Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Doctor.]

I'm not saying the writers will write anything the quality of Vince Gilligan does, but we know where Jimmy McGill ends up, but that doesn't make his journey into Saul Goodman less interesting.

There isn't much of a drastic change between what Goku is now and what he is at EoZ and, thus, there isn't much to do with the character.

I'm not referring purely to arcs. I'm talking about writing Goku as a man in his 40s/50s and as a father and grandfather, a warrior with lots of life and battle experience.

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

[TheUltimateNinja]

There isn't much of a drastic change between what Goku is now and what he is at EoZ and, thus, there isn't much to do with the character.

I'm not referring purely to arcs. I'm talking about writing Goku as a man in his 40s/50s and as a father and grandfather, a warrior with lots of life and battle experience.

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

Actually this time period has the potential to be very interesting as it could delve into Goku's ennui at having very few opponents strong enough for him. They may not be capitalizing on it but the opportunity is definitely there.

[ABED]

The first Broly movie is long and boring. BoG was one of the more interesting DB films.

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

And? EoZ was all of 3 episodes. And while GT did it, that doesn't mean Super or future movies can't do it. I'm more interested in that aspect of him than going to the past because it's popular. Saiyan history isn't that interesting outside of how it affects the present of the story. I think the experienced Goku is more fertile ground for stories than the past of a long dead race.

[Doctor.]

I'm not referring purely to arcs. I'm talking about writing Goku as a man in his 40s/50s and as a father and grandfather, a warrior with lots of life and battle experience.

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

Actually this time period has the potential to be very interesting as it could delve into Goku's ennui at having very few opponents strong enough for him. Toei may not be capitalizing on it but the opportunity is definitely there.

He has too many strong opponents for him. Outside of the strong mortals like Jiren, he has the GoDs and the Angels. That's more than a dozen characters he has yet to defeat.

It was Beerus' character arc in Super's rendition of BoG - his innui that rose from the inability of finding a strong opponent that could challenge him; and that arc also lost a lot of weight after we figured out that he knew 11 other GoDs at his strength level.

And? EoZ was all of 3 episodes. And while GT did it, that doesn't mean Super can't do it. I'm more interested in that aspect of him than going to the past because it's popular. Saiyan history isn't that interesting outside of how it affects the present of the story. I think the experienced Goku is more fertile ground for stories than the past of a long dead race.

Saiyan history isn't limited to itself. It involves Freeza and the Tsufruians.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

Actually this time period has the potential to be very interesting as it could delve into Goku's ennui at having very few opponents strong enough for him. Toei may not be capitalizing on it but the opportunity is definitely there.

He has too many strong opponents for him. Outside of the strong mortals like Jiren, he has the GoDs and the Angels. That's more than a dozen characters he has yet to defeat.

It was Beerus' character arc in Super's rendition of BoG - his innui that rose from the inability of finding a strong opponent that could challenge him; and that arc also lost a lot of weight after we figured out that he knew 11 other GoDs at his strength level.

It's only been 2-3 years and Goku has already reached a level supposedly higher than Gods of Destruction, by the time EoZ comes around I'm sure he'll be above the Angels as well and Zeno isn't a fighter so he's out of the question.

The first Broly movie is long and boring. BoG was one of the more interesting DB films.

But that's just what EoZ and, to a poorer extent, GT did.

And? EoZ was all of 3 episodes. And while GT did it, that doesn't mean Super can't do it. I'm more interested in that aspect of him than going to the past because it's popular. Saiyan history isn't that interesting outside of how it affects the present of the story. I think the experienced Goku is more fertile ground for stories than the past of a long dead race.

I agree with you, but in practice they don't seem to be taking Goku's character anywhere. He's still entertaining to watch but he's basically just the same old guy, just annoyingly flanderized for 'funny gags'. Thus unfortunately that potential is merely being squandered.

[ABED]

Yes, and the story delved into both years ago. That was the interesting part.

This is neither here nor there, but the term "Flanderize" annoys me because Flanders is more dimensional than the term implies.

[Doctor.]

It's only been 2-3 years and Goku has already reached a level supposedly higher than Gods of Destruction, by the time EoZ comes around I'm sure he'll be above the Angels as well and Zeno isn't a fighter so he's out of the question.

Goku becoming the strongest there is is one of my biggest fears for Super. It goes against one of DB's very first themes.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

DB Minus is bad. Gine is the only good thing from there and it doesn't help Bardock TV Special exists for a quick comparison. In the fact the existence of that TV Special is what makes me despise Minus, despite coming from Toriyama himself. If I didn't find that TV Special as perfect as I do, I would be much more receptive to this subject.

I don't like Minus at all either because of how watered down everything ended up being, to the unnecessary retcons made. Preferably I like the angle taken in Toyotaro' Raditz-origin fan-manga far better. It doesn't even make sense that Toriyama suggested Raditz being paired with Nappa and Vegeta made him comparable to an elite warrior when he was weakling in comparison. My headcanon always said that he was with them because they were on a recon mission for Kakarot. Not that he was officially there.

U7 full-blooded Saiyans were always portrayed as barbaric, ruthless and muscular, but that changed in DB Minus and assuming this is really about U7 Saiyans Toriyama may do it again.

I really hope the tone shift in Minus doesn't carry over but there is a high probability. A lot of modern Toriyama seems to be reductive to everything more cliche-breaking in the original. I'm just worried about the writing because of the tone U6 has. It always came off as just being a retcon of the Saiyan lore in general but only as far as possible without completely changing the first 2 Z arcs.

I liked the last interview about S-Cells and Yamoshi's story, but I'm worried about what Toriyama may do if we gonna dive deeper into it.
In before Goku turns out to be Yamoshi's reincarnated....

I really hope it doesn't come to that. We already had this cringe moment when they did this in Naruto. I already don't like the story of Yamoshi being both an SSG and an SS and still losing to a bunch of Oozaru if thats what happened. Its dumb. I can only see it working if this was a conflict not with 'evil Saiyans' but with the Freeza forces before the Saiyans were officially colonized. Yamoshi loses, and thus the Saiyans join the empire. Or they could have had the Super Saiyan fight the Nameless Namek who in canon already is at an SS level. Then that fight would make sense why the Namekians know of the legend. Other than that, this retcon just seems like it came out of thin air and doesn't connect to anything logical.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yes, and the story delved into both years ago. That was the interesting part.

This is neither here nor there, but the term "Flanderize" annoys me because Flanders is more dimensional than the term implies.

I'm sure by now the context of the term is well removed from the actual character.

When exactly did the story do that? The only time I can really think of as at the end of the 23rd TB and nothing happened there, Goku just settled down, and at EoZ but it was already solved when Goku met Uub.

It's only been 2-3 years and Goku has already reached a level supposedly higher than Gods of Destruction, by the time EoZ comes around I'm sure he'll be above the Angels as well and Zeno isn't a fighter so he's out of the question.

Goku becoming the strongest there is is one of my biggest fears for Super. It goes against one of DB's very first themes.

I'm sure there'll be even higher Gods than Zeno once we reach that point, but Goku needs a reason to feel the way he does during EoZ, it's pointless if he knows there's still people far above him.

What I'm wondering is why the current Goku would even give a damn about Uub.

[ABED]

I was referring to Doctor's point.

I'm sure by now the context of the term is well removed from the actual character.

Was it ever not?

[Doctor.]

What I'm wondering is why the current Goku would even give a damn about Uub.

Potential, I guess? If Freeza and #17 can asspull themselves to his level, then surely Oob can go even beyond.

I just know modern Toriyama and Saiyan lore don't jive well. Expect a movie full of malnourished prodigy fighters who happen to be pure of heart and naive. Any depiction of the Saiyans' genocidal habits will be of them killing non-humanoid lifeforms like in Minus, so you don't relate to the innocents being killed and start thinking maybe the Saiyans weren't that bad.

And an underwhelming SS transformation for Yamoshi, if it's about him.

[Dbzfan94]

If Goku ends up being the reincarnation of Yamoshi that would be terrible.

[MR.Mark]

Goku needs a reason to feel the way he does during EoZ, it's pointless if he knows there's still people far above him.

What I'm wondering is why the current Goku would even give a damn about Uub.

Dende already requested Goku train Uub in Super. I believe there going to make EOZ more special with the added material.

[ABED]

If Goku ends up being the reincarnation of Yamoshi that would be terrible.

Who is Yamoshi?

[TheUltimateNinja]

What I'm wondering is why the current Goku would even give a damn about Uub.

Potential, I guess? If Freeza and #17 can asspull themselves to his level, then surely Oob can go even beyond.

I just know modern Toriyama and Saiyan lore doesn't jive well. Expect a movie full of malnourished prodigy fighters who happen to be pure of heart and naive. Any depiction of the Saiyans' genocidal habits will be of them killing non-humanoid lifeforms like in Minus, so you don't relate to the innocents being killed and start thinking maybe the Saiyans weren't that bad.

And an underwhelming SS transformation for Yamoshi, if it's about him.

Toriyama had the right idea making everyone go SSJ offscreen back in DB.

If Goku ends up being the reincarnation of Yamoshi that would be terrible.

Who is Yamoshi?

The guy whose spirit gives you SSGod powers, supposedly the original Saiyan of legend.

[Noah]

I just know modern Toriyama and Saiyan lore don't jive well. Expect a movie full of malnourished prodigy fighters who happen to be pure of heart and naive. Any depiction of the Saiyans' genocidal habits will be of them killing non-humanoid lifeforms like in Minus, so you don't relate to the innocents being killed and start thinking maybe the Saiyans weren't that bad.

Wow, this sounds awful... Would you think Toriyama would retcon the Saiyans nature as being good people just because of Minus?

[Doctor.]

I just know modern Toriyama and Saiyan lore don't jive well. Expect a movie full of malnourished prodigy fighters who happen to be pure of heart and naive. Any depiction of the Saiyans' genocidal habits will be of them killing non-humanoid lifeforms like in Minus, so you don't relate to the innocents being killed and start thinking maybe the Saiyans weren't that bad.

Wow, this sounds awful... Would you think Toriyama would retcon the Saiyans nature as being good people just because of Minus?

I don't doubt him retconning the Saiyans into being good creatures corrupted by Freeza/another source, no.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I just know modern Toriyama and Saiyan lore don't jive well. Expect a movie full of malnourished prodigy fighters who happen to be pure of heart and naive. Any depiction of the Saiyans' genocidal habits will be of them killing non-humanoid lifeforms like in Minus, so you don't relate to the innocents being killed and start thinking maybe the Saiyans weren't that bad.

Wow, this sounds awful... Would you think Toriyama would retcon the Saiyans nature as being good people just because of Minus?

I don't doubt him retconning the Saiyans into being good creatures corrupted by Freeza/another source, no.

This is exactly what he stopped them from doing in BoG, I doubt he'd do it himself.

[Doctor.]

This is exactly what he stopped them from doing in BoG, I doubt he'd do it himself.

How many times has Toriyama contradicted himself in his life again?

[DBZfan29]

I really wanted to go to Jump Festa yesterday, but the trains were down when I left home. I can’t believe I missed this! Hopefully there’s some other cool Dragon Ball news I can see today though I doubt they’ll say anything more than what’s already been announced. I’m really excited for this!

It’ll be interesting to see how this film affects Super. It’s being made alongside the series. Does anyone think they won’t do anything big for Super until after the film comes out? They’ve done a lot of episodes in between arcs, but I doubt they could do that for a couple of months (I’d be fine with a hiatus if it meant they could make a really great film with all hands on deck). Also, will they eventually adapt this to Super? Super came at a weird time, so it’ll be really interesting to see how things are going forward.