at this current stage.

The context of how Universe 7 changed is so far from the the norm compare to other universes in the Tournament Of Power. And Universe 7 having the second lowest mortal rating out the entire multiverse actually brilliantly reflects that. Shit happened Universe 7 that really shouldn't have happened and had extensional effect on the growth of the main cast in terms of personality, but so much more so in the strength department. The main cast went through so many major conflicts and had to constantly prepare themselves for the next upcoming threat, and because of this, were granted so many shortcuts in getting very strong (Training with Kami, training with King Kai, the ROSAT, the Gravity Machine) and learned many techniques to give them the edge in battle that most other universes wouldn't have even heard of (Pretty much every technique Roshi and Tien know). Goku and Vegeta only got as strong as they have because of the big unconditional favors they get from the Gods of their universe. I mean, Goku wouldn't have gotten as strong as he did in the Saiyan arc or the Majin Boo arc if the literal God of Death himself didn't grant him the major favor of allowing to keep his body in death so he could train. And Vegeta would have become a SSJB if Whis didn't throw him a bone and train him just because he gave him some tasty food.

The Namek and Freeza arcs were a big fucking fluke in the making. It was only through pure coincidence and good fortune that Freeza got the drop on Namek and the Namekian Dragon Balls. And if Freeza never found about Namek, a lot shit doesn't happen. And even before that, Vegeta living beyond the Saiyan arc was all down to having a hell of a lot of good graces on his side. Universe 7 have had a hell of a lot of luck and good favors bestowed upon them from people in high places to get them where they are right now. Just imagine if Krillin actually didn't spare Vegeta at Goku's request and killed him in the Saiyan arc. Or if Freeza never heard of Namek. Could you imagine how different shit would have turned out?

And then there are incidents like the Androids (16, 17 and 18) being activated and Majin Boo being resurrected. All of those events didn't need to happen but the main cast contributed in a significant way to the occurring. The scenario with the Androids is all the more jarring of a case considering they knew what was going to happen and could have easily prevented any of those events for occurring but they still chose to deliberately allow the Androids to be activated so they could challenge themselves.

It's a not just a fucking miracle that the main cast are as strong as they are, but it's a fucking miracle that Universe 7 hasn't been destroyed already when you think about.

And take this into account... considering that only one universe has a lower mortal rating than Universe 7 (Universe 9), I think it's safe to say that the Hakaishin and Kaioshin of Universe 2, 3, 4, 6, 10 & 11 were just doing a better job of managing their universes by making sure that shit like Freeza terrorizing the galaxy for what felt like an eternity, the Androids causing havoc and Majin Boo running amok in the universe for God knows how long, never happened and/or were quickly nipped in the bud. Although it's clear to see that the Hakaishin and Kaioshin of the other universes weren't doing their job to the best of their ability considering the mortal levels for those universes is still below the acceptable standard, so some shit still went down in those other universes that they are very much accountable for. But it was nowhere near the level of catastrophes that happened in the train-wreck universe that is Universe 7 and didn't also coincidentally benefit from it as much as the main cast of Universe 7 did.

[TheZFighter]

^ Good post.

Who says that each universe HAS to have a "SSG level fighter"?

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Exactly, people who have absolutely no influence on the creative direction of this franchise.

Does having lots of "SSG level fighters" not kinda devalue them?

Personally I quite like how things have been done so far. I know which characters I want to see more of.

[precita]

To be fair most of the fighters seem to range around SSJ1-SSJ2 power.

Which means the main cast up to the end of the Cell saga would have had a difficult time taking some characters down. The mere fact that the Trio de Dangers were as strong as Perfect Cell or more says a lot. That means our Universe 7 would have been screwed if the TOP took place during the Cell saga era, or even early Buu saga.

[TheZFighter]

To be fair most of the fighters seem to range around SSJ1-SSJ2 power.

Which means the main cast up to the end of the Cell saga would have had a difficult time taking some characters down. The mere fact that the Trio de Dangers were as strong as Perfect Cell or more says a lot. That means our Universe 7 would have been screwed if the TOP took place during the Cell saga era, or even early Buu saga.

Yes. "Total fodder" is a total exaggeration.

[Zagacious]

Just because you can come up with reasons that explain why they are so weak, doesn't make it any better. At the beginning of the tournament the excuse was "Just be patient we'll get important and worthy opponents fighting later on", and then slowly but surely everyone came to the realization they're not going to do jack sh*t with 90% of these characters, not even giving them decent fights, but instead just having everyone being completely annihilated by mostly U7 with maybe 3 or 4 matches that are relatively close in power. You can explain it by saying that Universe 7 has much more trouble in their universe, but does that really make any sense statistically that out of 7 other universes, only 4 or 5 fighters from them are beyond Cell/SS2 level?

No explanation is going to fix the problem that it's not exciting to have people defeated with no challenge. I don't see how people are getting excited over the latest Ribrianne episode where Android 18 basically two shotted Ribrianne after she transformed, calling it a 10/10 and such. I was expecting Ribrianne to at least be stronger than 18, who hasn't even been training really, she's even weaker than her and that's pretty sad that a character that kept popping up for like 10 episodes is that weak, IMO the true definition of waste. There's nothing wrong with the character except that she's far too weak to matter, but that's significant. All they had to do was make her at least strong enough to give a challenge for the Androids, and it would have made a HUGE difference.

[TekTheNinja]

Who says that each universe HAS to have a "SSG level fighter"?

People who want a tense and entertaining tournament that's more than just a squash match say that. Duh. Besides, other universes where we have no idea what kind of shit everyone there has gone through is the perfect opportunity to introduce characters that can actually pose a challenge, but that was squandered.

Exactly, people who have absolutely no influence on the creative direction of this franchise.

I'm gonna try not to be too rude, and I mean no offense, but I also ain't gonna sugarcoat this, that's a stupid-ass response. "Oh, people want an actually good tournament with tense fights? Well they have no say on how it goes, so there!" I mean fucking duh. That adds nothing to the conversation though. Of course we're not making the damn show. The point is we want a quality tournament and not a boring squash match. When universe 7 doesn't appear to be struggling at all, YOU HAVE FAILED.