DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

[MR.Mark]

You don't need a budget for well choreographed fights.

When it involves moments of two super powered beings flying around, shooting ki blasts, flying into mountains, while an alien world crumbles around them, Yes. you do.

Saying fighting is not just as important to the characters of Dragon Ball is like saying gore isn't important to the Resident evil games.

Balance is key, especially in genres like this. Good faithful to Toriyama's scripts (even a script improving on some of his weaker writing) and great action is best.

If you can't blow people away with the feats these characters do (feats that drive the story mind you) then you failed.

You act as if I'm saying make the story shit but with good effects. You do realize I'd also expect a faithful script to actually have a little more depth than what Toriyama provides. I would expect alittle more polish in the live action medium in the story telling department. Toriyama's story as written is far from untouchable and perfect.

[ABED]

Saying fighting is not just as important to the characters of Dragon Ball is like saying gore isn't important to the Resident evil games.

I didn't say that. And you can't use video games as a parallel to a story. Playing a game isn't about the story, it's about the interactive experience.

If you can't blow people away with the feats these characters do (feats that drive the story mind you) then you failed.

Problem is that people have seen so much of this sort of stuff that they are basically numb to it. Large scale fights destruction doesn't work anymore. It won't get people into the theater.

faithful script to actually have a little more depth than what Toriyama provides

But it's not the depth that's the issue. It's the feel of the story. There are plenty of great writers that are better than Toriyama that could craft a more cohesive story, but there's a magic and feel to his work that attracts the audience.

[MR.Mark]

much of this sort of stuff that they are basically numb to it. Large scale fights destruction doesn't work anymore. It won't get people into the theater.

You speak for all audiences now? There are tons of successful franchises from Marvel and various others of varying quality that says quite the opposite.

I don't recall to many live action stuff out there with the level of ki attacks mixed with martial arts we see in DB.

Weak argument.

Playing a game isn't about the story, it's about the interactive experience.
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How many games have you played lately? The last of Us says hi.

There are many video games out there with story's rivaling Hollywood.

plenty of great writers that are better than Toriyama that could craft a more cohesive story, but there's a magic and feel to his work that attracts the audience.

The fighting is part of that magic that will get them into the seats. Faithfully adapting Toriyama's epic fights is half the battle, the characters will fall into place if they balance it right.

[ABED]

much of this sort of stuff that they are basically numb to it. Large scale fights destruction doesn't work anymore. It won't get people into the theater.

You speak for all audiences now? There are tons of successful franchises from Marvel and various others of varying quality that says quite the opposite.

I don't recall to many live action stuff out there with the level of ki attacks mixed with martial arts we see in DB.

Weak argument.

No, it's a trend I've noticed. Independence Day had a fairly weak story, but it's big draw was Will Smith and the large scale destruction which was novel in the mid 90s. Now, it's all over the place and the box office take for these sorts of movies show that people don't care about large scale destruction anymore. The sequel did no business because by the time they got around to it, everyone had taken from the original's play book.

The MCU has fantastic characters and humor and stories. In fact, the large scale destruction coming down from the sky became a pattern for them so much so that they felt they had to comment on that within the story of Civil War.

The apathy of the audience to BvS and JL show that audience want something more than empty visuals and large scale destruction set pieces.

[MR.Mark]

Again, DB has humor and silly character moments that will balance that action.

I'm not surprised if audiences weren't to keen on the pretentious depressing dreck of BvS. Justice league was tossed around directors and writers so not valid a comparison.

If people can get behind Guardians of the Galaxy, I see no reason why they can't with DB. Balance heart with amazing action and Toriyama's magic will shine through.

[Ringworm128]

With Goku and Vegeta's hair I wouldn't try and replicate the anime, instead I would make sure they had that messy bed head look.

For villains like Cell and Freeza I would have them done using heavy makeup and prosthetics, only using CGI when needed. It would end up ageing a million times better in the long run.

[ABED]

Yes, because Guardians has a feel and a magic to it. The story is okay, but the emotion and the characters and the feel of that world is what makes it work and what makes DB work. For DB to work in live action, you need some writer who gets that. A writer like William Goldman could probably write a more coherent DB story than Toriyama, but it won't have the feel of DB that makes it what it is.

Balance heart with amazing action and Toriyama's magic will shine through.

Except that Toriyama's magic comes from Toriyama.

I'm not surprised if audiences weren't to keen on the pretentious depressing dreck of BvS. Justice league was tossed around directors and writers so not valid a comparison.

It's a perfectly valid comparison. The audience wasn't keen on either because the stories were terrible. It's not like Snyder has ever shown himself to be a good storyteller. JL was always going to have issues because he's not good with story. The tone wasn't the fundamental issues with his movies, it was the lack of coherent story and interesting characters. The movies are unfocused and boring and often long. The visuals were empty.

[MR.Mark]

Except that Toriyama's magic comes from Toriyama.

And you can take that magic the same way the original anime took it, and Super too.
The material is there from the manga for filmmakers to faithfully adapt, it can be done.

[ABED]

Except that Toriyama's magic comes from Toriyama.

And you can take that magic the same way the original anime took it, and Super too.

The material is there for filmmakers to faithfully adapt, it can be done.

The anime just used his visuals. It was the manga plus filler, so it's not a surprise there. Can it be done? Yes. Will it? VERY VERY VERY UNLIKELY.

[MR.Mark]

Can it be done? Yes.

That's all that matters in the end.

Filler aside,Toriyama didn't wave a magic wand and give talent to animators, voice actors, and music composers ether. So don't downplay other factors in the creative process.

Talented people can be found for film adaption too, easily.

With Goku and Vegeta's hair I wouldn't try and replicate the anime, instead I would make sure they had that messy bed head look.

For villains like Cell and Freeza I would have them done using heavy makeup and prosthetics, only using CGI when needed. It would end up ageing a million times better in the long run.

I think the hair can be done to a certain extent, but it's not a deal breaker if it's toned down either.

I'd have characters like Freeza and Cell be guys with prosthetic/animatronic, only switching to full CGI when they need to fight.

I'd use puppets whereever possible, like Babidi, or the sea Turtle etc.

[ABED]

Nearly ANYTHING can be done, but this thread is meaningless. It proves nothing.

Filler aside,Toriyama didn't wave a magic wand and give talent to animators, voice actors, and music composers ether. So don't downplay other factors in the creative process.

Talented people can be found for film adaption too, easily.

Yes, it took great talent to fill in the blanks between the panels, but my point is that the magic of the TV series came down to them simply taking what was already there. The series was at its strongest when it stuck to Toriyama's story. The issue with a film adaptation is a matter of time. In a TV show, they could fit all of his manga in. In an adaptation, they have 90 minutes to 2 hours to do it. They have to be far more selective. Deciding what to keep and what to discard makes a huge difference. It's not nearly as easy as a TV adaptation.

[MR.Mark]

Nearly ANYTHING can be done, but this thread is meaningless. It proves nothing.

Yet here you are, still fighting for the last word and trying to prove how right you are, funny ain't it, participating so much in such a meaningless topic?

Yeah, the anime adaption aint perfect, infact for the most part I prefer Kai, but the point still stands that both DB/Z and Kai had enough of that Toriyama magic to make fans across the world, including you and me.

The issue with a film adaptation is a matter of time.

Careful planning and balance is needed to make it work. That includes realistically expecting it not to be a panel to panel translation, but take what's needed from the manga and go from there. There's redundancy at times in the story that could easily be condensed.

Discussing that is the fun of this topic.

Though if you don't find it fun you don't have to stay.

[ABED]

Nearly ANYTHING can be done, but this thread is meaningless. It proves nothing.

Yet here you are, still fighting for the last word and trying to prove how right you are, funny ain't it, participating so much in such a meaningless topic?

Yeah, the anime adaption aint perfect, infact for the most part I prefer Kai, but the point still stands that both DB/Z and Kai had enough of that Toriyama magic to make fans across the world, including you and me.

The same can be done with a film version, but careful planning and balance is needed to make it work.

Discussing that is the fun of this topic.

Though if you don't find it fun you don't have to stay.

You are trying to prove how right you are. That's a silly point to make. Everyone believes they are right.

Kai was just Z stripped of the parts that weren't Toriyama. Of course Z had enough Toriyama magic to work because they never radically diverted from his story or his visuals. When Toei is left to their own devices they have a hard time keeping in line with Toriyama's vision. Toei worked with the man himself and yet he has criticized the adaptation as making Goku more classically heroic than he intended. If they can't get it right, someone else getting it right in a live action film adaptation is a VERY tall order. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery than seeing a competent live action adaptation.

I do find this interesting, but it would be more fun if you weren't making this personal and creating strawman arguments.

[MR.Mark]

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Kai was just Z stripped of the parts that weren't Toriyama. Of course Z had enough Toriyama magic to work because they never radically diverted from his story or his visuals..

GT?

Strawman yep that's me, there's no more valid opinion than saying Toriyama is DragonBall and undermine all the talented people that help bring the anime to life, me and my weak arguments.

The talent is out there, the only limit is your own imagination. I've proved it can work many times.

[ABED]

GT?

No, DB and DBZ. I covered GT in another part of my post, but thanks for reading.

Strawman yep that's me, there's no more valid opinion than saying Toriyama is DragonBall and undermine all the talented people that help bring the anime to life, me and my weak arguments.

Yet another stramwan. I didn't put them down, at all.

I've proved it can work many times.

You haven't proven anything. You've merely asserted. Yes, hypothetically, with the right talent that understand Toriyama's spark and can work the story and keep what makes DB what it is and has the resource, DB could conceivably work in a live action film, but what "works" means is vague. It might also be successful at the US and world wide box office. We can imagine that scenario all day. These pictures don't prove anything though other than there are some talented and imaginative graphic artists out there.

[MR.Mark]

but thanks for reading.

Now who's being personal?

I didn't put them down, at all.

Downplaying there importance is just as bad.

Funny that you can enjoy a series not written by Toriyama (and even defend it against a series he's actually behind that you haven't watched) but claim a film studio sticking closely to his manga would not have the "magic" when adapting his material?

I'm the straw-man?

[ABED]

I'm the straw-man?

What? Do you know what a strawman argument is? I'm not being condescending. It's simply that from the looks of this statement, you don't know what it is.

It's much easier for a TV to adapt a long serialized story like DB than it is for a film to do so, almost by virtue of just having the time to do so.

[MR.Mark]

Round in circles with your repetitive arguments and you strawman nonsense, while simultaneously picking and choosing what point to argue and ignoring my valid pints about GT, classic ABED.

It's much easier for a TV to adapt a long serialized story like DB than it is for a film to do so, almost by virtue of just having the time to do so.

If you are going by the creatively stagnant rule that the films must be a panel by panel remake, then yes.

However, they don't need to be for the films to work. If anything not being a direct manga adaption has potential to improve the presentation of the story.

There are writing flaws, inconsistencies, and repetitive moments that could be improved in the process of film adaption. All without losing the important aspects of Toriyama and his style.

[ABED]

It's not about improving the presentation. Whether it's an improvement is largely a matter of opinion, but it's a lot easier to keep Toriyama's work if you don't have to make many changes. A film by virtue of being shorter necessitates change. Change is fine, but keeping the essence of what has made DB a success all over the globe is hard to do when you have to make changes.

All without losing the important aspects of Toriyama and his style.

Every writer is different and given that style is a largely ineffable quality, it's not nearly as easy as you believe. If all it took was a good writer taking Toriyama's work and making it more cogent, MANY writers could do that. That's a far easier task than adapting a long serialized story into a medium that is shorter and keeping that feel that made it successful. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

What points about GT are you referring to?

Funny that you can enjoy a series not written by Toriyama (and even defend it against a series he's actually behind that you haven't watched) but claim a film studio sticking closely to his manga would not have the "magic" when adapting his material?

I like GT. It's not great by any stretch, but it's short and the ending gives me the "feeling". I am done more or less with DB. Super is a continuation of the series that's already really long and there's little they can possibly do that will be that surprising seeing as how we know that he's not going to die if they stick to the time between Buu and the EoZ. We know he's still alive and well. Toriyama's involvement in Super isn't nearly as extensive as you claim. I don't like the look of the show and I didn't like RoF. I've heard Super isn't good from people I trust and whose taste is similar to mine. And frankly, there is so much good TV out there that after 500 episodes and chapters of DB, I am more than fine not watching the series continue. And finally sticking closely to the manga is really hard because of its sheer length. Stuff will be lost and even much of the charm from the story comes from Toriyama's visuals. It's a VERY tall task.

[MR.Mark]

Splitting hairs again, look at the topic of the thread.

Finding the talent out there to do live action isn't the hard part. I never said the execution would be easy. It would require a lot of careful planning.

DB is a pretty liner story of power growth, if you stick to that most changes would come down to fanboy nostalgia nitpicking anyway.

If a Super manga and Anime can coexist with the same story but not getting from point a to point b 100% the same. The same can be done from Original manga to film adaption.

Since you agree it's possible anyway, this is pretty redundant. I wish the topic can get back to character designs/possible story changes/ effects and other fun stuff can be debated.

Rather than this pointless negativity that's not even on topic.