The original Super Saiyan revealed!

[Totamo]

We aren't going to take this seriously right? Because I guarantee you, he didn't and I perfectly ok with that.

[Totamo]

Wait, I am so confused. I thought the traditional "gold form" was the SSJ of legend, not SSJ god? If it was god that everyone was talking about, then where does the gold form come from?

Also, are we to believe that Yamoshi's SSJGod form was as strong as Goku's when he foguht Beerus? Because if that is the case, then no way could a bunch of average saiyans with PLs below 1000 have taken him out. That wouldn't make any sense. I ma guessing that Yamoshi's god form was weaker to due to him having a far weaker base than DBS Goku

If the amount of S-cells are dependent on the environment, why could Future Gohan and Trunks turn SSJ?

Super saiyan has always changed since Namek, ok. Vegeta himself never should have gotten it.

[Meshack]

Wait, I am so confused. I thought the traditional "gold form" was the SSJ of legend, not SSJ god? If it was god that everyone was talking about, then where does the gold form come from?

Also, are we to believe that Yamoshi's SSJGod form was as strong as Goku's when he foguht Beerus? Because if that is the case, then no way could a bunch of average saiyans with PLs below 1000 have taken him out. That wouldn't make any sense. I ma guessing that Yamoshi's god form was weaker to due to him having a far weaker base than DBS Goku

If the amount of S-cells are dependent on the environment, why could Future Gohan and Trunks turn SSJ?

Yamoshi is the legendary Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan God. Yamoshi was the first to transform into the legendary form. Yamoshi was never able to tranform into God. I’ll explain it better to you: Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan. He died. His soul wandered until it came across six new righteous Saiyans. One of the six became the Super Saiyan God. The Saiyan died. Yamoshi's soul is the reason the six righteous Saiyans can become a Super Saiyan God. And no, they aren’t trying to make us believe that the Saiyan in God was as strong as Gokuh against Beerus. The two have vastly differently battle powers to be the same in power.

About Gohan and Trunks, having a good environment isn’t the sole factor to become a Super Saiyan. Having a gentle environment just helps. Gohan and Trunks are halfbreeds and have more potential and presumably more S-cells than the average Saiyan. A high battle power is also a favtor into transforming so that’s how they transformed.

[AvatarReiko]

Wait, I am so confused. I thought the traditional "gold form" was the SSJ of legend, not SSJ god? If it was god that everyone was talking about, then where does the gold form come from?

Also, are we to believe that Yamoshi's SSJGod form was as strong as Goku's when he foguht Beerus? Because if that is the case, then no way could a bunch of average saiyans with PLs below 1000 have taken him out. That wouldn't make any sense. I ma guessing that Yamoshi's god form was weaker to due to him having a far weaker base than DBS Goku

If the amount of S-cells are dependent on the environment, why could Future Gohan and Trunks turn SSJ?

Yamoshi is the legendary Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan God. Yamoshi was the first to transform into the legendary form. Yamoshi was never able to tranform into God. I’ll explain it better to you: Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan. He died. His soul wandered until it came across six new righteous Saiyans. One of the six became the Super Saiyan God. The Saiyan died. Yamoshi's soul is the reason the six righteous Saiyans can become a Super Saiyan God. And no, they aren’t trying to make us believe that the Saiyan in God was as strong as Gokuh against Beerus. The two have vastly differently battle powers to be the same in power.

About Gohan and Trunks, having a good environment isn’t the sole factor to become a Super Saiyan. Having a gentle environment just helps. Gohan and Trunks are halfbreeds and have more potential and presumably more S-cells than the average Saiyan. A high battle power is also a favtor into transforming so that’s how they transformed.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense now. So Yamoshi was the first achieve the golden form and that's the one of legend that Frieza was scared of, not SSJ God? Did AT say whether or not the six pure hearted saiyans could also use the "Gold SSJ form"?

[sintzu]

I'm not a fan of this because it kind of takes away Goku being great because of hard work, not due to being special like what other Shonen do. One of the major points of the Saiyan arc was to establish Goku as a nobody but that even low class can reach greatness with enough hard work.

I also don't like this whole "the original ssj is a spirit" cause it could turn into Goku being him all along as a reincarnation to explain why he's been able to do what he does.

[Meshack]

Wait, I am so confused. I thought the traditional "gold form" was the SSJ of legend, not SSJ god? If it was god that everyone was talking about, then where does the gold form come from?

Also, are we to believe that Yamoshi's SSJGod form was as strong as Goku's when he foguht Beerus? Because if that is the case, then no way could a bunch of average saiyans with PLs below 1000 have taken him out. That wouldn't make any sense. I ma guessing that Yamoshi's god form was weaker to due to him having a far weaker base than DBS Goku

If the amount of S-cells are dependent on the environment, why could Future Gohan and Trunks turn SSJ?

Yamoshi is the legendary Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan God. Yamoshi was the first to transform into the legendary form. Yamoshi was never able to tranform into God. I’ll explain it better to you: Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan. He died. His soul wandered until it came across six new righteous Saiyans. One of the six became the Super Saiyan God. The Saiyan died. Yamoshi's soul is the reason the six righteous Saiyans can become a Super Saiyan God. And no, they aren’t trying to make us believe that the Saiyan in God was as strong as Gokuh against Beerus. The two have vastly differently battle powers to be the same in power.

About Gohan and Trunks, having a good environment isn’t the sole factor to become a Super Saiyan. Having a gentle environment just helps. Gohan and Trunks are halfbreeds and have more potential and presumably more S-cells than the average Saiyan. A high battle power is also a favtor into transforming so that’s how they transformed.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense now. So Yamoshi was the first achieve the golden form and that's the one of legend that Frieza was scared of, not SSJ God? Did AT say whether or not the six pure hearted saiyans could also use the "Gold SSJ form"?

No, he didn’t say and most likely not since he didn’t mention they could become a Super Saiyan. Though, I like to imagine that since Kale’s Super Saiyan is said to be the legendary form, I like to think that Yamoshi has the green hair and muscular body that Kale has when she transforms. I will think that until they specifically say or show that Yamoshi had the golden form.

[Meshack]

I'm not a fan of this because it kind of takes away Goku being great because of hard work, not due to being special like what other Shonen do. One of the major points of the Saiyan arc was to establish Goku as a nobody but that even low class can reach greatness with enough hard work. Yamoshi’s spirit or soul comes into play during the ceremony for Super Saiyan God, not Super Saiyan.

I also don't like this whole "the original ssj is a spirit" cause it could turn into Goku being him all along as a reincarnation to explain why he's been able to do what he does.

Yamoshi was not a spirit when he first transformed. How can a spirit transform? It can’t. Yamoshi was well alive when he transformed but died in battle. Gokuh is not some reincarnation.

What Toriyama explained doesn’t take away from Gokuh achieving greatness from hard work. Training, as Toriyama said, is part of becoming a Super Saiyan. You need a high battle power to transform and that’s what Gokuh had.

[sintzu]

Yamoshi was not a spirit when he first transformed. How can a spirit transform? It can’t. Yamoshi was well alive when he transformed but died in battle. Gokuh is not some reincarnation.

What Toriyama explained doesn’t take away from Gokuh achieving greatness from hard work. Training, as Toriyama said, is part of becoming a Super Saiyan. You need a high battle power to transform and that’s what Gokuh had.

In the previous page it says he was defeated while being a Ssj1 and afterwards his spirit has been looking for who can become SsjG.

You also need those S cells so if someone doesn't have them or not enough then they won't be able to regardless of how much work they do. It goes back to what kind of blood the Saiyan has at birth, something the Saiyan arc was completely against when it came to who can become strong.

[Meshack]

Yamoshi was not a spirit when he first transformed. How can a spirit transform? It can’t. Yamoshi was well alive when he transformed but died in battle. Gokuh is not some reincarnation.

What Toriyama explained doesn’t take away from Gokuh achieving greatness from hard work. Training, as Toriyama said, is part of becoming a Super Saiyan. You need a high battle power to transform and that’s what Gokuh had.

In the previous page it says he was defeated while being a Ssj1 and afterwards his spirit has been looking for who can become SsjG.

You also need those S cells so if someone doesn't have them or not enough then they won't be able to regardless of how much work they do. It goes back to what kind of blood the Saiyan has at birth, something the Saiyan arc was completely against when it came to who can become strong.

Did you read anything I said?

[Deathbringer]

If Yamoshi became a wandering spirit then maybe that explains why Goku was talking so differently when he first became a super saiyan? Maybe it was the remnants of Yamoshi's spirit which was eventually expelled from Goku's body and his spirit was finally able to rest after Goku had gotten used to the form? It would explain why Goku was saying all those things on Namek without knowing much about what a Super Saiyan is, not that I'm a fan of retcons especially when it comes to the most important moments in the series.

Also S Cells are basically Bruits Waves for a new generation and it mostly lines up with what everyone already assumed about things like why Goten and Trunks were so easily able to become Super Saiyan.

[AloversGaming]

I'm not a fan of this because it kind of takes away Goku being great because of hard work, not due to being special like what other Shonen do. One of the major points of the Saiyan arc was to establish Goku as a nobody but that even low class can reach greatness with enough hard work.

I also don't like this whole "the original ssj is a spirit" cause it could turn into Goku being him all along as a reincarnation to explain why he's been able to do what he does.

While I agree with it taking away the original "surpass your genes" story the Saiya-Jin arc had; it doesn't take anything away from Goku that SSJ didn't already do. The SSJ forms have always been cop-outs. The only reason Son Goku, Gohan, Vegeta etc. etc. have done so well in life since Namek has been because of their genes. If they were human, Namekians, etc. they'd never have stood a chance against some of the beings they faced. SSJ has always been BS. Now at least we get more detailed lore on how it works.

To quote Kelfa - "Hooray for being born a Saiya-jin!"

If anything this makes the current SSJ's like Goku more special now that it has been confirmed not all Saiya-Jin can become SSJ. Greatness is built into Goku's DNA, but the level of power he has reached has been due to his own hard work.

Now if only this "not all can become SSJ" was used for Super it'd be great. Not everyone needs golden hair.

[mute_proxy]

I don't understand the idea behind "his spirit wandering to find 6 righteous saiyans". What exactly was his involvement in SSGod? And why 6? How'd the ritual came to be? It doesnt explain anything about SSGod actually.

[TheMikado]

Yikes this makes all the stories make even less sense now. Especially Vegeta and Caulifa becoming SSJ and also why does Kale turns into a raging maniac based on these requirements??

[BrolyKale]

After 30 years he decided to reveal this... whats the point? and why is Kale so different? explain it pls

[mute_proxy]

After 30 years he decided to reveal this... whats the point? and why is Kale so different? explain it pls

Midichlorians overflew Kale's body, so much that some seeped into her brain making her nuts and also having difficulty containing them her body "blew" up?

[BrolyKale]

After 30 years he decided to reveal this... whats the point? and why is Kale so different? explain it pls

Midichlorians overflew Kale's body, so much that some seeped into her brain making her nuts and also having difficulty containing them her body "blew" up?

That makes sense...

joke aside if Kale has the "original/legendary" form, it makes less sense......

[LightBing]

I'm not a fan of this because it kind of takes away Goku being great because of hard work, not due to being special like what other Shonen do. One of the major points of the Saiyan arc was to establish Goku as a nobody but that even low class can reach greatness with enough hard work.

I also don't like this whole "the original ssj is a spirit" cause it could turn into Goku being him all along as a reincarnation to explain why he's been able to do what he does.

That was never a theme. Goku has always been a prodigy, even during the Saiyan Arc this is implied. Like when we're told about the x10 gravity, one of the main reasons the Saiyans are so strong. Goku given equal conditions for a few months becomes stronger than Nappa one of the elites.

When he learns the Kaioken and Genki Dama hard-work isn't mentioned once, Kaio very much implies Goku's special by barely observing him and concluding he's so amazing that he could potentially learn the Kaioken, something which Kaio himself was never able to do.

Then there's the rest of Dragon Ball. Goku isn't equal or better than Vegeta for most of Dragon Ball because of hard-work, in fact it's said Vegeta's the one who works harder. Vegeta the character who's supposedly the biggest pure-blood Saiyan prodigy.

Goku telling Vegeta off doesn't mean he incorporates the hard-working character who's surpassing the prodigy. Goku only was a weakling because he was put in a soft environment with weak opponents. The irony is that this environment while making him weaker initially(compared to other Saiyans) contributed for him to get SSJ so easily.

[Meshack]

I don't understand the idea behind "his spirit wandering to find 6 righteous saiyans". What exactly was his involvement in SSGod? And why 6? How'd the ritual came to be? It doesnt explain anything about SSGod actually.

Six because Yamoshi and his comrades were a group of six. Presumably, Yamoshi's spirit is the reason why one can become a Super Saiyan God.

[Meshack]

Yikes this makes all the stories make even less sense now. Especially Vegeta and Caulifa becoming SSJ and also why does Kale turns into a raging maniac based on these requirements??

I don’t understand the problem with Vegeta and Caulifla but Kale is easy to tackle because this stuff is explained in the show.

Kale, when she cannot control her power due to jealously or whatever, she turns into the berserk Kale we see when first transformed and again against Gokuh. When she can control her power, she becomes what is seen here: https://imgur.com/74vCx90 Super Saiyan is not all about being gentle. It is just the means of getting it.

[Meshack]

After 30 years he decided to reveal this... whats the point? and why is Kale so different? explain it pls

Midichlorians overflew Kale's body, so much that some seeped into her brain making her nuts and also having difficulty containing them her body "blew" up?

That makes sense...

joke aside if Kale has the "original/legendary" form, it makes less sense......

How?