Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TBMx]

What's strange with Vegeta is that we all just assume that he and Goku are equal.

But in the Future Trunks saga, SSJR Black beat the tar out of SSJB Goku who then went off and learned the mafuba. Meanwhile Vegeta trained in the Rosat and came out and put a stomping on SSJR Black.

So for a brief period we were all saying that Vegeta was much stronger than Goku.

Then in no time at all and for reasons we either just ignored or couldn't explain we just went back to saying that they were equal but really Vegeta should have been a lot stronger at least then he was, I dunno about now.

They went back to saying Hit > Goku SSB = Frieza> Vegeta SSB actually.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I've long since stopped caring about the power scaling in this series but they still manage to find ways to surprise me.

[TheSaiyanGod]

What's strange with Vegeta is that we all just assume that he and Goku are equal.

But in the Future Trunks saga, SSJR Black beat the tar out of SSJB Goku who then went off and learned the mafuba. Meanwhile Vegeta trained in the Rosat and came out and put a stomping on SSJR Black.

So for a brief period we were all saying that Vegeta was much stronger than Goku.

Then in no time at all and for reasons we either just ignored or couldn't explain we just went back to saying that they were equal but really Vegeta should have been a lot stronger at least then he was, I dunno about now.

They went back to saying Hit > Goku SSB = Frieza> Vegeta SSB actually.

No, Vegeta's power was simply not measured in the magazine Animedia. It was only said that Goku was the strongest and that Freeza was on the same level as him

That does not prove that Goku SSB> Vegeta SSB. The series never meant that and does not even make sense (considering that Vegeta finished the MT saga stronger than SSB Goku and continued training)

[dragon boss z]

SSJB Vegeta is cleary stronger than KKx20 + SSJB Goku, I don't see the issue with it.

Uh how is that clear? The preview seems to show regular SSB Goku blocking Jiren's punches with a smile on his face.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

If Goku is the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him. And since frieza is equal to the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him either. There isn't any counterargument.

It really doesn't matter what people interpret the intention of the show as in this case. Toei literally told you. Goku is the strongest. Frieza is his stated equal, hence vegeta is stronger than neither.

The only point in the series where vegeta was demonstrably stronger was when he fought Black. He wasn't stronger during the merged zamasu fight as Goku broke his limits during the beam struggle.

And they were demonstrably equals once again as soon as the baseball match after the fight with zamasu since Goku was pushing back what vegeta stated to be his full power.

[TheSaiyanGod]

If Goku is the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him. And since frieza is equal to the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him either. There isn't any counterargument.

It really doesn't matter what people interpret the intention of the show as in this case. Toei literally told you. Goku is the strongest. Frieza is his stated equal, hence vegeta is stronger than neither.

The only point in the series where vegeta was demonstrably stronger was when he fought Black. He wasn't stronger during the merged zamasu fight as Goku broke his limits during the beam struggle.

And they were demonstrably equals once again as soon as the baseball match after the fight with zamasu since Goku was pushing back what vegeta stated to be his full power.

So, Freeza = Goku SSB Kaioken? Even with the anime having clearly shown that Freeza is only Blue level?

When it was said that Goku is the strongest, he is referring to the Kaioken. And when it was said that Frieza is on the same level as him, it is said about the Blue. Anything besides contradicts the anime itself.

And seriously you want to consider that episode of Baseball to try to argue that Goku SSB = Vegeta SSB? This is totally meaningless, it was a comic episode

SSJB Vegeta is cleary stronger than KKx20 + SSJB Goku, I don't see the issue with it.

Uh how is that clear? The preview seems to show regular SSB Goku blocking Jiren's punches with a smile on his face.

Jiren also is not demonstrating any effort, unlike the fight against Vegeta.

While Vegeta faces Jiren, Goku SSB is also shown kneeling watching the battle

[Supersaiyanbulla]

If Goku is the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him. And since frieza is equal to the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him either. There isn't any counterargument.

It really doesn't matter what people interpret the intention of the show as in this case. Toei literally told you. Goku is the strongest. Frieza is his stated equal, hence vegeta is stronger than neither.

The only point in the series where vegeta was demonstrably stronger was when he fought Black. He wasn't stronger during the merged zamasu fight as Goku broke his limits during the beam struggle.

And they were demonstrably equals once again as soon as the baseball match after the fight with zamasu since Goku was pushing back what vegeta stated to be his full power.

Dude it’s obvious Vegeta stronger than Kaioken times 20 don’t know why everyone in denial like Jesus Christ.

[Supersaiyanbulla]

If Goku is the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him. And since frieza is equal to the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him either. There isn't any counterargument.

It really doesn't matter what people interpret the intention of the show as in this case. Toei literally told you. Goku is the strongest. Frieza is his stated equal, hence vegeta is stronger than neither.

The only point in the series where vegeta was demonstrably stronger was when he fought Black. He wasn't stronger during the merged zamasu fight as Goku broke his limits during the beam struggle.

And they were demonstrably equals once again as soon as the baseball match after the fight with zamasu since Goku was pushing back what vegeta stated to be his full power.

So, Freeza = Goku SSB Kaioken? Even with the anime having clearly shown that Freeza is only Blue level?

When it was said that Goku is the strongest, he is referring to the Kaioken. And when it was said that Frieza is on the same level as him, it is said about the Blue. Anything besides contradicts the anime itself.

And seriously you want to consider that episode of Baseball to try to argue that Goku SSB = Vegeta SSB? This is totally meaningless, it was a comic episode

SSJB Vegeta is cleary stronger than KKx20 + SSJB Goku, I don't see the issue with it.

Uh how is that clear? The preview seems to show regular SSB Goku blocking Jiren's punches with a smile on his face.

Jiren also is not demonstrating any effort, unlike the fight against Vegeta.

While Vegeta faces Jiren, Goku SSB is also shown kneeling watching the battle

Ssb Kaioken goku kick to jiren didn’t do anything

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

No, goku and Frieza are stated to be equals in the show by Whis and this is shown when they knocked each other out.

Frieza is stated to be equal to Goku in the show whom toei states is the strongest in U7. Very simple. I don't know what kaioken has to do with it but the show and toeis pamphlet paint a simple narrative.

The Goku that Frieza was stated to be equal to and shown to be on the same level as is stated by the creators of the show to be the strongest in U7. No amount of reaching will change that.

And the baseball match counts just like every other part of super. Goku pushed back vegetas full power and he wasn't weaker against merged zamasu. There's zero reason to believe that vegeta is magnitudes stronger. The status quo in the story is that they're equals in the same form and it's likely going to stay that way.

[Almighty Majin]

I think in the next episode Vegeta is going to be combining SSJB with the rage boost power he used against Beerus back in BoG. That's how he will be able to fight Jiren like how he was shown doing.

[JazzMazz]

I think in the next episode Vegeta is going to be combining SSJB with the rage boost power he used against Beerus back in BoG. That's how he will be able to fight Jiren like how he was shown doing.

TBH, I just think he'll being doing a Goku by exerting more power than he should be capable of doing by pushing himself beyond his limits.

[TheSaiyanGod]

No, goku and Frieza are stated to be equals in the show by Whis and this is shown when they knocked each other out.

Frieza is stated to be equal to Goku in the show whom toei states is the strongest in U7. Very simple. I don't know what kaioken has to do with it but the show and toeis pamphlet paint a simple narrative.

The Goku that Frieza was stated to be equal to and shown to be on the same level as is stated by the creators of the show to be the strongest in U7. No amount of reaching will change that.

And the baseball match counts just like every other part of super. Goku pushed back vegetas full power and he wasn't weaker against merged zamasu. There's zero reason to believe that vegeta is magnitudes stronger. The status quo in the story is that they're equals in the same form and it's likely going to stay that way.

Goku and Freeza are declared equal in the show, yes.
But, we have clearly seen that this refers to Goku SSB and Golden Freeza. Kaioken is not included here (otherwise, Freeza would have beaten Goku SSB on EP 96).

The same goes for the declaration in Animedia. It is said that Goku is the strongest, so this obviously refers to the Kaioken (since that leaves him above Freeza and Vegeta). Because only with Blue, Freeza is on the same level as him (does not mean that Freeza is the stronger next to Goku).

And as I said Vegeta was not even included, his power was not measured

I think in the next episode Vegeta is going to be combining SSJB with the rage boost power he used against Beerus back in BoG. That's how he will be able to fight Jiren like how he was shown doing.

I believe only a rage boost would be disappointing. Vegeta needs to show something new, something that surpasses Blue to be able to face Jiren

[Issei189]

Aniraza is probably SSB KK x 5 or 10 Goku level and It seems like Vegeta may be stronger SSB KK Goku going by the preview

[dragon boss z]

If Goku is the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him. And since frieza is equal to the strongest then vegeta isn't stronger than him either. There isn't any counterargument.

It really doesn't matter what people interpret the intention of the show as in this case. Toei literally told you. Goku is the strongest. Frieza is his stated equal, hence vegeta is stronger than neither.

The only point in the series where vegeta was demonstrably stronger was when he fought Black. He wasn't stronger during the merged zamasu fight as Goku broke his limits during the beam struggle.

And they were demonstrably equals once again as soon as the baseball match after the fight with zamasu since Goku was pushing back what vegeta stated to be his full power.

Dude it’s obvious Vegeta stronger than Kaioken times 20 don’t know why everyone in denial like Jesus Christ.

The only thing obvious here is you are a fan of Vegeta and are bias towards him.
Wait for the episode to actually come out before saying something is obvious or not.

[TheDipDap1234]

Now that 18 got eliminated, do you guys think she has gotten stronger since the Cell arc? If so, by how much? How strong do you guys think she currently is?

[ekrolo2]

I expect some master class bullshit concerning Vegeta next episode. He's been so spectacularly out classed by Goku's basic KK Blue combo alone that him not getting one shotted out of the arena after a glare from Jiren should make for some real excellent writing when next we see Super.

And no, don't tell me "watch the episode!" cause I've got a 100+ episodes of Super that set a precedent or twenty thousand for how nonsense powers are.

[Sora Saiyan]

The anime should’ve scrapped KKB ages ago, the scale has just became a mess since.
Now Vegeta is doing an amazing job and actually beating on Jiren, when a 20x KKB Goku’s kick bounced off Jirens head and did nothing, and all Gokus other attacks in that fight were blocked like a child was throwing them.
It’s looking like Vegeta has actually surpassed that level... this would make sense in the manga seeing as they’re about equal, but in the anime it definitely seems that Vegeta has had a boost that exceeds 20x Blue, maybe even exceeding UI in raw power... has anybody even made Jiren pull a face when they’ve hit him yet? Let alone do what Vegeta has done in the preview.

I mean a while ago, people were thinking that Goku had increased his base level because of a statement by Caulifla wondering if what Goku was using was against her was the same SSJ2, but this showing by Vegeta throws a gigantic spanner in that. Well, unless he just receives some super crazy boost.

[Ki Breaker]

Internet is already all over saying Goku couldn't land meaningful hits on Jiren with UI and Vegeta is making jiren sweat and landing hits with just blue..
Never mind the fact Jiren did have an actual fight with Goku in blue...
SSBKK was a real bad move and it's come to bite them in the ass time and again..

[Bullza]

Well it's odd but time and time again we wonder how it will make sense based on the preview and then the episode itself either turns out differently or its just explained.

Goku pulled off a Kamehameha that was more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks' Galick Gun. Perhaps Vegeta will do some equivalent of that.

[ekrolo2]

Well it's odd but time and time again we wonder how it will make sense based on the preview and then the episode itself either turns out differently or its just explained.

Goku pulled off a Kamehameha that was more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks' Galick Gun. Perhaps Vegeta will do some equivalent of that.

Yeah, that stupid event from the Black arc where Goku just wills a Kamehameha into being more powerful then Trunks + Vegeta, a Vegeta who's by default more powerful then him at this stage in the game. Without Kaio-Ken.

Yeah, the idiocy of the past doesn't excuse the incoming idiocy.