Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[TheBlackPaladin]

So, not to derail the conversation, but have there been any updates on the Ocean dub of Kai?

[Arian]

So, not to derail the conversation, but have there been any updates on the Ocean dub of Kai?

Not since the 5th of November. We all have to sit tight and make filler until Marni Shulman or some representative gives us an update, whether it be negative or positive.

[TheBlackPaladin]

So, not to derail the conversation, but have there been any updates on the Ocean dub of Kai?

Not since the 5th of November. We all have to sit tight and make filler until Marni Shulman or some representative gives us an update, whether it be negative or positive.

So the conversations about the Ocean and Westwood dubs in general are the "filler arc" of this thread until that point?

[8000 Saiyan]

Search deep enough and you'll find any kind of opinion lol I think opinions like that are just trying to protect Funimation. I can't imagine anyone objectively thinking that McNeil's Piccolo is any worse than Sabat's, for example. At least not his Piccolo. When he makes voices for other characters and makes silly voices, then yes he does sound like a cartoon villain from the 80's... but that's mainly because McNeil did voice so many cartoon characters from the 90's and even 80's.

Well, when it comes to Sabat vs. McNeil, that stuff is subjective, much like all art is subjective. Unfortunately, there are some people who think their opinion is fact and belittle anyone for having different opinions. It reminds me of this Australian Kanzenshuu member who acted as if Kelamis and Morrow being terrible as Goku was a fact.

So, not to derail the conversation, but have there been any updates on the Ocean dub of Kai?

Not since the 5th of November. We all have to sit tight and make filler until Marni Shulman or some representative gives us an update, whether it be negative or positive.

So the conversations about the Ocean and Westwood dubs in general are the "filler arc" of this thread until that point?

Indeed they are.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

So, not to derail the conversation, but have there been any updates on the Ocean dub of Kai?

I check Twitter regularly, but nothing yet. I do hope Marni will be allowed to give us even a vague indication that this dub will be aired without outright stating. Otherwise I'd like to think Bell Media will mention Kai as an acquisition in a press release of some sort. Not sure how else we'd expect to hear more as Lee Tockar has been really quiet, but fingers crossed some progress is being made.

[SX10]

Marni's last update suggests to me that she managed to get through to the right people who directed her to other folks she'll have to include in these talks/ negotiations. It certainly didn't seem negative or hopeless.

I imagine things are still being discussed and worked out, hence the silence. But I agreed with someone here earlier that if there were any updates on twitter, it would more than likely be bad news.

Soooo, I dunno, but fingers crossed. I took Brendan Hunter liking the tweets as a good sign.

[8000 Saiyan]

Marni's last update suggests to me that she managed to get through to the right people who directed her to other folks she'll have to include in these talks/ negotiations. It certainly didn't seem negative or hopeless.

I imagine things are still being discussed and worked out, hence the silence. But I agreed with someone here earlier that if there were any updates on twitter, it would more than likely be bad news.

Soooo, I dunno, but fingers crossed. I took Brendan Hunter liking the tweets as a good sign.

That's cool.

[TheGreatness25]

Well, when it comes to Sabat vs. McNeil, that stuff is subjective, much like all art is subjective. Unfortunately, there are some people who think their opinion is fact and belittle anyone for having different opinions. It reminds me of this Australian Kanzenshuu member who acted as if Kelamis and Morrow being terrible as Goku was a fact.

Yeah, I know that all art is subjective, I just feel like there's no way that Sabat's Piccolo can touch McNeil's in any way. I understand Vegeta, I understand Goku, I understand Kurilin, but not Piccolo. Maybe because even after all these years, Piccolo still sounds more or less like he did when Sabat was trying to imitate McNeil back during "Season 3." Vegeta, Goku, Kurilin, and all of the other characters more or less went down their own route and distanced away from the imitations while Piccolo's voice remains almost the same as since day one.

The truth is, it really comes down to what someone is used to. That's why nobody ever wins at these arguments. Someone who grew up loving the Funimation dub above all else will always put down the Ocean dub and will always come back "Goku sounds like a girl in the Japanese version!" Those who grew up loving the Ocean dub above all else will always claim that Funimation sounds like a cheap rip-off, even though they've done their own thing since roughly "Season 6." And those who grew up loving the Japanese version just simply can't even bring themselves to give the dubs a shot.

Of course not all fans are like that, but it does exist. Personally, I'm not so locked into what I grew up with because... well, I grew up with many different versions. I loved the Ocean dub and was a little sour when they changed in "Season 3," grew to accept the dub, and then immediately after saw the Japanese version. And somewhere in there, I watched the Mexican dub on Telemundo, being amazed with the different music and "extra scenes" to the Ocean dub airing on Toonami. So personally, I welcome any edition of Dragon Ball. I've wanted to watch the Ocean/Westwood version of the dub forever now and finally having gotten to watch it, it's great. Don't know, I don't look at Dragon Ball the same as many others; to me, I welcome as many different versions of it as possible. I don't care about "facts" or "inconsistencies," I just like it all.

With that said, the majority of my Dragon Ball experience has been with the Funimation dub and yet, I feel that in some areas (Piccolo, Vegeta, the original and final Z Goku) blows Funimation out of the water. I'm not necessarily saying that the Ocean cast's performance in the later Z dub was fantastic, but we know about the direction issues they had. I've seen them with good direction (albeit poor translations) for the first two arcs, so taking that into consideration along with their actual voices, I feel that a real, raw, unedited dub by them would be awesome. Funimation has come a long way, but I love me some Ocean.

And as for Scott McNeil, I find his Piccolo to be absolutely perfect. When he's playing other characters, he can put his natural silly spin on them, but he play Piccolo straight and it's off the charts.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Marni's last update suggests to me that she managed to get through to the right people who directed her to other folks she'll have to include in these talks/ negotiations. It certainly didn't seem negative or hopeless.

I imagine things are still being discussed and worked out, hence the silence. But I agreed with someone here earlier that if there were any updates on twitter, it would more than likely be bad news.

Soooo, I dunno, but fingers crossed. I took Brendan Hunter liking the tweets as a good sign.

Optimistically speaking I have similar suspicions. I mean, if the dub was written off and had no chance of getting a release you'd think Marni's first call and inquiry about Ocean Kai would have been rejected without hesitation. On the other hand, as others have said, these things take time and it's really none of our business so if there's been no update in just over 3 weeks it could be theorized that negotiations are still ongoing. I suspect a long wait one way or the other before we know what's happening, but maybe, just maybe it will be good news for this never-say-never wonder of a franchise.

[SX10]

Never-say-never is right! I love it haha! It's true, the wait will be long. Marni's blurb on her twitter and her whole attitude is that of a pretty cool person. If the news were bad, it would likely be bad by now, and she would let us down and emphasise that she tried, I think.

I can only (optimistically) speculate. They're gonna make her sign an NDA though, aren't they? Argh! Haha!

[Arian]

Never-say-never is right! I love it haha! It's true, the wait will be long. Marni's blurb on her twitter and her whole attitude is that of a pretty cool person. If the news were bad, it would likely be bad by now, and she would let us down and emphasise that she tried, I think.

I can only (optimistically) speculate. They're gonna make her sign an NDA though, aren't they? Argh! Haha!

True, but at least we got the ball rolling with her!

[TheBlackPaladin]

Never-say-never is right! I love it haha! It's true, the wait will be long. Marni's blurb on her twitter and her whole attitude is that of a pretty cool person. If the news were bad, it would likely be bad by now, and she would let us down and emphasise that she tried, I think.

I can only (optimistically) speculate. They're gonna make her sign an NDA though, aren't they? Argh! Haha!

True, but at least we got the ball rolling with her!

Very true, and I think we should all be grateful to Marni just for trying, whether something actually happens with this or not. She seems like a cool person!

As for whether anything will come of this...I don't want to get my hopes up only to be bummed out again, but I have to say, the fact that she mentioned talking to people, followed by silence, is a good sign. It's not a guarantee, but silence usually means negotiations are getting at least somewhat serious, because successful or "in-the-works" licensing negotiations, as a matter of business protocol, are not supposed to be public knowledge. If things failed, there's nothing stopping her from saying so, but if things are proceeding, it means she has to keep quiet.......

Then again, there's a couple things about this dub that are public knowledge that weren't supposed to be. We can start with the fact that this dub exists.

[Arian]

There's a couple things about this dub that are public knowledge that weren't supposed to be. We can start with the fact that this dub exists.

Good point, but at the end of the day, I don't think Ocean or Toei would or should care that much so long as they're making money with a TV deal.

[SX10]

Some of the bigger deals going on in the world, like this Disney/ Fox business, you will notice that we get the reports of when negotiations start, but until something is finalised we see and hear nothing. Not that this is anywhere near the same scale but it's definitely similar.

I sort of understand why Toei didn't option Ocean Kai for the UK. It's not the early 00's anymore, they want a uniform approach to solidify their brand and Funi are the traditional western company for English dubbing.

Maybe some of the creative differences were a little too bold (pronounciations etc.) for the UK matket place; whose target audience were not around for the "dub wars" and more likely to be exposed to Funimation's brand.

Canada IS the exception. I wonder when the channel will launch though. Either Q1 or (more likely) Q2 2018?

[Arian]

Some of the bigger deals going on in the world, like this Disney/ Fox business, you will notice that we get the reports of when negotiations start, but until something is finalised we see and hear nothing. Not that this is anywhere near the same scale but it's definitely similar.

I sort of understand why Toei didn't option Ocean Kai for the UK. It's not the early 00's anymore, they want a uniform approach to solidify their brand and Funi are the traditional western company for English dubbing.

Maybe some of the creative differences were a little too bold (pronounciations etc.) for the UK matket place; whose target audience were not around for the "dub wars" and more likely to be exposed to Funimation's brand.

The thing is though, as Canadians we were exposed to FUNimation's brand A LOT. I'm talking video games, home videos, over 100 episodes of the TV broadcast even.

Even to this day, it astonishes me that YTV would throw away what was a working relationship with FUNimation just to acquire an alternate dub that they were in favor of. THAT shows dedication to something. As much of a good thing as it was, we didn't technically need Ocean's dub the same way Europe did.

I wonder when the channel will launch though. Either Q1 or (more likely) Q2 2018?

Now that's a really good question. Nobody really knows other than the insiders at Wow! Unlimited. Other questions I have are things that I have to worry about such as "Will this channel be available on every cable provider or just Bell?" "Will the channel be in HD?" Things like that. I expect further developments to be laid out after Christmas so I guess we just have to sit tight with our Ocean Z tapes until then.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I sort of understand why Toei didn't option Ocean Kai for the UK. It's not the early 00's anymore, they want a uniform approach to solidify their brand and Funi are the traditional western company for English dubbing.

Except they had no issue with South East Asia, a market that for at least the past 10 years was fully Funimation, going ahead with an entirely frivolous alternate dub of Dragon Ball Super.

I wonder when the channel will launch though. Either Q1 or (more likely) Q2 2018?

Far likelier to be the third or fourth quarter of calendar 2018. The Canadian government still hasn't approved the channel's sale. That'll probably be an early 2018 development.

Even to this day, it astonishes me that YTV would throw away what was a working relationship with FUNimation just to acquire an alternate dub that they were in favor of. THAT shows dedication to something. As much of a good thing as it was, we didn't technically need Ocean's dub the same way Europe did.

There wasn't ever much of a working relationship between the two. Outside of the bits and pieces of Dragon Ball they picked up, YTV's only other Funimation pickups were the original Fullmetal Alchemist (+ movie) and the first 26 episodes of Case Closed. The former's success didn't lead to much (Brotherhood wound up on the obscure Superchannel service in Canada), while the latter was an extremely rare instance of a show YTV pulled prematurely.

Other questions I have are things that I have to worry about such as "Will this channel be available on every cable provider or just Bell?" "Will the channel be in HD?" Things like that. I expect further developments to be laid out after Christmas so I guess we just have to sit tight with our Ocean Z tapes until then.

The channel will just be a rebrand of Comedy Gold. Consult your local cable/satellite/IPTV carrier's lineup to see if you have access to it. I know multiple non-Bell BDUs have it (Rogers being the biggest), but rarely in the most widespread of packages.

As it stands today, Comedy Gold is only available in standard definition. Though, that can easily change, especially now that it's going to transition from a library dump to a channel running modern productions.

[Scsigs]

Even to this day, it astonishes me that YTV would throw away what was a working relationship with FUNimation just to acquire an alternate dub that they were in favor of. THAT shows dedication to something. As much of a good thing as it was, we didn't technically need Ocean's dub the same way Europe did.

You DO know in Canada, there's a law that expressly tells TV stations that at least half or so of their daily broadcast schedule HAS to be Canadian-produced content, right? While I'm sure they were perfectly content with showing FUNi's American dub of the show, if it meant freeing up space by showing the Canadian-produced dub, I'm pretty sure they were perfectly content with switching over to that one too. It was shown in Europe to save the broadcasters money in the licensing of the voice work, & it was shown in Canada to save the broadcasters a space of airtime, I'm sure.

[sangofe]

Marni's last update suggests to me that she managed to get through to the right people who directed her to other folks she'll have to include in these talks/ negotiations. It certainly didn't seem negative or hopeless.

I imagine things are still being discussed and worked out, hence the silence. But I agreed with someone here earlier that if there were any updates on twitter, it would more than likely be bad news.

Soooo, I dunno, but fingers crossed. I took Brendan Hunter liking the tweets as a good sign.

Cool, could you please link to the update?

[Arian]

There wasn't ever much of a working relationship between the two. Outside of the bits and pieces of Dragon Ball they picked up, YTV's only other Funimation pickups were the original Fullmetal Alchemist (+ movie) and the first 26 episodes of Case Closed. The former's success didn't lead to much (Brotherhood wound up on the obscure Superchannel service in Canada), while the latter was an extremely rare instance of a show YTV pulled prematurely.

Perhaps not, but actually the reason YTV only picked up 3 titles from FUNimation is because of a dispute that stemmed from YTV picking up the Ocean dub mid-Cell Games Saga. Started in 2001, ceased in 2006 when they stopped airing Dragon Ball properties altogether.

You DO know in Canada, there's a law that expressly tells TV stations that at least half or so of their daily broadcast schedule HAS to be Canadian-produced content, right? While I'm sure they were perfectly content with showing FUNi's American dub of the show, if it meant freeing up space by showing the Canadian-produced dub, I'm pretty sure they were perfectly content with switching over to that one too. It was shown in Europe to save the broadcasters money in the licensing of the voice work, & it was shown in Canada to save the broadcasters a space of airtime, I'm sure.

Of course I know, and you make a good point, but like I'm telling SSP, it was also the reason YTV couldn't pick up any of FUNi's other titles such as Yu Yu Hakusho, Gunslinger Girl, Fruits Basket, Blue Gender, Samurai 7, etc.

Marni's last update suggests to me that she managed to get through to the right people who directed her to other folks she'll have to include in these talks/ negotiations. It certainly didn't seem negative or hopeless.

I imagine things are still being discussed and worked out, hence the silence. But I agreed with someone here earlier that if there were any updates on twitter, it would more than likely be bad news.

Soooo, I dunno, but fingers crossed. I took Brendan Hunter liking the tweets as a good sign.

Cool, could you please link to the update?

Sure, here: https://twitter.com/shomi_marni/status/ ... 7795988485

[Super Sayian Prime]

There wasn't ever much of a working relationship between the two. Outside of the bits and pieces of Dragon Ball they picked up, YTV's only other Funimation pickups were the original Fullmetal Alchemist (+ movie) and the first 26 episodes of Case Closed. The former's success didn't lead to much (Brotherhood wound up on the obscure Superchannel service in Canada), while the latter was an extremely rare instance of a show YTV pulled prematurely.

Perhaps not, but actually the reason YTV only picked up 3 titles from FUNimation is because of a dispute that stemmed from YTV picking up the Ocean dub mid-Cell Games Saga. Started in 2001, ceased in 2006 when they stopped airing Dragon Ball properties altogether.

I know that was a common fan rumour, but I'd like to know if there was ever any direct statement of a beef between the two. YTV's sister company had absolutely no problem working with Funimation before 2006.