Elvis143BRA wrote:Jiren should be head and shoulders above UI Goku. If he isn't, then it would be a cheap way of destroying his character.
Isn't the whole point of Ultra Instinct that even those on the level of Hakaishin struggle to learn this power, and thus anyone who masters it could even contend with fighters on that level?
Sure, Jiren's pure power is very likely higher than Goku's Ultra Instinct power, but the whole point is that the true strength of this ability negates that kind of advantage.
Bullza wrote:How would Super Saiyan Blue Vegito and Merged Zamasu compare with Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Kefla?
Anime Merged Zamasu or Manga Merged Zamasu? Manga Merged Zamasu is 100% immortal, so there is no way UI Goku and SSJ 2 Kefla will ever be able to kill him.
But overall, i'm afraid Fused Zamasu is just weaker than UI Goku, since SSB Kaioken Goku was able to break his Barrier of Light and knock him unconcious (although you could argue that Zamasu was caught off-guard), and UI Goku is obviously stronger than SSB Kaioken (not x20) Goku. So i think UI Goku would win against Merged Zamasu (even in his Corrupted form). Infinite Zamasu (which is the final incorporeal stage of Fused Zamasu), that's a whole other story though.
At his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with Toyotaro
SupremeKai25 wrote:Anime Merged Zamasu or Manga Merged Zamasu? Manga Merged Zamasu is 100% immortal, so there is no way UI Goku and SSJ 2 Kefla will ever be able to kill him.
But overall, i'm afraid Fused Zamasu is just weaker than UI Goku, since SSB Kaioken Goku was able to break his Barrier of Light and knock him unconcious (although you could argue that Zamasu was caught off-guard), and UI Goku is obviously stronger than SSB Kaioken (not x20) Goku. So i think UI Goku would win against Merged Zamasu (even in his Corrupted form). Infinite Zamasu (which is the final incorporeal stage of Fused Zamasu), that's a whole other story though.
The Anime Merged Zamasu with the Half Corrupted form, not the weaker Halo version.
If Super Saiyan Kale was weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku then surely Super Saiyan Kefla would be weaker than a hypothetical Super Saiyan God Vegito.
Perhaps Super Saiyan 2 Kefla would be around Super Saiyan God Vegito or below. Ultra Instinct Goku probably also around this general level so I wouldn't say he was as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Vegito.
Merged Zamasu wasn't really that far off from Vegito though so I could see him being stronger than the others.
The_Destroyer wrote:
Toppo wasn't going all out in the exhibition match. They were powering up at the end, and that's what Goku was probably talking about.
Vegeta didn't seem to have much of a problem dealing with Toppo, though.
But who says Toppo was going all out when fightibg Vegeta?
By the same metric, we can also assume Vegeta wasn't going all out.
Aniraza was dominating everyone from Universe 7 from the get-go. It took a collective beam attack from SSJB Goku and Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan and Golden Freeza, with #17 critically damaging him during the beam struggle, to take him down.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
So many indicators that support 17 being SSB-tier. Oh and to those who kept going on and on and on and on about 17 looking to be on par with Base Goku, this all completely disapproved that.
17 fighting alongside SSB's and Golden Frieza. So beautiful.
SSJB Vegeta looks like he's going to be able to put up a fight against Jiren (somehow) with Goku's help.
Zamasu55 wrote:Good luck with next episode, guys.
I'm gonna laugh so hard.
There's no episode next week.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Called it. Knew Vegeta would pressure Jiren in some form. People ridiculed me for it and called me delusional, but you don't bring in your best art/animators and give the spotlight to Vegeta in the form of an episode title and have him get utterly stomped. It makes absolutely no sense.
SSJB Vegeta looks like he's going to be able to put up a fight against Jiren (somehow) with Goku's help.
There's no episode next week.
Unless Jiren is out of stamina I don't see how Vegeta's able to land a punch?
SSB Goku landed punches on Jiren as well
Correction. SSB Goku landed punches that were all easily blocked/dodged. He never actually landed a solid attack on Jiren like Vegeta did in that preview.
