Is Vegeta a smart fighter?

[TBMx]

The entire plan of using the spirit bomb against Buu and having it made of earth's energy was his idea.

He noticed how strong Babidi's minions were and figured that partially falling under his control would get him to Goku's level.

A plan which wouldn't have worked were it not for the unforseen intervention of fat Buu.

He was the first one to figure out Buu's weakness was completely blowing him up so he couldn't regenerate.

Blew himself up in an attack that vapourizes a huge area, when all he had to do was vapourize all of Buu. 99.9% of that Final Explosion was wasted on empty space,

He waited for the perfect moment to step in and distract Cell so Gohan could kill him.

He let cell Get perfect to begin with and his anger deteriorated his fighting skill against perfect Cell.

He was the 1st one to find a level beyond Ssj (Assj).

It's not a separate level. Just ssj1 with pumped up muscles. But at least he wasn't as dumb as Trunks here.

He managed to trick Gero into thinking he wasn't worn out from his fight with #19 which Piccolo himself says was a genius move

The genius move would be not letting 19 grab his wrists and killing them both with right there.

H

e waited for Guldo to be distracted before cutting his head off, smething he couldn't have done if he fought him face to face.

He couldn't move faster than Guldo could suck in air? Pretty sure he could.

He was smart enough to escape Freeza's ship after being captured by tricking them into thinking he already left and while doing so got Freeza's dragon balls.

Instead of directly attacking head on he waited for Dodoria, Cui & Zarbon to each be alone.

Basic common sense. Not genius.

During his fight on earth he was able to overcome everything the heroes threw at him until he made the mistake of cutting Gohan's tail off while being under him.

He lost even with an Oozaru of 180,000 powerlevel. That's not a point in his favour.

I

n Super he was smart enough to know not to upset Beerus when he first went to earth.

He was told beforehand by king kai because King Kai figured Vegeta was likeliest to do something stupid.

He figured the best way to catching up with Goku was getting Whis to train him.

Whis basically flat out told him that. He didnt really figure it out.

He made the right move by taking out Ginyu from the start as his body switch would've been a major problem for everyone.

I'll give him that one.

He figured out Freeza's energy drain first.

That's not made clear.

He tricked Cabba in order to help him reach Ssj

.

then wasted ssb

In the manga he was able to switch back and forth between Red and Blue without any problems, something Goku praised him for.

Manga Vegeta is smarter. Shame Goku stole it in the anime.

When Trunks tried to heal him he was smart enough to figure out Goku had mastered Blue and had Trunks heal him instead.

Manga Vegeta is smarter.

He said multiple times that getting Gohan back into fighting would be a great help for them as he had the most potential among them.

Had. That was before god ki.

In GT he suggested fusion right after reaching Ssj4 as he knew it was the only way to beat Omega despite not liking it and probably preferring to do it with his newly reached Ssj4.

In GT,after taking 17's back with an afterimage, he foolishly shouts "I've got you now"! Before kicking, allowing Super 17to dodge.Dr Myuu comments how he's fighting like a total amateur.

[Michsi]

[

A lot of people do anyway. Only problem is, the anime is being promoted as the main attraction this time around and the manga as the addendum. You can wait and see what plot points coincide to figure out what was in Toriyama's outline and what was added/modified by Toei.

Not really true since Vegetto Blue wasn't in Toriyama's outline. It was a suggesting by Toyo. Super Saiyan God thing coming back and was taking up by the anime was also Toyo, not Toriyama.

That it was suggested by someone other than Toriyama is irrelevant, what matters is that he agreed to it and used it. I already said that I believe that the formation of Super's arcs are mostly a collective effort, but he is the one that decides what stays and what goes. I mean, would anyone claim that the kamehameha name doesn't belong to Toriyama's Dragon Ball because it was his wife that came up with it?

[TysonWine]

"During his fight on earth he was able to overcome everything the heroes threw at him until he made the mistake of cutting Gohan's tail off while being under him."

He lost even with an Oozaru of 180,000 powerlevel. That's not a point in his favour.

Exactly, that point defeats itself. In the Dragonball universe, the person with the higher power level is expected to win, and a loss would actually show less competence. Vegeta was stronger than everyone on the battlefield and found a way to lose. He didn't overcome anything, he was spared.

[Khandom101]

"During his fight on earth he was able to overcome everything the heroes threw at him until he made the mistake of cutting Gohan's tail off while being under him."

He lost even with an Oozaru of 180,000 powerlevel. That's not a point in his favour.

Exactly, that point defeats itself. In the Dragonball universe, the person with the higher power level is expected to win, and a loss would actually show less competence. Vegeta was stronger than everyone on the battlefield and found a way to lose. He didn't overcome anything, he was spared.

well, he is arrogant (thinks he is above everyone else, one of the main reasons why he loses so often). Currently, he reminds me of cell saga Vegeta and He needs his retarded butt humbled, the only way to get it is through Jiren stomping him in episode 122. Hoping for the best .

[Khandom101]

Seriously, why do people keep on insisting that Vegeta is smart when it comes to battle, . I mean, I haven't seen an ounce of battle tactics or strategy from Vegeta in Dragon ball super nor in the majority of Dbz. He literally fights like a moron or should I dare say a dumb brute. In my personal opinion, Vegeta is probably the most brute minded fighter in dragon ball (Even Gohan is better at fighting tactically as shown in the tournament of power). what are you thoughts on this and please, don't forget that this just my personal opinion. Bye

Gohan is far more of a brute than Vegeta. Case in point, look how Vegeta handled Botamo and compare that to Gohan. Heck with Gohan, they had to rewriter how Botamo's power work for his plan to work.

Vegeta can be clever, like how he dealt with Magetta in the Champa Saga or even how he tried to beat Hit, even if it failed. But he does tend to rely on railroading, but he's nowhere near as bad as Gohan whose only clever fight was with Lavender.

You mean, he stayed back pissing himself after Cell humiliated him again, but found the courage to sack up just in time to blast Cell.

You can call it whatever you want but fact of the matter is Cell would've won if it weren't for him attacking at that specific moment.

And Cell would have also not been so closed to winning if Vegeta didn't charged Cell and Gohan saved him, at the expense of his arm.

So, good for Vegeta for helping to clean up his own mess.

A lot of people do anyway. Only problem is, the anime is being promoted as the main attraction this time around and the manga as the addendum. You can wait and see what plot points coincide to figure out what was in Toriyama's outline and what was added/modified by Toei.

Not really true since Vegetto Blue wasn't in Toriyama's outline. It was a suggesting by Toyo. Super Saiyan God thing coming back and was taking up by the anime was also Toyo, not Toriyama.

Seriously, why do you guys keep underestimating Gohan. He has to shown fight more tactically in this arc than Vegeta ever did.

[Doctor.]

Depends. He's portrayed as a smart fighter in the series, so in-universe, he's supposed to be one and we're supposed to believe that he is one. But I think most of his decisions are dumb, but that applies to 100% of the cast as well.

[HeroR]

Seriously, why do people keep on insisting that Vegeta is smart when it comes to battle, . I mean, I haven't seen an ounce of battle tactics or strategy from Vegeta in Dragon ball super nor in the majority of Dbz. He literally fights like a moron or should I dare say a dumb brute. In my personal opinion, Vegeta is probably the most brute minded fighter in dragon ball (Even Gohan is better at fighting tactically as shown in the tournament of power). what are you thoughts on this and please, don't forget that this just my personal opinion. Bye

Gohan is far more of a brute than Vegeta. Case in point, look how Vegeta handled Botamo and compare that to Gohan. Heck with Gohan, they had to rewriter how Botamo's power work for his plan to work.

Vegeta can be clever, like how he dealt with Magetta in the Champa Saga or even how he tried to beat Hit, even if it failed. But he does tend to rely on railroading, but he's nowhere near as bad as Gohan whose only clever fight was with Lavender.

You can call it whatever you want but fact of the matter is Cell would've won if it weren't for him attacking at that specific moment.

And Cell would have also not been so closed to winning if Vegeta didn't charged Cell and Gohan saved him, at the expense of his arm.

So, good for Vegeta for helping to clean up his own mess.

A lot of people do anyway. Only problem is, the anime is being promoted as the main attraction this time around and the manga as the addendum. You can wait and see what plot points coincide to figure out what was in Toriyama's outline and what was added/modified by Toei.

Not really true since Vegetto Blue wasn't in Toriyama's outline. It was a suggesting by Toyo. Super Saiyan God thing coming back and was taking up by the anime was also Toyo, not Toriyama.

Seriously, why do you guys keep underestimating Gohan. He has to shown fight more tactically in this arc than Vegeta ever did.

Sticking with Uncle Piccolo is not fighting more tactically, especially when Piccolo and even Freeza had to cover Gohan’s shortcomings.

[Khandom101]

Gohan is far more of a brute than Vegeta. Case in point, look how Vegeta handled Botamo and compare that to Gohan. Heck with Gohan, they had to rewriter how Botamo's power work for his plan to work.

Vegeta can be clever, like how he dealt with Magetta in the Champa Saga or even how he tried to beat Hit, even if it failed. But he does tend to rely on railroading, but he's nowhere near as bad as Gohan whose only clever fight was with Lavender.



And Cell would have also not been so closed to winning if Vegeta didn't charged Cell and Gohan saved him, at the expense of his arm.

So, good for Vegeta for helping to clean up his own mess.



Not really true since Vegetto Blue wasn't in Toriyama's outline. It was a suggesting by Toyo. Super Saiyan God thing coming back and was taking up by the anime was also Toyo, not Toriyama.

Seriously, why do you guys keep underestimating Gohan. He has to shown fight more tactically in this arc than Vegeta ever did.

Sticking with Uncle Piccolo is not fighting more tactically, especially when Piccolo and even Freeza had to cover Gohan’s shortcomings.

He was caught off guard, the same happened to Vegeta as well. I have to agree on the Freeza scenario that was pretty stupid of Gohan but his tactical moments in the arc outweigh his shortcomings

[Khandom101]

Depends. He's portrayed as a smart fighter in the series, so in-universe, he's supposed to be one and we're supposed to believe that he is one. But I think most of his decisions are dumb, but that applies to 100% of the cast as well.

Nah, he's only said to be a smart fighter but his actions are that of a brute. The English Dub didn't help much either (for example: Piccolo calling Vegeta smart in the cell saga, when we all know Vegeta's stupidity was at peak at that point). I have to disagree, most of the universe 7 team have been portrayed to be on some degree smart and tactical in this tournament other than Vegeta (who has even regressed as character)

[HeroR]

Seriously, why do you guys keep underestimating Gohan. He has to shown fight more tactically in this arc than Vegeta ever did.

Sticking with Uncle Piccolo is not fighting more tactically, especially when Piccolo and even Freeza had to cover Gohan’s shortcomings.

He was caught off guard, the same happened to Vegeta as well. I have agree on the Freeza scenario that was pretty stupid of Gohan but his tactical moments in the arc outweigh his shortcomings

He was off-guard when he knew a sniper was trying to shoot him. How dumb is Gohan?

He had one tactical moment in 118.

[Michsi]

Sticking with Uncle Piccolo is not fighting more tactically, especially when Piccolo and even Freeza had to cover Gohan’s shortcomings.

He was caught off guard, the same happened to Vegeta as well. I have agree on the Freeza scenario that was pretty stupid of Gohan but his tactical moments in the arc outweigh his shortcomings

He was off-guard when he knew a sniper was trying to shoot him. How dumb is Gohan?

He had one tactical moment in 118.

To be fair, he thought they were covered by the dust.

And in 119.

But yeah, for someone who is supposedly very booksmart, he sure doesn't use any of it in battle.

[Doctor.]

Depends. He's portrayed as a smart fighter in the series, so in-universe, he's supposed to be one and we're supposed to believe that he is one. But I think most of his decisions are dumb, but that applies to 100% of the cast as well.

Nah, he's only said to be a smart fighter but his actions are that of a brute. The English Dub didn't help much either (for example: Piccolo calling Vegeta smart in the cell saga, when we all know Vegeta's stupidity was at peak at that point). I have to disagree, most of the universe 7 team have been portrayed to be on some degree smart and tactical in this tournament other than Vegeta (who has even regressed as character)

He's called smart by Piccolo in the manga as well.

[Hyena_Yamcha]

he's portrayed as one but i don't see it .

[Khandom101]

Depends. He's portrayed as a smart fighter in the series, so in-universe, he's supposed to be one and we're supposed to believe that he is one. But I think most of his decisions are dumb, but that applies to 100% of the cast as well.

Nah, he's only said to be a smart fighter but his actions are that of a brute. The English Dub didn't help much either (for example: Piccolo calling Vegeta smart in the cell saga, when we all know Vegeta's stupidity was at peak at that point). I have to disagree, most of the universe 7 team have been portrayed to be on some degree smart and tactical in this tournament other than Vegeta (who has even regressed as character)

He's called smart by Piccolo in the manga as well.

Still my point stands, he wasn't even portrayed to be smart to even be called as such. As the saying goes " In life is not words that define a person but the actions they make that defines them" others may call Vegeta smart but his actions speak otherwise.

[TBMx]

I don't consider him smart in general. I think he's average at best.

Both Yugioh and Dragonball consider these respective characters geniuses. To compare;

Seto Kaiba - Merges magic and technology in an unprecedented way to travel to the afterlife and duel The Pharoah.

Vegeta - Angrily complains that he'll never have the chance to prove himself against the newly deceased Goku, that he will never fight again. This before Goku said he did not want to be wished back, and despite the presence of dragonballs that can take him to Goku once a year.

[Lionel]

He has his moments of ingenuity but they're nothing that other characters haven't equated through meritorious actions of their own. Vegeta has had the benefit of being outfitted with advantages like Saiyan zenkais and transformations that's enabled him to continue posing a big enough challenge that his abilities still have weight through which he can devise new styles of execution. In general I don't see anything about his combat methodology or mindset that connotes to a generally cunning attitude. To be fair, I don't see much distinctive variety in the fighting abilities in general. Hit has one of the most unique styles of combat in the series and if Toei knew how to execute it correctly then he would be the closest example of someone overcoming power through skill. Sadly, the concussive scrapper theatrics is so entrenched in the series that you're not likely going to find much innovation with the mechanics of the fighting system.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Only when he chooses to be, which is not often.

[Torturephile]

The man never quite struck me as a genius like many say he is outside of a few instances like mentioned before in this thread, plus I'll add in that he threw dirt at Zaabon in the eyes to blind him during their second encounter, but nothing else. The way Vegeta performs in some fights leads me to believe that his performance is dictated by feelings (and crowded mind like Whis said), as seen once he loses the advantage, he tends to tense up and get enraged. An example of this is when Cell became perfect, Vegeta still had his usual cocky smirk until he launched a barrage of punches at Cell, in which the latter blocked effortlessly. You can see him progressively get more desperate until his eventual defeat. Same thing with Freeza, 18, Cell again, Buu, Black, etc. I remember even at one point, Goku referred to desperately spamming ki blasts at someone as "Vegeta's technique." Some of his genius moments I could see Goku or even Piccolo coming up with as well.

To me, Black came off as smarter or more resourceful despite his shorter run in the series. Even Bardock showed some brains once he outmanuvered Dodoria's squad despite outnumbered.

Edit: I forgot that despite learning about what Goku did to get stronger and master his super saiyan form in the time room for the Cell tournament, and training twice the amount Goku did, he and Future Trunks still came out weaker than Goku and Gohan.

[SupremeKai25]

To me, Black came off as smarter or more resourceful despite his shorter run in the series.

Without a doubt. Black always outsmarted the predictable and brute Vegeta. During their first engagement, Black feigned to have been critically hit by Vegeta twice, giving him the illusion to be gaining the advantage. Then, when Vegeta least expected it, Black stabbed him. During their second engagement, again we can see Black's tactical genius, who let the immortal Future Zamasu deal with an exhausted Vegeta (who had previously been beaten up by Black), while he himself dealt with F. Trunks. And, of course, we can't forget about the intelligence and cunning Black showed during their third and last engagement. The insolent Vegeta thought he had defeated Black after his short display of rage, too bad Black finally realized that becoming stronger through anger, albeit a primitive method, was an effective way. So he overcame that difficulty and ultimately expanded his powers beyond his comprehension. Black definitely showed much more intellect and resourcefulness than Vegeta. In fact, Vegeta never defeated Black in the end. He was always outsmarted by Black. This goes back to the fact Vegeta's mindset was dictated by his arrogance and pride, and Black easily exploited this to deceive him every single time they fought.

Funnily enough, there are some who consider Vegeta a tactical genius, but that is not how he was portrayed in the last arc of the anime Super. He himself admits that they didn't go to the Future timeline without any plan or strategy whatsoever. But, well, he was portrayed smarter than Goku in that particular arc, that's for sure.

[Hawk9211]

He can be smart when he’s not following his feelings but he’s stills not the worst brute that title goes to gohan.Gohan’s best tactical fight is the one in which they revealed that he’s a strategic fighter.After that,he just overpowered obuni,dealt with botamo in worse way than the other saiyans and in 119 everyone’s skill was even lower than og db.