Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[Scsigs]

There wasn't ever much of a working relationship between the two. Outside of the bits and pieces of Dragon Ball they picked up, YTV's only other Funimation pickups were the original Fullmetal Alchemist (+ movie) and the first 26 episodes of Case Closed. The former's success didn't lead to much (Brotherhood wound up on the obscure Superchannel service in Canada), while the latter was an extremely rare instance of a show YTV pulled prematurely.

Perhaps not, but actually the reason YTV only picked up 3 titles from FUNimation is because of a dispute that stemmed from YTV picking up the Ocean dub mid-Cell Games Saga. Started in 2001, ceased in 2006 when they stopped airing Dragon Ball properties altogether.

I know that was a common fan rumour, but I'd like to know if there was ever any direct statement of a beef between the two. YTV's sister company had absolutely no problem working with Funimation before 2006.

Probably because Nelvana owned FUNimation for the longest time at that point.

[Super Sayian Prime]

You're confusing Nelvana with Navarre. Somewhat similar names, but two entirely separate companies. :p

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think he meant "Owned" as in "TOTALLY PWNED" by Nelvana in the Canadian market. Nelvana until recently was a major giant in Canadian kids media.

[Arian]

Perhaps not, but actually the reason YTV only picked up 3 titles from FUNimation is because of a dispute that stemmed from YTV picking up the Ocean dub mid-Cell Games Saga. Started in 2001, ceased in 2006 when they stopped airing Dragon Ball properties altogether.

I know that was a common fan rumour, but I'd like to know if there was ever any direct statement of a beef between the two. YTV's sister company had absolutely no problem working with Funimation before 2006.

Everything at Corus Entertainment wasn't as integrated and simplified as it is today. If such were the case, Cardcaptors, 6teen, My Dad the Rockstar, etc. would have all been on YTV instead of branched out to other networks that Corus didn't fully operate or at all.

My point being that while both YTV and Nelvana were both owned by Corus, YTV, at the time, still had the freedom of selecting what they wanted on their network, and until 2006, they wanted no part of FUNimation or their productions, and vice-versa. Notice how any show FUNimation helped produce or distributed on DVD also didn't air on YTV.

As far as wanting to see some documentation regarding the supposed dispute, I don't blame you for wanting to see a shred of evidence, and I wish I could provide that because I do remember reading something official once. Let me see if I can dig it up and we'll get back to this.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Everything at Corus Entertainment wasn't as integrated and simplified as it is today. If such were the case, Cardcaptors, 6teen, My Dad the Rockstar, etc. would have all been on YTV instead of branched out to other networks that Corus didn't fully operate or at all.

The three shows you mentioned all aired on a singular channel: Teletoon. At launch, Corus (err, "YTV") owned 26.7% of Teletoon, which got downgraded to 20% as Cinar and Nelvana took out an option in the broadcast license to increase their ownership. Corus then bought Nelvana, which gave them a 40% stake in Teletoon. What's controversial about delivering programming to a channel you own nearly half of?

Notice how any show FUNimation helped produce or distributed on DVD also didn't air on YTV.

Uh, the Nelvana and Funimation co-production I linked to was Pandalian, which aired on YTV ... Funimation also distributed Beyblade G-Revolution and Moville Mysteries on DVD through Nelvana, which were YTV shows. During the early to mid-2000s, Funimation also distributed the home video product for 4Kids and even the Mainframe Entertainment "classic" Tony Hawk in Boom Boom Sabotage.

[Arian]

Everything at Corus Entertainment wasn't as integrated and simplified as it is today. If such were the case, Cardcaptors, 6teen, My Dad the Rockstar, etc. would have all been on YTV instead of branched out to other networks that Corus didn't fully operate or at all.

The three shows you mentioned all aired on a singular channel: Teletoon. At launch, Corus (err, "YTV") owned 26.7% of Teletoon, which got downgraded to 20% as Cinar and Nelvana took out an option in the broadcast license to increase their ownership. Corus then bought Nelvana, which gave them a 40% stake in Teletoon. What's controversial about delivering programming to a channel you own nearly half of?

I knew about YTV/Corus' stake in Teletoon, that's why I said "didn't fully operate." And there's nothing odd about supporting a network you own 40% of. All the more reason to put those shows there then on the network that airs the alternate Dragon Ball dubs. Let's remember that the Blue Water dubs are a major factor in this as well.

Notice how any show FUNimation helped produce or distributed on DVD also didn't air on YTV.

Uh, the Nelvana and Funimation co-production I linked to was Pandalian, which aired on YTV ... Funimation also distributed Beyblade G-Revolution and Moville Mysteries on DVD through Nelvana, which were YTV shows. During the early to mid-2000s, Funimation also distributed the home video product for 4Kids and even the Mainframe Entertainment "classic" Tony Hawk in Boom Boom Sabotage.

Pandalian aired on YTV in the summer of 2006. Basically the exact time that the dispute had ended anyway. The production of Pandalian may very well be the exact thing that ended the dispute in the first place.

As for Beyblade, it's not a YTV production, it was a Nelvana production. I'll grant you that they made one DVD of Moeville Mysteries, but again, likely a deal with Nelvana and KaBoom! that has little to do with YTV's differences with FUNimation regarding which particular dub to broadcast.

Also, I remember what I read. It was a leaked quarterly of YTV's revenue that a friend showed me. In it, it indicated the FUNimation was not getting tapes to them promptly enough compared to that of Cartoon Network, and that YTV was losing revenue and ratings by just going back to Raditz over and over. So once they found an alternative, they took it. And of course our FUNi friends wouldn't be too pleased with that.

Just have to find it and we can put all of this to bed.

[Robo4900]

FUNimation was not getting tapes to them promptly enough

I do remember hearing something about that. IIRC, the UK had a similar problem.

Also, that video is hilarious.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I have a question, since most people think Terry Klassen is a much better director than actor, who do you want to direct Ocean Kai? Him Or Karl Willems? I love Karl best! He did the Pretty Cure justice and that was with a mostly inexperienced crew. I love directors that can make the best with what they have!

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Definitely Karl Williams. He would be the ideal option for making the best out of an (inevitably) edited dub.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Karl Willems also directed the English dub of Death Note, which is (generally) considered one of the best English dubs of an anime ever made. When it comes to DBZ, he also directed the three uncut Ocean/Pioneer dubs of the movies. On top of that, I have yet to hear any voice actor who has worked with him say anything other than great things. He'd be a great pick for this project!

[8000 Saiyan]

Definitely Karl Willems. Since he did a great job in the first three movies, he should definitely direct Ocean Kai. It'd be a shame if he didn't.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I knew about YTV/Corus' stake in Teletoon, that's why I said "didn't fully operate." And there's nothing odd about supporting a network you own 40% of. All the more reason to put those shows there then on the network that airs the alternate Dragon Ball dubs. Let's remember that the Blue Water dubs are a major factor in this as well.

At this point, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Also, I remember what I read. It was a leaked quarterly of YTV's revenue that a friend showed me. In it, it indicated the FUNimation was not getting tapes to them promptly enough compared to that of Cartoon Network, and that YTV was losing revenue and ratings by just going back to Raditz over and over. So once they found an alternative, they took it. And of course our FUNi friends wouldn't be too pleased with that.

Just have to find it and we can put all of this to bed.

Well, that's a different argument. You initially said that YTV picking up the Canadian DB dubs caused a fight with Funimation. When it sounds like the true culprit was Funimation's inability to deliver materials in a timely manner.

I have a question, since most people think Terry Klassen is a much better director than actor, who do you want to direct Ocean Kai? Him Or Karl Willems? I love Karl best! He did the Pretty Cure justice and that was with a mostly inexperienced crew. I love directors that can make the best with what they have!

It was almost certainly Karl Willems who directed this dub. He's done all of Ocean's higher profile shows as of late, with Jack Cox subbing in for him when he's away or a show's well established. Klassen works at his own company, Voicebox, which mostly does pre-lay animation. James Corrigal, who used to direct a lot of Ocean's dubs, mostly does pre-lay as well.

[8000 Saiyan]

I knew about YTV/Corus' stake in Teletoon, that's why I said "didn't fully operate." And there's nothing odd about supporting a network you own 40% of. All the more reason to put those shows there then on the network that airs the alternate Dragon Ball dubs. Let's remember that the Blue Water dubs are a major factor in this as well.

At this point, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Also, I remember what I read. It was a leaked quarterly of YTV's revenue that a friend showed me. In it, it indicated the FUNimation was not getting tapes to them promptly enough compared to that of Cartoon Network, and that YTV was losing revenue and ratings by just going back to Raditz over and over. So once they found an alternative, they took it. And of course our FUNi friends wouldn't be too pleased with that.

Just have to find it and we can put all of this to bed.

Well, that's a different argument. You initially said that YTV picking up the Canadian DB dubs caused a fight with Funimation. When it sounds like the true culprit was Funimation's inability to deliver materials in a timely manner.

I have a question, since most people think Terry Klassen is a much better director than actor, who do you want to direct Ocean Kai? Him Or Karl Willems? I love Karl best! He did the Pretty Cure justice and that was with a mostly inexperienced crew. I love directors that can make the best with what they have!

It was almost certainly Karl Willems who directed this dub. He's done all of Ocean's higher profile shows as of late, with Jack Cox subbing in for him when he's away or a show's well established. Klassen works at his own company, Voicebox, which mostly does pre-lay animation. James Corrigal, who used to direct a lot of Ocean's dubs, mostly does pre-lay as well.

Voicebox has also done Transformers dubs.

[Arian]

At this point, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

I'm saying it's better that those shows be on a network you just own a stake in then the one where you're basically anti-FUNimation on by airing alternate Canadian dubs of shows FUNimation licensed.

Also, I remember what I read. It was a leaked quarterly of YTV's revenue that a friend showed me. In it, it indicated the FUNimation was not getting tapes to them promptly enough compared to that of Cartoon Network, and that YTV was losing revenue and ratings by just going back to Raditz over and over. So once they found an alternative, they took it. And of course our FUNi friends wouldn't be too pleased with that.

Just have to find it and we can put all of this to bed.

Well, that's a different argument. You initially said that YTV picking up the Canadian DB dubs caused a fight with Funimation. When it sounds like the true culprit was Funimation's inability to deliver materials in a timely manner.

I said it was a wonder that YTV would go the alternate route with the Canadian dubs, even in spite of FUNi's failure to deliver, because it meant less anime titles at the end of the day. Or perhaps not, since they weren't the biggest back then.

In the end, we don't know what caused YTV to go with Ocean, whether it be because they were Canadian or because FUNimation was slacking. At least we can agree that it caused a rift between the two for a good 5 years, wouldn't you say?

[Super Sayian Prime]

I'm saying it's better that those shows be on a network you just own a stake in then the one where you're basically anti-FUNimation on by airing alternate Canadian dubs of shows FUNimation licensed.

I'm really failing to see the connection between Dragon Ball and some Nelvana shows airing on Teletoon, but whatever.

I said it was a wonder that YTV would go the alternate route with the Canadian dubs, even in spite of FUNi's failure to deliver, because it meant less anime titles at the end of the day. Or perhaps not, since they weren't the biggest back then.

Well, even after this alleged feud ended, it only resulted in YTV picking up two titles from Funimation. Thinking about it, Geneon and them are the only two major R1 anime players to have more anime run on non-YTV outlets in Canada than YTV.

Voicebox has also done Transformers dubs.

The last of which was over 10 years ago, so I figured it wasn't really relevant.

[Arian]

I'm saying it's better that those shows be on a network you just own a stake in then the one where you're basically anti-FUNimation on by airing alternate Canadian dubs of shows FUNimation licensed.

I'm really failing to see the connection between Dragon Ball and some Nelvana shows airing on Teletoon, but whatever.

It's like this. FUNimation is co-producing with Nelvana. FUNimation is withholding their productions from YTV. YTV is also wary of FUNimation. So naturally, FUNimation-based shows don't air on YTV.

I said it was a wonder that YTV would go the alternate route with the Canadian dubs, even in spite of FUNi's failure to deliver, because it meant less anime titles at the end of the day. Or perhaps not, since they weren't the biggest back then.

Well, even after this alleged feud ended, it only resulted in YTV picking up two titles from Funimation. Thinking about it, Geneon and them are the only two major R1 anime players to have more anime run on non-YTV outlets in Canada than YTV.

Well, that's on YTV themselves. They decided to only air the super mainstream in 2008 and 2009. Then even those shows got the axe in 2010.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Marni responded to someone asking for an update:

Sorry for the delay. No news yet. Will keep everyone posted.

https://twitter.com/shomi_marni/status/ ... 1722204161

It's like this. FUNimation is co-producing with Nelvana. FUNimation is withholding their productions from YTV. YTV is also wary of FUNimation. So naturally, FUNimation-based shows don't air on YTV.

But the only show Nelvana and Funimation produced together was Pandalian... Nelvana's shows aired on YTV. The only reason they didn't exclusively air there is because Corus owned 40% of another channel and YTV's license from the CRTC requires them to air a certain amount of productions from Canadian creators independent of the company.

[Robo4900]

Marni responded to someone asking for an update:

Sorry for the delay. No news yet. Will keep everyone posted.

https://twitter.com/shomi_marni/status/ ... 1722204161

She says she'll keep us posted, which is interesting.

Regarding why YTV picked up Ocean Z, I think it's best to just be thankful they did.

[SX10]

That's awesome! Marni must be in talks with the right people surely, otherwise I think she'd be reaching out for contacts again. Fingers crossed.

[ButtfaceKalinski]

The last of which was over 10 years ago, so I figured it wasn't really relevant.

Haha, ouch those shows were a perfect confluence of insane deadlines and inexplicable BS from all possible sides. If you want to learn what a horrible, thankless task ADR is, there's your poster children