Is Vegeta a smart fighter?

[Khandom101]

Seriously, why do people keep on insisting that Vegeta is smart when it comes to battle, . I mean, I haven't seen an ounce of battle tactics or strategy from Vegeta in Dragon ball super nor in the majority of Dbz. He literally fights like a moron or should I dare say a dumb brute. In my personal opinion, Vegeta is probably the most brute minded fighter in dragon ball (Even Gohan is better at fighting tactically as shown in the tournament of power). what are you thoughts on this and please, don't forget that this just my personal opinion. Bye

[SupremeKai25]

You are right.

For example, in ep. 60, Vegeta charged against Black and Zamasu with no logical plan or strategy in mind. He even replied to Goku's valid question 'What about the plan?' with 'Defeat Black first!!!!' and even admitted they came to the Future timeline, -to face an immortal and supremely powerful duo-, without a plan. As you said, he never showed an ounce of vision and cunning, he always charged right into battle without a single thought about the consequences of his bold engagement.

So from the Future Trunks arc, Vegeta does not come off as a strategist, a military genius who employs calculated tactics and schemes to secure victory, he appers as a brute and a prick who charges against the enemy with no logical thought or caution. Indeed, we saw it in ep. 56 too, when he underestimated Super Saiyan Rosè Black and payed heavily for his stubborness. He is short-sighted, brash, arrogant, confident. But a smart fighter? Not so much.

[PsionicWarrior]

Vegeta is a genius fighter only second to Goku but his character is sadly poorly written in Super.

[sintzu]

The entire plan of using the spirit bomb against Buu and having it made of earth's energy was his idea.

He noticed how strong Babidi's minions were and figured that partially falling under his control would get him to Goku's level.

He was the first one to figure out Buu's weakness was completely blowing him up so he couldn't regenerate.

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and distract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

He was the 1st one to find a level beyond Ssj (Assj).

He managed to trick Gero into thinking he wasn't worn out from his fight with #19 which Piccolo himself says was a genius move.

He waited for Guldo to be distracted before cutting his head off, smething he couldn't have done if he fought him face to face.

He was smart enough to escape Freeza's ship after being captured by tricking them into thinking he already left and while doing so got Freeza's dragon balls.

Instead of directly attacking head on he waited for Dodoria, Cui & Zarbon to each be alone.

During his fight on earth he was able to overcome everything the heroes threw at him until he made the mistake of cutting Gohan's tail off while being under him.

In Super he was smart enough to know not to upset Beerus when he first went to earth.

He figured the best way to catching up with Goku was getting Whis to train him.

He made the right move by taking out Ginyu from the start as his body switch would've been a major problem for everyone.

He figured out Freeza's energy drain first.

He tricked Cabba in order to help him reach Ssj.

In the manga he was able to switch back and forth between Red and Blue without any problems, something Goku praised him for.

When Trunks tried to heal him he was smart enough to figure out Goku had mastered Blue and had Trunks heal him instead.

He said multiple times that getting Gohan back into fighting would be a great help for them as he had the most potential among them.

In GT he suggested fusion right after reaching Ssj4 as he knew it was the only way to beat Omega despite not liking it and probably preferring to do it with his newly reached Ssj4.

If you haven't noticed all that (there's probably more) or it isn't enough to change your mind then you're simply seeing what you want to see.

[Kanassa]

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and destract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

You mean, he stayed back pissing himself after Cell humiliated him again, but found the courage to sack up just in time to blast Cell.

[sintzu]

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and destract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

You mean, he stayed back pissing himself after Cell humiliated him again, but found the courage to sack up just in time to blast Cell.

You can call it whatever you want but fact of the matter is Cell would've won if it weren't for him attacking at that specific moment.

[Michsi]

He's prone to letting his pride dictate his actions and combined with that temperament of his, makes it seem like he's on the lower tier when it comes to smart fighting. But I don't think it was ever the intention to make it seem like he is lacking in that department, definitely not in the Namek Saga. He's been called a genius by the other several times. He was more cautious and resourceful in that arc, but once he obtains the SSJ form, it feels almost like he thinks he is too good for strategy and such.

[Kanassa]

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and destract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

You mean, he stayed back pissing himself after Cell humiliated him again, but found the courage to sack up just in time to blast Cell.

You can call it whatever you want but fact of the matter is Cell would've won if it weren't for him attacking at that specific moment.

Dress it up any way you want, he didn't display intelligence or planning there, he just fired a blast at Cell in one last desperate moment. Iit helped save the day, but it wasn't an example of being smart. And no, having common sense does not make one smart, especially with such a high ranking stupidity track record that Vegeta holds.

[sintzu]

Dress it up any way you want, he didn't display intelligence or planning there, he just fired a blast at Cell in one last desperate moment.

Piccolo and everyone else did the same thing but his was the only one that did anything so there was timing involved in it or otherwise it also wouldn't have worked.

[Michsi]

Dress it up any way you want, he didn't display intelligence or planning there, he just fired a blast at Cell in one last desperate moment.

Piccolo and everyone else did the same thing but his was the only one that did anything so there was timing involved in it or otherwise it also wouldn't have worked.

Only in the anime, and I'm fairly sure it was supposed to show he was the only one powerful enough to actually put a dent in Cell at that time . He's had plenty of smart moments, but I wouldn't say this constitutes as one of them :/

[sintzu]

Only in the anime...

So ? as far as I know we're talking about the whole franchise.

[Michsi]

Only in the anime...

So ? as far as I know we're talking about the whole franchise.

When it comes to Z, most boil it down to what happened in the manga for the sake of consistency and simplicity. Toei's additions tend to complicate, and sometimes downright contradict, certain elements.

[sintzu]

When it comes to Z, most boil it down to what happened in the manga for the sake of consistency and simplicity.

In that case then we should do that with Super as well due to its manga being more consistant.

[Kanassa]

Dress it up any way you want, he didn't display intelligence or planning there, he just fired a blast at Cell in one last desperate moment.

Piccolo and everyone else did the same thing but his was the only one that did anything so there was timing involved in it or otherwise it also wouldn't have worked.

It wasn't timing, it was power.

[Michsi]

When it comes to Z, most boil it down to what happened in the manga for the sake of consistency and simplicity.

In that case then we should do that with Super as well due to its manga being more consistant.

A lot of people do anyway. Only problem is, the anime is being promoted as the main attraction this time around and the manga as the addendum. You can wait and see what plot points coincide to figure out what was in Toriyama's outline and what was added/modified by Toei.

[HeroR]

Seriously, why do people keep on insisting that Vegeta is smart when it comes to battle, . I mean, I haven't seen an ounce of battle tactics or strategy from Vegeta in Dragon ball super nor in the majority of Dbz. He literally fights like a moron or should I dare say a dumb brute. In my personal opinion, Vegeta is probably the most brute minded fighter in dragon ball (Even Gohan is better at fighting tactically as shown in the tournament of power). what are you thoughts on this and please, don't forget that this just my personal opinion. Bye

Gohan is far more of a brute than Vegeta. Case in point, look how Vegeta handled Botamo and compare that to Gohan. Heck with Gohan, they had to rewriter how Botamo's power work for his plan to work.

Vegeta can be clever, like how he dealt with Magetta in the Champa Saga or even how he tried to beat Hit, even if it failed. But he does tend to rely on railroading, but he's nowhere near as bad as Gohan whose only clever fight was with Lavender.

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and destract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

You mean, he stayed back pissing himself after Cell humiliated him again, but found the courage to sack up just in time to blast Cell.

You can call it whatever you want but fact of the matter is Cell would've won if it weren't for him attacking at that specific moment.

And Cell would have also not been so closed to winning if Vegeta didn't charged Cell and Gohan saved him, at the expense of his arm.

So, good for Vegeta for helping to clean up his own mess.

A lot of people do anyway. Only problem is, the anime is being promoted as the main attraction this time around and the manga as the addendum. You can wait and see what plot points coincide to figure out what was in Toriyama's outline and what was added/modified by Toei.

Not really true since Vegetto Blue wasn't in Toriyama's outline. It was a suggesting by Toyo. Super Saiyan God thing coming back and was taking up by the anime was also Toyo, not Toriyama.

[Jigurashi]

He is a smart fighter, but he often gets portrayed like brute (not to the extent of Gohan though) so we don't usually get to see it as often.

[sintzu]

It wasn't timing, it was power.

How much power could he have left after getting hit the way he did ? Yeah he was most likely stronger than Piccolo even after taking that hit but timing still played a role in it even if it was a small one.

[TysonWine]

snip

Lol, there's certainly nothing genius about most of this.

In Super he was smart enough to know not to upset Beerus when he first went to earth.

That’s common sense. You’re not a genius for not poking the bear.

He figured the best way to catching up with Goku was getting Whis to train him.

You don’t say. Does Goku get genius points for wanting to train with Whis to?

He was the first one to figure out Buu's weakness was completely blowing him up so he couldn't regenerate.

First off, it didn’t work. So, if that was some sort of masterplan, it failed. Second, he was out options, self destruction was all he had left. Third, literally giving his life for his love ones would be an act of showing character more than anything else.

When Trunks tried to heal him he was smart enough to figure out Goku had mastered Blue and had Trunks heal him instead.

This is the equivalent of giving the last senzu bean to the strongest fighter. Any of the Z-fighters would’ve done this. Once again, Vegeta swallowing his pride shows CHARACTER which is what these types of scenes are about, not his intelligence as a fighter. By your standards and logic, Vegeta showed otherworldly brilliance by giving energy to Goku to help beat Broly in Movie 8.

He said multiple times that getting Gohan back into fighting would be a great help for them as he had the most potential among them.

...and?


I like Vegeta and I can admit when he did show signs of being a Genius in and out of combat such as…

He was smart enough to escape Freeza's ship after being captured by tricking them into thinking he already left and while doing so got Freeza's dragon balls.

This was quite cunning.

In the manga he was able to switch back and forth between Red and Blue without any problems, something Goku praised him for.

I don’t think we’ve ever seen someone switch between two transformations in a battle to gain an advantage. That was brilliant.

Vegeta has shown a sharp mind multiple times, but a lot of your examples are reaching. When you have to reach to that extent, you actually hurt the point you’re trying to make rather than help it, because if what you say is true then you shouldn’t need such dumb downed examples to prove it. If I said, Krillin's a fighting genius because he knew to distract Frieza while Dende healed Gohan would that be acceptable?

Edit:

Dress it up any way you want, he didn't display intelligence or planning there, he just fired a blast at Cell in one last desperate moment.

Piccolo and everyone else did the same thing but his was the only one that did anything so there was timing involved in it or otherwise it also wouldn't have worked.

It wasn't timing, it was power.

Correct, it was power. I don't know what timing had to do with anything considering Goku told Gohan "Now's your chance," as a result of Cell being crippled by Vegeta's blast.

[PsionicWarrior]

Lol, there's certainly nothing genius about most of this.

Still smarter than most decisions from all other Z fighters, that is when they even think of something lol