"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[HECTOR4]

For Toriyama the androids couldn't see what was happening from inside Cell. Toyotaro has not understood that and has invented something that supposes a greater incoherence than the plot hole that was before. Gero spied the warriors of the Earth with his Micro Spy Robo, it was easier and more logical to invent that Gero had taught them some recording about Goku, for example.

And 17 saying "I haven't heard that voice in a while" in Buu saga when he's never met Goku?

Video recordings can have voice ^^

So creating an extra complex backstory is more believable than 18 being surprised a kid killed a monster. Gotcha.

I repeat, as far as we know A-18 was absorbed in the same way as 17. If 17 could see the events from inside Cell, 18 obligatorily must also have seen what was happening outside. It doesn't make sense that one can see what happens and the other doesn't. 18 should have seen how Gohan became a monster much more powerful than Cell.

Aaaand, now that I think about it, if 17 was still alive inside Cell, it was Gohan who killed him, and that means he should not have been resurrected when they asked for the wish to resurrect all Cell's victims XDDDD

[OLKv3]

For Toriyama the androids couldn't see what was happening from inside Cell. Toyotaro has not understood that and has invented something that supposes a greater incoherence than the plot hole that was before. Gero spied the warriors of the Earth with his Micro Spy Robo, it was easier and more logical to invent that Gero had taught them some recording about Goku, for example.

And 17 saying "I haven't heard that voice in a while" in Buu saga when he's never met Goku?

Video recordings can have voice ^^

So creating an extra complex backstory is more believable than 18 being surprised a kid killed a monster. Gotcha.

I repeat, as far as we know A-18 was absorbed in the same way as 17. If 17 could see the events from inside Cell, 18 obligatorily must also have seen what was happening outside. It doesn't make sense that one can see what happens and the other doesn't. 18 should have seen how Gohan became a monster much more powerful than Cell.

Aaaand, now that I think about it, if 17 was still alive inside Cell, it was Gohan who killed him, and that means he should not have been resurrected when they asked for the desire to resurrect all Cell's victims XDDDD

That's incorrect. 17 died when Cell self destructed.

[HECTOR4]

That's incorrect. 17 died when Cell self destructed.

Yes, is true!! Good point!! ^^ But in that case 17 must have been revived in the place where the planet of Kaiô was.

Toyotaro could have taken advantage of that, and made 17 go lost in the Other World, until Goku finds him and makes Baba or Dende take him back to Earth XDDD And that could be the reason why 17 knew Goku XD

[Noah]

It doesn't make sense that 17 knew the voice and the aspect of Goku to be inside Cell. When 18 wakes up in the God's Palace she is surprised that Gohan defeated Cell, which means that being inside Cell couldn't be aware of what was happening outside.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nor does it make sense for Dende to know about Oob. In the tournament of the end of the original manga, when Piccolo says that the battle of Goku and Oob will be the most interesting Dende is surprised, he doesn't know why that battle should be the most interesting, because Dende doesn't know who Oob is.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Thanks for that, it always a please to see more Super plot holes

[OLKv3]

That's incorrect. 17 died when Cell self destructed.

Yes, is true!! Good point!! ^^ But in that case 17 must have been revived in the place where the planet of Kaiô was.

Toyotaro could have taken advantage of that, and made 17 go lost in the Other World, until Goku finds him and makes Baba or Dende take him back to Earth XDDD And that could be the reason why 17 knew Goku XD

Everyone Cell absorbed should've been revived on the space where Kaio's planet used to be. That'd be great lmao.

[HECTOR4]

It doesn't make sense that 17 knew the voice and the aspect of Goku to be inside Cell. When 18 wakes up in the God's Palace she is surprised that Gohan defeated Cell, which means that being inside Cell couldn't be aware of what was happening outside.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nor does it make sense for Dende to know about Oob. In the tournament of the end of the original manga, when Piccolo says that the battle of Goku and Oob will be the most interesting Dende is surprised, he doesn't know why that battle should be the most interesting, because Dende doesn't know who Oob is.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Thanks for that, it always a please to see more Super plot holes

The case of 18 can be explained. As someone told me on Twitter 18 maybe I was unconscious inside Cell. Maybe she got bored in the fight between Satan and Cell and fell asleep. XDDDD

That's incorrect. 17 died when Cell self destructed.

Yes, is true!! Good point!! ^^ But in that case 17 must have been revived in the place where the planet of Kaiô was.

Toyotaro could have taken advantage of that, and made 17 go lost in the Other World, until Goku finds him and makes Baba or Dende take him back to Earth XDDD And that could be the reason why 17 knew Goku XD

Everyone Cell absorbed should've been revived on the space where Kaio's planet used to be. That'd be great lmao.

It is not the same case. The people that Cell absorbed died on Earth, converted into energy for Cell. 17 was not absorbed and transformed into energy, 17 was absorbed full-body when he was alive, and he was still alive inside Cell, listening and seeing everything that was happening outside. And he died on the planet of Kaiô when Cell self-destructed.

[HeroR]

Um, its not that complex, Android 16 had loads of crap on Goku, and we're expected 17 and 18 to not have similar information?

The manga explanation is Super freaking contrived. How the hell are you aware of whats happening to your surroundings, to the point you can hear and identify someones voice, when in your someones stomach, and not only that, obviously reduced in size somehow in order to compensate for the smaller frame of the being who ingested you. That makes way more sense then saying they were programmed with some inheirent information about Goku like the model down of you is.

I think it makes more sense that 18 didn't have any idea what was happening after they were absorbed, that way, when she came to, on top of Dende's tower, should would have geniune reason to be clueless about the events that transpired, rather than somehow magically being able to recall what happening inside someones STOMACH!

Well, you can enjoy the fridge horror that 17 and 18 were aware of everything and couldn't do anything about it. And 17 was aware that he was going to die when Cell decided to rage quit.

[LightBing]

So much nit-picking. How do some people ever enjoyed Dragon Ball obsessing over small things is beyond me.

From my understanding there wasn't any explanation as to how Cell's interior worked as such there's no reason to claim plot holes. #18 could simply choose not to listen, maybe she couldn't listen because she didn't have the mental fortitude, maybe they could only listen while Cell was resting, maybe #17 has excellent hearing! This witch-hunting is silly.

Regarding Oob seems like a slight oversight. I honestly wouldn't put it beyond Mr.Toriyama re-releasing the last arc of the manga to accommodate the new changes. I for one would like that.

[HECTOR4]

Regarding Oob seems like a slight oversight. I honestly wouldn't put it beyond Mr.Toriyama re-releasing the last arc of the manga to accommodate the new changes. I for one would like that.

And would not it be better for Toyotaro to fix that little oversight when the compilation in volume appears? It was unnecessary to mention Oob. Its appearance doesn't contribute anything, on the contrary, destroys the mystery of its later appearance. Toyotaro could remove those pages and use them to show other things, for example more time of the conversation of Goku and 17, where the cyborg shows a picture of his family and we finally see his design.

[BlueVegerot]

Hopefully next chapter is freeza time. I don't expect the assassins to come after freeza so it will be interesting to see if freeza and goku spar. Also i wonder if toyotaro will go with the image training route for freeza having less stamina issues or just say that his dead body ala ssj3 goku

[LightBing]

Regarding Oob seems like a slight oversight. I honestly wouldn't put it beyond Mr.Toriyama re-releasing the last arc of the manga to accommodate the new changes. I for one would like that.

And would not it be better for Toyotaro to fix that little oversight when the compilation in volume appears? It was unnecessary to mention Oob. Its appearance doesn't contribute anything, on the contrary, destroys the mystery of its later appearance. Toyotaro could remove those pages and use them to show other things, for example more time of the conversation of Goku and 17, where the cyborg shows a picture of his family and we finally see his design.

I'm waiting for the translation to see what's actually said. I find it weird Toyotarõ mentioning Oob just because, it might a reminder because he'll be important later own. Currently I'm on the boat that it's a set up for later.
The mystery part ins't relevant, everyone knows who Oob is.

[MR.Mark]

Regarding Oob seems like a slight oversight. I honestly wouldn't put it beyond Mr.Toriyama re-releasing the last arc of the manga to accommodate the new changes. I for one would like that.

And would not it be better for Toyotaro to fix that little oversight when the compilation in volume appears? It was unnecessary to mention Oob. Its appearance doesn't contribute anything, on the contrary, destroys the mystery of its later appearance.

We more or less knew something was coming the moment Goku gave his final words to Kid Buu anyway.

[JulianStyles]

Good to see the manga is fixing the travesty and disrespect for characters and known power scale that the anime has done. Toriyama gives suggestions, changes things and proof reads Toyotaros manga before it finalized. This is the true canon of Super.

In your opinion

To a lot of peoples opinion.

[JulianStyles]

It's not enough. Toyotaro should already do the entire thing. Honestly since the beginning of Super I always thought Toriyama isn't even trying. Things like Roshi and Ten in the tournament instead of Goten and Trunks are his doing. Toyotaro has fixed some things like Goku and Vegeta absorbing the god power even in base form (hence you would have Vegeta beating Gotenks ss3 without effort in the anime).

Leaving the kids out made sense it terms of maturity,stakes and dicipline. But how they over powered Roshi was horrible. For mind numb kids it may have looked cool. But for those who cared about the series it was just bad. I hope the manga keeps what he does in the tournament strategy based. Not going toe to toe with Frost. And over powering U4 strongest fighter.

He didn’t go toe-to-toe with Frost and didn’t overpower Ganos.

Ganos not transformed could take on base Goku. And Roshi was man handling him. Transformed Ganos is probably SS1 level or higher, and Roshi smacked him aside like it was nothing. Yes Ganos gradually gets stronger. But for a long time Roshi was stronger and faster. By the time Roshi fired his Kamehameha Ganos was most likely above SS2. So Roshis max power surpassed SS2. Granted it briefly killed him.

As to the Frost thing. Remember Roshi was severely weakened and injured. And was still able to stand after a few attacks by Frost. Not to mention the time Roshi powered up. Caught Frost with a few hits forcing Frost to dodge. If Roshi couldn't damage Frost he wouldnt need to dodge. I dont even know what youre trying to disprove. Roshis dominance and performance was out of character. And if the manga stays true we wont see him. Catching ki spears and smacking a transformed Ganos like a fly. Lightening surprise and mafuba should have been his only successful tools.

[nato25]

Couldnt dende just be shocked that goku vs oob would be the best match of the tournament. Say as opposed to goku and vegeta being the best match. Its not like oob was crazy strong at that point and probably could have been beaten by a lot of the cast.

[Olympian]

I dont see any worth for Uub anymore. Goku has reached the level of GoD's. Him training Uub really wont change the Status Qou. AT BEST even Uub comes to the level of the Gods. Then what? We already saw like almost no Universe comes close to the level of even Piccolo.. much less someone like Goku...

Really? Uub is already born with the highest potential of anyone under Gods and you think it doesn`t make any sense Goku would want to train him? Take GT out of the way, since Toryama doesn`t consider it a sequel proper, the sky is the limit.

Really glad Uub show up, that was my favorite part of the chapter.

Nah bra has the highest potential now.

We don`t know that, Bra wasn`t even a figther in GT. Uub is a known quality, Bra has never been.

[BlueVegerot]

Arguing about potential is pointless. Among saiyans goku and vegeta are near the bottom in terms of potential, however none of the higher potential saiyans aka goten, trunks, bulla and pan are or will be relevant. Even Gohan was shelved aside for the majority of super when he was a huge part of Z.

Also considering uub is gonna be born with kid buu level power, he could make freeza look like a total chump when it comes to gains for all we know

[Olympian]

That`s what I mean. We already saw how Toryama intended Ubb to be powerful in the final chapter of his manga and that was before he had any oficial training in using his raw power. He was all instinct and emotion.

Bra is a shopping girl until they do something with her, if they ever.

[wolflonnie]

Good to see the manga is fixing the travesty and disrespect for characters and known power scale that the anime has done. Toriyama gives suggestions, changes things and proof reads Toyotaros manga before it finalized. This is the true canon of Super.

In your opinion

To a lot of peoples opinion.

So what? The majority wins and decide?

[Namz]

It doesn't make sense that 17 knew the voice and the aspect of Goku to be inside Cell. When 18 wakes up in the God's Palace she is surprised that Gohan defeated Cell, which means that being inside Cell couldn't be aware of what was happening outside.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nor does it make sense for Dende to know about Oob. In the tournament of the end of the original manga, when Piccolo says that the battle of Goku and Oob will be the most interesting Dende is surprised, he doesn't know why that battle should be the most interesting, because Dende doesn't know who Oob is.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Thanks for that, it always a please to see more Super plot holes

These haters...

It's not a Super hole. It's a DBZ hole. 17 knew the voice of Goku without seeing or hearing him. This is only a (futile) try of Toyotaro to fix that.