Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:33 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Hey guys sorry for asking and at the risk of looking dumb but I'm having a doubt and too lazy to check, is the hearing thing about Piccolo canon or not lol
Yeah, it's canon. Piccolo states that he could hear the conversation between Goku and Future Trunks when they first meet in the Android/Cell arc despite being so far away because his sense of hearing is much better than Goku's(i.e. the average being):
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
He also hears Vegeta ask Buu if he was the one that killed Gohan - the hearing thing wasn't brought up once and then dismissed. Even in BOG he hears Goku and Beerus talk in the underground cave.

Seriously, Super....

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:37 am

Michsi wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Hey guys sorry for asking and at the risk of looking dumb but I'm having a doubt and too lazy to check, is the hearing thing about Piccolo canon or not lol
Yeah, it's canon. Piccolo states that he could hear the conversation between Goku and Future Trunks when they first meet in the Android/Cell arc despite being so far away because his sense of hearing is much better than Goku's(i.e. the average being):
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
He also hears Vegeta ask Buu if he was the one that killed Gohan - the hearing thing wasn't brought up once and then dismissed. Even in BOG he hears Goku and Beerus talk in the underground cave.

Seriously, Super....
Eh. Doesn't bother me that much. Piccolo just got caught up in the heat of the battle and focused too much on just one of his senses and paid for it.

Besides, I'm still waiting for when Goku will remember he can read minds. :P

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:42 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Yeah, it's canon. Piccolo states that he could hear the conversation between Goku and Future Trunks when they first meet in the Android/Cell arc despite being so far away because his sense of hearing is much better than Goku's(i.e. the average being):
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
He also hears Vegeta ask Buu if he was the one that killed Gohan - the hearing thing wasn't brought up once and then dismissed. Even in BOG he hears Goku and Beerus talk in the underground cave.

Seriously, Super....
Eh. Doesn't bother me that much. Piccolo just got caught up in the heat of the battle and focused too much on just one of his senses and paid for it.
As I said, had it been any other ability, I would've bought it. But it's Piccolo and it's about hearing. They made a whole movie that relied on namekians and their sensitive hearing??!!!!!
Lord Beerus wrote:Besides, I'm still waiting for when Goku will remember he can read minds. :P
Muten Roshi too.
Not to mention Goku's prophetic dreams.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:49 am

Michsi wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Michsi wrote:
He also hears Vegeta ask Buu if he was the one that killed Gohan - the hearing thing wasn't brought up once and then dismissed. Even in BOG he hears Goku and Beerus talk in the underground cave.

Seriously, Super....
Eh. Doesn't bother me that much. Piccolo just got caught up in the heat of the battle and focused too much on just one of his senses and paid for it.
As I said, had it been any other ability, I would've bought it. But it's Piccolo and it's about hearing. They made a whole movie that relied on namekians and their sensitive hearing??!!!!!
To play devil's advocate, those were the same kind of movies that instances where the cast forget they could turn into Super or could fly. So I take those kinds of movie with a huge grain of salt in regard to the implications for the cast can and can't do.

But, yeah, that was a bit of a flub from the writers on that one. But nothing really to get so worked up on because we've seen much worse in Dragon Ball.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:55 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
But, yeah, that was a bit of a flub from the writers on that one. But nothing really to get so worked up on because we've seen much worse in Dragon Ball.

Meh, it's a personal grievance for me cause it's Piccolo. On one hand, he didn't technically get overpowered, but on the other, he lost to Gregory's long lost miniature cousin. The sight of him on those bleachers hurts my heart.... but I expected it

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Hey guys sorry for asking and at the risk of looking dumb but I'm having a doubt and too lazy to check, is the hearing thing about Piccolo canon or not lol
Yeah, it's canon. Piccolo states that he could hear the conversation between Goku and Future Trunks when they first meet in the Android/Cell arc despite being so far away because his sense of hearing is much better than Goku's(i.e. the average being):
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Thanks.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:45 pm

It's also too bad that we never got a Piccolo and #17 teamup. That's one I really wanted to see or at least an interaction between them. Darn.
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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:55 am

dbzfan7 wrote:Wow I'm surprised by the negativity. I didn't think the episode was bad at all. I thought it was pretty good. Not amazing but fine enough. I liked how things felt more like they were moving. I liked how everyone was on guard from a handful of opponents, and none of them were particularly strong. It was more they had a great strategy. What with being invisible, using the illusions as a distraction for the real fighter, etc. I liked how we got to see Gohan and 17 show battle smarts too. It's the closest we've gotten to everyone being together. We also didn't have an obligatory blue cameo for no good reason. I thought the episode was a refreshing change of pace. No real nonsense. A good way to have weaker foes be a danger. It pretty much covered a lot of what I wanted to see from weaker universes without just being stupid. Piccolo also got two people before going down so he was shown kicking ass before going out. Shame it wasn't against someone memorable.
This episode was considered a failure and terrible by many due to how horribly put together and directed the episode is overall. Similar episodes in this arc have also been
plagued with terrible direction, episodes like 105, 106 and 115 come to mind. I think its the terrible direction in these episodes, that make all impactful or inventive scenes, just kind of all flat on their face, and fail to deliver any meaningful impression needed to sell the drama of pivotal moments within the episode and to generally engage them. Thats where this episode fell completely flat in that regard and I think thats the reason so many people disliked it so. Espicially considering it was the next big ring out for universe 7, the episodes direction did a terrible job at selling the drama and tension of the events.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Amir » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:48 am

JazzMazz wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Wow I'm surprised by the negativity. I didn't think the episode was bad at all. I thought it was pretty good. Not amazing but fine enough. I liked how things felt more like they were moving. I liked how everyone was on guard from a handful of opponents, and none of them were particularly strong. It was more they had a great strategy. What with being invisible, using the illusions as a distraction for the real fighter, etc. I liked how we got to see Gohan and 17 show battle smarts too. It's the closest we've gotten to everyone being together. We also didn't have an obligatory blue cameo for no good reason. I thought the episode was a refreshing change of pace. No real nonsense. A good way to have weaker foes be a danger. It pretty much covered a lot of what I wanted to see from weaker universes without just being stupid. Piccolo also got two people before going down so he was shown kicking ass before going out. Shame it wasn't against someone memorable.
This episode was considered a failure and terrible by many due to how horribly put together and directed the episode is overall. Similar episodes in this arc have also been
plagued with terrible direction, episodes like 105, 106 and 115 come to mind. I think its the terrible direction in these episodes, that make all impactful or inventive scenes, just kind of all flat on their face, and fail to deliver any meaningful impression needed to sell the drama of pivotal moments within the episode and to generally engage them. Thats where this episode fell completely flat in that regard and I think thats the reason so many people disliked it so. Espicially considering it was the next big ring out for universe 7, the episodes direction did a terrible job at selling the drama and tension of the events.
I agree with everything you said other than one thing. About Piccolo's elimination, is it really a must for every elimination to be super dramatic and impacful? I don't think so at all.
Piccolo's elimination may have not been dramatic, but it made sense.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:47 am

Amir wrote: Piccolo's elimination may have not been dramatic, but it made sense.
If there is one thing it didn't make it's sense lol
It was simply botched, it's not about dramatic or not, it's about direction cheers lol

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:58 am

Amir wrote: I agree with everything you said other than one thing. About Piccolo's elimination, is it really a must for every elimination to be super dramatic and impacful? I don't think so at all.
Piccolo's elimination may have not been dramatic, but it made sense.
Same as mentioned above. It was not about the moment being dramatic ( he had his big dramatic moment in 118) it's about being well executed. Them focusing too much on ki sensing and have the androids come up with an alternative solution because they don't rely on it was a good idea, but when you make sound the secret to winning and have Piccolo of all characters fail in that department, you lose credibility points.

I'm really curious if they'll go this route in the manga too?

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Amir » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:13 pm

Michsi wrote:
Amir wrote: I agree with everything you said other than one thing. About Piccolo's elimination, is it really a must for every elimination to be super dramatic and impacful? I don't think so at all.
Piccolo's elimination may have not been dramatic, but it made sense.
Same as mentioned above. It was not about the moment being dramatic ( he had his big dramatic moment in 118) it's about being well executed. Them focusing too much on ki sensing and have the androids come up with an alternative solution because they don't rely on it was a good idea, but when you make sound the secret to winning and have Piccolo of all characters fail in that department, you lose credibility points.

I'm really curious if they'll go this route in the manga too?
I disagree, it made 100% sense. The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
It doesn't matter whether you can hear it or not, if you are not focused, or rather focused on something else so much, it's irrelevant and useless.

It would have been bad if Piccolo tried to focus on hearing the sound without success.

Piccolo in the past fell for much worse than this. It's nothing new or stupid.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:22 pm

Amir wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Amir wrote: I agree with everything you said other than one thing. About Piccolo's elimination, is it really a must for every elimination to be super dramatic and impacful? I don't think so at all.
Piccolo's elimination may have not been dramatic, but it made sense.
Same as mentioned above. It was not about the moment being dramatic ( he had his big dramatic moment in 118) it's about being well executed. Them focusing too much on ki sensing and have the androids come up with an alternative solution because they don't rely on it was a good idea, but when you make sound the secret to winning and have Piccolo of all characters fail in that department, you lose credibility points.

I'm really curious if they'll go this route in the manga too?
I disagree, it made 100% sense. The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
It doesn't matter whether you can hear it or not, if you are not focused, or rather focused on something else so much, it's irrelevant and useless.

Piccolo in the past fell for much worse than this. It's nothing new or stupid.
I can't support this line of thinking at all. I don't go blind if I start focusing on sound, that's not how senses work. Namekians are supposed to have such sensitive hearing so even if it was somewhat dulled due to focusing on another sense, it still should've been way above someone like 17's or Goku's that something should have still registered.

I mean the whole thing feels so shoe horned and I'm glad most agree with this.

Again, it's not the fact that he lost, but how they chose to have him lose. Relying too much on sensing ki- good idea. Character know for super hearing forgetting how to hear?- bad idea.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:38 pm

Michsi wrote:
Amir wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Same as mentioned above. It was not about the moment being dramatic ( he had his big dramatic moment in 118) it's about being well executed. Them focusing too much on ki sensing and have the androids come up with an alternative solution because they don't rely on it was a good idea, but when you make sound the secret to winning and have Piccolo of all characters fail in that department, you lose credibility points.

I'm really curious if they'll go this route in the manga too?
I disagree, it made 100% sense. The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
It doesn't matter whether you can hear it or not, if you are not focused, or rather focused on something else so much, it's irrelevant and useless.

Piccolo in the past fell for much worse than this. It's nothing new or stupid.
I can't support this line of thinking at all. I don't go blind if I start focusing on sound, that's not how senses work. Namekians are supposed to have such sensitive hearing so even if it was somewhat dulled due to focusing on another sense, it still should've been way above someone like 17's or Goku's that something should have still registered.

I mean the whole thing feels so shoe horned and I'm glad most agree with this.

Again, it's not the fact that he lost, but how they chose to have him lose. Relying too much on sensing ki- good idea. Character know for super hearing forgetting how to hear?- bad idea.
I can honestly say I've been so focused on one thing I couldn't hear a person talking right in my ear. Even if I heard it subconsciously I certainly didn't recognize it as speech or anything of significance.

It's not a weird concept.
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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:50 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote: I can honestly say I've been so focused on one thing I couldn't hear a person talking right in my ear. Even if I heard it subconsciously I certainly didn't recognize it as speech or anything of significance.

It's not a weird concept.
Then pick any other of the five senses to dull, not precisely the one he is known for being way better than everyone else on his team. Its like having a bloodhound forget how use his nose- it's way too forced.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by lord turbo » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:01 pm

Wow, Piccolo went out in probably the dumbest way possible, just as forced and contrived as Tien and Kuririn's depature. Its bad enough they ignore Piccolo's super hearing because "reasons", but he literally forgot he can stretch his arms to save himself just like he literally did to save Gohan from the same fate seconds earlier (in-universe). *shake my head*, seriously, what's up with the Meh/whatever attitude in these eliminations? If you were going to eliminate someone elim8linate the dead-weight 18 or simply wait and have all characters eliminated by Jiren to incite tension and despair, anything over what we actually got, jeez.
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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:19 pm

I actually thought Katopesla was being developed as literally a gag style character (I am sure everyone else thought the same)...

Lots of eliminations last couple episodes, I did get an additional feeling of suspense, even Vegeta started getting that worried look. When he gets that, you know stuff is serious ;)
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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:41 am

Amir wrote:The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
Says you, seems like most people familiar with the character around hear find it to be a nonsense cheers lol

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Amir » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:58 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Amir wrote:The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
Says you, seems like most people familiar with the character around hear find it to be a nonsense cheers lol
Still doesn't make the elimination bad.

It made sense. It's your problem for not accepting such a logical explanation. Picvolo himself said that if he focused on the sound he could have won.

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Re: Super Episode 119 (10 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:20 pm

Amir wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:
Amir wrote:The reason Piccolo of all people with his super hearing couldn't hear it was because he was focused too much on sensing the ki and simply did not pay attention.
Says you, seems like most people familiar with the character around hear find it to be a nonsense cheers lol
Still doesn't make the elimination bad.

It made sense. It's your problem for not accepting such a logical explanation. Picvolo himself said that if he focused on the sound he could have won.
It's because it's not logical that people are unconvinced. Having the character mention the misstep doesn't make the whole thing any more believable as a narrative decision. If he had wings and forgot how to use them, but then mentioned on the bench how he forgot how to use would that make the whole thing any less ludicrous?

Just because the story tries to offer an explanation doesn't mean people will just accept it unquestiongly.

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