The original Super Saiyan revealed!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't understand the idea behind "his spirit wandering to find 6 righteous saiyans". What exactly was his involvement in SSGod? And why 6? How'd the ritual came to be? It doesnt explain anything about SSGod actually.

Six because Yamoshi and his comrades were a group of six. Presumably, Yamoshi's spirit is the reason why one can become a Super Saiyan God.

I think the better question is why Yamoshi's spirit didn't go straight to the checking station

Same reason why some spirits in our real world don't pass on immediately. You're also under the assumption that Sadala had a check in system.

[TKA]

Fuck yeah!

I love Toriyama!

Not everyone can become a Super Saiyan, regardless of how strong you are. Simply wonderful. Then, he went further by confirming that you need a certain base power to even become Super Saiyan (was stated by Goku while training Gohan during the Cell Arc but everyone seems to forget; also screw that Bardock Super Saiyan thing). So many OCs and fanfics dying.

Toriyama, I love you

Toriyama just midichlorians'd the franchise, and just like the original midichlorians, it is simply an amazing addition to the series' lore. It explains why you need "a tranquil heart," while simultaneously explaining Goten and Trunks. There was always likely a genetic component to those two going Super Saiyan, but it's nice to have confirmation. In hindsight, this makes Piccolo kidnapping Gohan a major blunder on his part (not that he could've known); had he just left the kid to live a peaceful life he could've gotten enough S cells to become a Super Saiyain in about 2 more years (of course, Gohan is obviously a different kind of hybrid than Goten and Trunks, so who's to really say for sure that he would've developed as quickly as they did [also, he likely wouldn't have had enough base power to transform anyway]?).

As an aside, getting a lot of buddhist overtones from this. Any religion, really. Being calm, gentle and tranquil opens up more doors for you. In addition, there's good dramatic irony in the fact that the saiyans hampered their own growth by being so violent. In essence, their pursuit of strength made them weak.

And this ties back to the saiyans casting away Goku because he was so weak (ignoring Dragonball Minus), only for him to come and be their redemption. This is the first bit of lore in a long while that feels so complete and actually adds to the story's thematic structure rather than detract. Simply wonderful.

And also the obvious "fuck you" to Broly.

[Meshack]

I don't understand the idea behind "his spirit wandering to find 6 righteous saiyans". What exactly was his involvement in SSGod? And why 6? How'd the ritual came to be? It doesnt explain anything about SSGod actually.

Six because Yamoshi and his comrades were a group of six. Presumably, Yamoshi's spirit is the reason why one can become a Super Saiyan God.

I think the better question is why Yamoshi's spirit didn't go straight to the checking station

Yamoshi had the Revive-Revive Fruit.

[BrolyKale]

Fuck yeah!

I love Toriyama!

Not everyone can become a Super Saiyan, regardless of how strong you are. Simply wonderful. Then, he went further by confirming that you need a certain base power to even become Super Saiyan (was stated by Goku while training Gohan during the Cell Arc but everyone seems to forget; also screw that Bardock Super Saiyan thing). So many OCs and fanfics dying.

Toriyama, I love you

Toriyama just midichlorians'd the franchise, and just like the original midichlorians, it is simply an amazing addition to the series' lore. It explains why you need "a tranquil heart," while simultaneously explaining Goten and Trunks. There was always likely a genetic component to those two going Super Saiyan, but it's nice to have confirmation. In hindsight, this makes Piccolo kidnapping Gohan a major blunder on his part (not that he could've known); had he just left the kid to live a peaceful life he could've gotten enough S cells to become a Super Saiyain in about 2 more years (of course, Gohan is obviously a different kind of hybrid than Goten and Trunks, so who's to really say for sure that he would've developed as quickly as they did [also, he likely wouldn't have had enough base power to transform anyway]?).

As an aside, getting a lot of buddhist overtones from this. Any religion, really. Being calm, gentle and tranquil opens up more doors for you. In addition, there's good dramatic irony in the fact that the saiyans hampered their own growth by being so violent. In essence, their pursuit of strength made them weak.

And this ties back to the saiyans casting away Goku because he was so weak (ignoring Dragonball Minus), only for him to come and be their redemption. This is the first bit of lore in a long while that feels so complete and actually adds to the story's thematic structure rather than detract. Simply wonderful.

And also the obvious "fuck you" to Broly.

Well, every Saiyans can become a SSJ if they have enough S-Cells and power. The easiest way to gain/earn more S-Cells is to have a "tranquil heart" there are probably other ways to gain more S-Cells, so at the end every Saiyans can become a SSJ they just have to train and become more powerful and gain more S-Cells. Why the "fuck you broly"? Broly is still the legendary super saiyan, it doesn't matter if he is a villain, that just means Broly had enough S-Cells and power to achieve SSJ, just like Kale. Kale and Broly are the only Saiyans who represent Yamoshi's form, one is bad and the other is good.

[Grimlock]

Then, he went further by confirming that you need a certain base power to even become Super Saiyan (was stated by Goku while training Gohan during the Cell Arc but everyone seems to forget; also screw that Bardock Super Saiyan thing).

Well, if you're saying that regarding to Bardock under the power level subject, it also doen't affect him in this, as Bardock received Zenkai, he got hit by Freeza's technique and got recovered.

[TKA]

Then, he went further by confirming that you need a certain base power to even become Super Saiyan (was stated by Goku while training Gohan during the Cell Arc but everyone seems to forget; also screw that Bardock Super Saiyan thing).

Well, if you're saying that regarding to Bardock under the power level subject, it also doen't affect him in this, as Bardock received Zenkai, he got hit by Freeza's technique and got recovered.

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

But I digress. Don't wanna turn this into a circular power level discussion.

[Meshack]

Then, he went further by confirming that you need a certain base power to even become Super Saiyan (was stated by Goku while training Gohan during the Cell Arc but everyone seems to forget; also screw that Bardock Super Saiyan thing).

Well, if you're saying that regarding to Bardock under the power level subject, it also doen't affect him in this, as Bardock received Zenkai, he got hit by Freeza's technique and got recovered.

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

But I digress. Don't wanna turn this into a circular power level discussion.

Vegeta had the power but not the gentleness or righteousness the Saiyan needed.

[Grimlock]

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

Is it really? Because there's also Goku's case to be analyzed back in Freeza saga, the amount of Zenkai he got was also huge. This tells us that the amount of power one can get through zenkai may simply vary. Besides other factors too.

[BrolyKale]

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

Is it really? Because there's also Goku's case to be analyzed back in Freeza saga, the amount of Zenkai he got was also huge. This tells us that the amount of power one can get through zenkai may simply vary.

I agree. Everyone doesn't get the same zenkai boost. Bardock's boost was probably more important.

[TKA]

Well, if you're saying that regarding to Bardock under the power level subject, it also doen't affect him in this, as Bardock received Zenkai, he got hit by Freeza's technique and got recovered.

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

But I digress. Don't wanna turn this into a circular power level discussion.

Vegeta had the power but not the gentleness or righteousness the Saiyan needed.

And Bardock was gentle and righteous when the only reason he rebelled against Frieza was because Frieza screwed him over?

Also, Vegeta did NOT have the power. Gohan surpassed the power Vegeta had when he fought Frieza's first form, at LEAST, and then Goku told him he still needed more power to meet the minimum requirements for Super Saiyan in the RoSaT. With the power requirement being so high, there's no way Bardock met it. With his character defects, there's no way Bardock is a "gentle" or "tranquil," or even just "a decent person."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that story is pure nonsense.

Is it really? Because there's also Goku's case to be analyzed back in Freeza saga, the amount of Zenkai he got was also huge. This tells us that the amount of power one can get through zenkai may simply vary. Besides other factors too.

Goku moved from being, at base, almost as strong as Ginyu to almost as strong as Frieza's when he's severely holding himself back. The Zenkai boost was big, but Goku was also MUCH stronger than Vegeta was throughout the entirety of the arc when he got his multiple zenkais.

I'm not saying Bardock getting a boost massive enough to make him at least stronger than first form Frieza is impossible, but it is so improbable and at odds with literally everything else in the story that I'm gonna have to consider it nonsensical fanfiction.

But hey, that's me. You can dig the story if you want.

[Meshack]

Which is absolute nonsense. The beatings Vegeta took on Earth and on Namek didn't get him to the base power needed for Super Saiyan, so no way Bardock, who started weaker, could get to it from one beating. That whole story was just nonsensical fanfiction.

But I digress. Don't wanna turn this into a circular power level discussion.

Vegeta had the power but not the gentleness or righteousness the Saiyan needed.

And Bardock was gentle and righteous when the only reason he rebelled against Frieza was because Frieza screwed him over?

Also, Vegeta did NOT have the power. Gohan surpassed the power Vegeta had when he fought Frieza's first form, at LEAST, and then Goku told him he still needed more power to meet the minimum requirements for Super Saiyan in the RoSaT. With the power requirement being so high, there's no way Bardock met it. With his character defects, there's no way Bardock is a "gentle" or "tranquil," or even just "a decent person."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that story is pure nonsense.

Is it really? Because there's also Goku's case to be analyzed back in Freeza saga, the amount of Zenkai he got was also huge. This tells us that the amount of power one can get through zenkai may simply vary. Besides other factors too.

Goku moved from being, at base, almost as strong as Ginyu to almost as strong as Frieza's when he's severely holding himself back. The Zenkai boost was big, but Goku was also MUCH stronger than Vegeta was throughout the entirety of the arc when he got his multiple zenkais.

I'm not saying Bardock getting a boost massive enough to make him at least stronger than first form Frieza is impossible, but it is so improbable and at odds with literally everything else in the story that I'm gonna have to consider it nonsensical fanfiction.

But hey, that's me. You can dig the story if you want.

I don’t care about the Barduck OVA because it’s not canon. It’s a what-if story that people take as canon but it isn’t. Ooishi said it herself. Barduck is not the legendary SS so there’s no point talking about it. Yamoshi is the legendary Saiyan.

About Vegeta, it’s not clear what battle power is needed to become Super Saiyan. There seems to be a lot of factors so it’s kinda hard to tell. I think Shueisha and Toriyama should give us a S-cell number system like battle powers and give us what’s needed to become a Super Saiyan.

[Doctor.]

If you need a gentle heart to become Super Saiyan, how come Vegeta did it?

[majinwarman]

If you need a gentle heart to become Super Saiyan, how come Vegeta did it?

Because he started to change in his heart. He may not be fully evil,but he was a better man in the Cell Arc than back when he was introduced.

Hurray lore directly from the man!

I really like the S-Cells bit. It meshes well with Oozaru explanation as in Saiyans being really weird creatures.

It explains why Universe 6 Saiyans can go SSJ much more easily. It also explains why the Saiyans kids got SSJ with such ease; it lines up with my and I bet many people's previous explanation for this.

The only thing I find weird is Yamoshi becoming a spirit and searching for a new saviour. Why exactly?! How does this work. So many questions. I'm not satisfied with this part.

I love explanation as well. It just gives what the U6 Saiyan haters what they want: an explanation. There are so many questions as you said. I wonder if we are going to get more information in the future. It may come in Super or a new guidebook.

[Meshack]

If you need a gentle heart to become Super Saiyan, how come Vegeta did it?

Being gentle is one way of increasing S-cells. You don’t need to be gentle or righteous to become Super Saiyan. Being gentle and living in a gentle environment makes it easier for a Saiyan to become a Super Saiyan. You just need enough S-cells and a high enough battle power to become Super Saiyan. Toriyama said Trunks inherited a lot of S-cells from Vegeta so that’s why he became a Super Saiyan. You need a lot of S-cells to become Super Saiyan.

[Doctor.]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

[Meshack]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

I’m sure no one is pure of heart. I think you mean righteous. But anyway, there still isn’t a problem. Cabbe, Caulifla, and Kale live in a gentle environment and Cabbe, especially seems to be very righteous. I’m sure these three have high S-cells to allow them to transform easily. S-cells can be inherited so maybe they got more from their parents

[Doctor.]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

I’m sure no one is pure of heart. I think you mean righteous. But anyway, there still isn’t a problem. Cabbe, Caulifla, and Kale live in a gentle environment and Cabbe, especially seems to be very righteous. I’m sure these three have high S-cells to allow them to transform easily. S-cells can be inherited so maybe they got more from their parents

I already said that's not the problem. It's the fact that they haven't transformed prior to this point even though they could do it so easily. They've never gotten angry?

[LightBing]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

It's not that far-fetched.
The three Saiyans at the Tournament must be the strongest in that Universe, everyone else likely are a bunch of Raditz and Nappa's. With the exception of Caulifla the other two don't have the demeanour to get angry and likely never pushed got to the limit in combat due to their already superior power.

[Meshack]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

I’m sure no one is pure of heart. I think you mean righteous. But anyway, there still isn’t a problem. Cabbe, Caulifla, and Kale live in a gentle environment and Cabbe, especially seems to be very righteous. I’m sure these three have high S-cells to allow them to transform easily. S-cells can be inherited so maybe they got more from their parents

I already said that's not the problem. It's the fact that they haven't transformed prior to this point even though they could do it so easily. They've never gotten angry?

Oh, okay! I mean, you need a high battle power to become a Super Saiyan also.

[Meshack]

The problem with the U6 Saiyans going SS so quickly isn't the fact that they do it. It's the fact that they expect us to believe that, in a planet with pure-hearted Saiyans, none of them ever transformed once. We didn't see Caulifla getting any stronger, she just did it.

It's not that far-fetched.
The three Saiyans at the Tournament must be the strongest in that Universe, everyone else likely are a bunch of Raditz and Nappa's. With the exception of Caulifla the other two don't have the demeanour to get angry and likely never pushed got to the limit in combat due to their already superior power.

I doubt Caulifla and Kale are one of the strongest or at least were. The Sadala Defense Force probably has people that could get much stronger and were most likely stronger than the two before achieving Super Saiyan.