Cell's..hum...cells

Lol · Post by **Lol** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:58 pm

I have a question about the cells used to create Cell:

When explaining to Piccolo, who he is, he says that the cells of Cold and Freeza were collected. Up this point, everything is OK... But then, he says that the cells of Trunks could be collected but there were to much Saiyajins cells... Does his mean the Trunks who kills Freeza and Cold? Because, in the manga we see a shot of Freeza and Cold being at the state that Trunks left them at the explanation, giving the felling that he was talking about the Mirai Trunks.

If so, how come Goku died of a heart attack and everybody was killed (except Trunks, who is killed by Cell) in Cell's timeline? The robot-wasp can do time-travel? Or am I missing something?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Lol wrote:he says that the cells of Trunks could be collected but there were to much Saiyajins cells... Does his mean the Trunks who kills Freeza and Cold?

Well, logically, no, it shouldn't be the one who killed Freeza and Cold. In Cell's original timeline, Gokû is the one who took care of that.
I guess he could be talking about the Trunks that was born a couple of years after Freeza's arrival, but...

Because, in the manga we see a shot of Freeza and Cold being at the state that Trunks left them at the explanation, giving the felling that he was talking about the Mirai Trunks.

... exactly. That part is a bit weird, indeed. I guess Toriyama got confused?

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:56 am

The only Trunks that this Cell would be aware of is Mirai Trunks who defeats the Andriods but knows nothing about Cell (whom Cell kills and takes his time machine) and the current Mirai Trunks who he is talking to. So, I'm guessing Cell means the Trunks that he killed in the alternate future.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:48 pm

I guess Mr. Toriyama had not decided between a "predestined loop" future or a "causal" future. The predestined loop would've meant that Trunks' future would always occur after his first trip, but that would make a better future impossible, since the same future would happen over and over again.

Another hint to this may be that Cell came from a future where Trunks had defeated the cyborgs. Ultimately, this plot-hole can be resolved by Trunks returning from a different past (search for Hidden Timeline in one of the timeline threads).

@ Anonymous Friend: the Trunks you describe was not fully grown during Cell's construction. It may have been that Cell could have gotten his DNA at a later stage in his development, and that there was already anough Saiyan DNA at that point. This way, it seems this plothole can be resolved.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:55 pm

Yeah, I've always figured he was refering to the Trunks of his own time-line. Basicly saying that the computer, after eventually collecting Trunks' DNA, decided to discard it because there was already a large collection of Saiya-jin DNA in Cell as it was.

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:59 pm

Xyex wrote:Yeah, I've always figured he was refering to the Trunks of his own time-line. Basicly saying that the computer, after eventually collecting Trunks' DNA, decided to discard it because there was already a large collection of Saiya-jin DNA in Cell as it was.

But that's what I find most humorous and a possible plothole, Gero would've had to collect DNA, not cells. If Cell was created like other biological creatures, he would've been concieved like a zygote is (sperm+egg=zygote). Cells from different blood groups and species can't co-exist individually, that's how rejection happens. (eg. trasplanted hearts get rejected by the body if the blood type isn't right, or sometimes even the body recognizes that the trasplanted organ doesn't have the same DNA as the rest of the body. Also as another thing, Cell most likely wouldn't have been able to be concieved: eg. a Human can't concieve a child from a dog, the DNA isn't close enough).

Sorry, stupid thing that I had to point out. However, about Trunks, I agree, however, Gero didn't consider that Saiyan-Human hybrids had more potential then pure Saiyans or Pure Humans. Otherwise, Cell quite possibly would've been far stronger then he ended up being.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:14 pm

DemonKingPiccolo wrote:But that's what I find most humorous and a possible plothole, Gero would've had to collect DNA, not cells. If Cell was created like other biological creatures, he would've been concieved like a zygote is (sperm+egg=zygote). Cells from different blood groups and species can't co-exist individually, that's how rejection happens. (eg. trasplanted hearts get rejected by the body if the blood type isn't right, or sometimes even the body recognizes that the trasplanted organ doesn't have the same DNA as the rest of the body. Also as another thing, Cell most likely wouldn't have been able to be concieved: eg. a Human can't concieve a child from a dog, the DNA isn't close enough).

This is the Dragon world, where SSJ strength is hereditary, among other things. Since when do the rules of our universe apply?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 pm

DemonKingPiccolo wrote:Gero would've had to collect DNA, not cells.

Er... But the cells would contain DNA, so...?

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:44 pm

In the Anime, I think they mentioned who Cell was comprised of, although I think the Manga had it as fewer characters:

Changeling DNA:
Freeza
Kold

Namekian DNA:
Piccolo

Human DNA:
Tenshinhan
Krillin
Yamcha

Saiyan DNA:
Nappa
Vegeta
Son Goku

For some reason, they do not mention Son Gohan as having been a part of Cell's genetic makeup, perhaps only a maximum of three samples were taken from any one group of unknowing donors.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:46 pm

Akira wrote:For some reason, they do not mention Son Gohan as having been a part of Cell's genetic makeup, perhaps only a maximum of three samples were taken from any one group of unknowing donors.

I think it was more likely a way of explaining why Gohan was able to become stronger than Cell. Cell didn't get Gohan's DNA so he didn't get his potential either.

And wasn't Raditz one of the mentioned 'donors'?

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:06 pm

Xyex wrote:I think it was more likely a way of explaining why Gohan was able to become stronger than Cell. Cell didn't get Gohan's DNA so he didn't get his potential either.

I believe, in the anime, he did. I recall him mentioning "Cells were also collected from the elite Nappa, the young-but-powerful Gohan, and of course yourself Piccolo".

Xyex wrote:And wasn't Raditz one of the mentioned 'donors'?

Nope. In both anime and manga, the DNA/Cells collecting bug first came about during the battle with the Saiyans.

Dark Vegeta-Sama · Post by **Dark Vegeta-Sama** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:18 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Xyex wrote:And wasn't Raditz one of the mentioned 'donors'?
Nope. In both anime and manga, the DNA/Cells collecting bug first came about during the battle with the Saiyans.

I don't know about the manga, but in the anime it's shown that the collecting bugs first start following the characters during the 22nd Budokai, and it's stated that from there they followed each one of Goku's pre-Namek battles.

So it's entirely possible that Raditz's DNA is part of Cell, even if it isn't specifically mentioned.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:14 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:I don't know about the manga, but in the anime it's shown that the collecting bugs first start following the characters during the 22nd Budokai, and it's stated that from there they followed each one of Goku's pre-Namek battles.

So it's entirely possible that Raditz's DNA is part of Cell, even if it isn't specifically mentioned.

That wasn't the DNA collecting bug, it was a separate ladybug-looking gizmo Gero dispatched (as we see in the flashbacks) much earlier to collect data on Goku and his friends.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:05 pm

In the manga, Cell had no "super human" DNA. No Ten, Kuririn, or Yamcha. (I don't think Ten is 100% human anyhow, but that's a different subject). The anime only added them because they knew it would make some nice filler later on. Which it did. Most of you probably know that though.

Lol · Post by **Lol** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:13 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:I don't know about the manga, but in the anime it's shown that the collecting bugs first start following the characters during the 22nd Budokai, and it's stated that from there they followed each one of Goku's pre-Namek battles.

So it's entirely possible that Raditz's DNA is part of Cell, even if it isn't specifically mentioned.
That wasn't the DNA collecting bug, it was a separate ladybug-looking gizmo Gero dispatched (as we see in the flashbacks) much earlier to collect data on Goku and his friends.

Isn't it the same one?
I think that Cell says something like this:
"Dr. Gero must have warned you that there were a robot spying you. Well, that robot collected cells (...). Probably it wants your cells now."

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:42 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the same one for both tasks.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Why did Cell infer that Gero told the Z-senshi about the spy robot? Seems kind of weird that he would reveal it. The way he says it, it sounds like Gero told them back in Cell's timeline, but when exactly would this be? And how would Cell know about it?

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:04 pm

He says "must've".

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:15 pm

I said "infer".

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:50 am

Drunken Master wrote:In the manga, Cell had no "super human" DNA. No Ten, Kuririn, or Yamcha. (I don't think Ten is 100% human anyhow, but that's a different subject). The anime only added them because they knew it would make some nice filler later on. Which it did. Most of you probably know that though.

Well, it was never specifically stated that Cell had DNA from any of the human characters... however a lot of people overlook something that the cover of the Piccolo vs #17 chapter says. (This is the cover that featured the chart of androids, and gives a brief description for each of them, I'm sure you know of it.)

In Viz's English translated release of the manga, the description listed for Cell mentions this:

Viz wrote:Previously, Doctor Gero tried to use bio-technology to create an android, but due to time constraints, he programmed a computer to finish the experiment. It was created by combining the genes of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza, Freeza's father, and a number of other life forms

The key thing people overlook here is the statement "and a number of other life forms." Now, I don't know how accurate that translation by Viz is, but if it holds true; then this means there is the canonical possibility that Cell has DNA from other characters, besides the ones listed.

Who really even knows what "and a number of other life forms" really means? Look at Cell's appearance. He has camo-like spots on his body, and wings. No Saiyan, Namekian, or Freeza's family had those traits. Furthermore, Cell looks like a big cartoon caricature of a cicada in his first form's "pupal stage."

It could possibly be that a cicada's cell was used as the "base" for combining all of the foreign DNA together. Cicada's do, after all, have a rather long hibernation period, that could possibly serve as an advantage for Cell's growth cycle. Of course, that is entering into the realm of pure speculation, but still: it's something to think about.

Kanzenshuu

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