"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheOne]

Jiren is strugging against SsjB Vegeta. Some episodes ago, he took out a 20x stronger version with a glare.

Nice one, Toei.

And I know it's a preview, but you can clearly see Jiren's struggle, so that's it, they're fucking this up.

You mean like how he struggled against Hit because Hit put a punch in his chest?

Toei messed up when they made SSBKK. The manga has Vegeta and Goku very close in power but the anime made the gap even larger. Now they’re paying for it by making the power scaling atrocious. I don’t think Goku was ever supposed to be THAT much stronger than Vegeta.

Also, I hope this preview wasn’t the tipping point for you concerning power scaling in Super. If it is, I think you’ve turned a blind eye to majority of these episodes lol. As a Veget fan, I’m pumped to see what happens. Hoping we get to see UI Vegeta and Goku fighting Jiren.

[TheOne]

The Future Trunks Saga was months and Goku even has a better feat in that saga. Not to mention, no one called Vegeta superior to Goku even with just Blue.

Just because Goku has better feats doesn't mean he was stronger using Blue at the time, espicially considering Goku is pretty much famous for exerting power and doing things far beyond his own physical limitations.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I would LOVE if there was some sort of creative gimmick, but I just get the vibe that they're gonna give Vegeta one last fan pandering session while ignoring power scaling, before his elimination at the end of 122 or 123. Which, I guess, I don't really mind, as long as Jiren never shows any signs of actual damage. That's the key. I'd be fine if the excuse was "Jiren was holding back" just for the fuck of it, considering there's massive precedence for that. Every single villain in DBZ pretty much had that moment where they didn't try for absolutely no reason just for the sake of giving us a cool fight that otherwise shouldn't logically have happened. And we all just kinda roll it nowadays. Perfect Cell vs. Roid Trunks comes to mind. That fight was badass, but it pretty much meant nothing and was just a waste of time, and only served as an excuse to make Trunks look cool for half a second. I guess I could live with that here, especially considering how gorgeous it looks.

Judging by the NEP, I'm guessing that Vegeta is going to try and pull a Goku and put up a fight by improving during the fight and exerting power beyond his physical limitations.

Keyword "try". I don't really see anything coming of that, simply because Goku and Gohan have always been the ones that "go beyond their limitations" in the MIDDLE of fights. That's sorta their shtick. Vegeta's shtick has always been the guy who goes away to train off screen and then comes back crazy strong, he never really does it DURING the fight. So my gut tells me they'll continue that trait now.

Keep in mind this is what I THINK will happen, not what I WANT to happen.

This could be a prime time for them to break that silly cycle. They seem to be doing more thinking out the box now and not following their traditions.

[HeroR]

Toei messed up when they made SSBKK. The manga has Vegeta and Goku very close in power but the anime made the gap even larger. Now they’re paying for it by making the power scaling atrocious. I don’t think Goku was ever supposed to be THAT much stronger than Vegeta.

Also, I hope this preview wasn’t the tipping point for you concerning power scaling in Super. If it is, I think you’ve turned a blind eye to majority of these episodes lol. As a Veget fan, I’m pumped to see what happens. Hoping we get to see UI Vegeta and Goku fighting Jiren.

They really didn't since even Blue Goku landed a hit on Jiren on 109 and we don't even know the context of Vegeta hitting him. I also don't see Goku and Vegeta not being equals as a bad thing, unlike most of this forum.

I think hoping for UI Vegeta is a pipe dream, but stranger things have happened.

[ToshioWrites]

Just because Goku has better feats doesn't mean he was stronger using Blue at the time, espicially considering Goku is pretty much famous for exerting power and doing things far beyond his own physical limitations.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I would LOVE if there was some sort of creative gimmick, but I just get the vibe that they're gonna give Vegeta one last fan pandering session while ignoring power scaling, before his elimination at the end of 122 or 123. Which, I guess, I don't really mind, as long as Jiren never shows any signs of actual damage. That's the key. I'd be fine if the excuse was "Jiren was holding back" just for the fuck of it, considering there's massive precedence for that. Every single villain in DBZ pretty much had that moment where they didn't try for absolutely no reason just for the sake of giving us a cool fight that otherwise shouldn't logically have happened. And we all just kinda roll it nowadays. Perfect Cell vs. Roid Trunks comes to mind. That fight was badass, but it pretty much meant nothing and was just a waste of time, and only served as an excuse to make Trunks look cool for half a second. I guess I could live with that here, especially considering how gorgeous it looks.

Judging by the NEP, I'm guessing that Vegeta is going to try and pull a Goku and put up a fight by improving during the fight and exerting power beyond his physical limitations.

Yet, you can't explain why Trunks and Vegeta together couldn't hurt Merged Zamasu but Goku could. It wasn't like they weren't given their all too.

I have the exact answer. Goku is the PROTAGONIST. The PROTAGONIST of the show gets certain perks. Oh and since you want to debate "feats" , Would you say SS Rage Trunks in episode 62 > SSB Goku since he held off Zamasu and Goku Black by himself where Goku and Vegeta for that matter couldn't even take Black alone for any amount of time. That is a yes or no on the 2nd question

[Professor Freeza]

If goku had a "better feat " in the trunks arc then doesn't the NEP clearly show Vegeta with a much "better feat" than anything Goku did before Ultra Instinct? If i am not mistaken, Jiren hit Goku using kaioken x20 so fast he couldn't even see it coming and goku didn't even get within striking distance of him. Whereas Vegeta lands a solid gut kick to Jiren

Depends. Cause Goku literally sent a Jiren who braced for his punch flying into the air and through a mountain. Hit with one punch knocked him all the way back to the edge of the arena. As far as actually going in with close combat? Yeah, Vegeta is shown to be doing better than Hit and Goku. Hell, Goku is shown doing better here than he did in his first fight lol.

THIS. Just because Vegeta is shown to land a Kick doesnt mean anything. Even Pre UIO Goku made Jiren evade the Kamehameha.. [was surprised]

[HeroR]

I have the exact answer. Goku is the PROTAGONIST. The PROTAGONIST of the show gets certain perks. Oh and since you want to debate "feats" , Would you say SS Rage Trunks in episode 62 > SSB Goku since he held off Zamasu and Goku Black by himself where Goku and Vegeta for that matter couldn't even take Black alone for any amount of time. That is a yes or no on the 2nd question

And despite Goku being the protagonist he lost all his major fights in Super outside of Golden Freeza and even then got taken by a laser. And Goku's feat still surpasses Super Saiyan Rage Trunks since Merged Zamasu is stronger than Black and Future Zamasu as individuals, even with team attacks.

[precita]

2 hours later and still no episode review thread. I wonder if the staff forgot a new ep was airing today because of Christmas.

[ToshioWrites]

I have the exact answer. Goku is the PROTAGONIST. The PROTAGONIST of the show gets certain perks. Oh and since you want to debate "feats" , Would you say SS Rage Trunks in episode 62 > SSB Goku since he held off Zamasu and Goku Black by himself where Goku and Vegeta for that matter couldn't even take Black alone for any amount of time. That is a yes or no on the 2nd question

And despite Goku being the protagonist he lost all his major fights in Super outside of Golden Freeza and even then got taken by a laser. And Goku's feat still surpasses Super Saiyan Rage Trunks since Merged Zamasu is stronger than Black and Future Zamasu as individuals, even with team attacks.

Again I asked " after episode 62 was Rage Trunks > SSB Goku, Yes or NO?" I didn't ask you about episode 66.

[Artorias]

I think I just realized why this Vegeta keeping pace with Jiren thing bugs me as much as it does, assuming the reasoning they'll use is that Jiren is holding back.

It's because, in DBZ, whenever a villain was "holding back" to give the illusion of a good fight, they hadn't ever gone past that power threshold. Every time they were holding back, we as the audience could feasibly assume that this was their max power, because we had never seen anything greater than what they were showing off at that moment. It was feasible to assume as a kid watching Perfect Cell fight Trunks, that Trunks had actually found a way to match Cell, and that Cell was at full power and trying 100%. Only later is it revealed that he isn't trying.

The difference now, is that we've ALREADY SEEN Jiren BEAT THE SHIT out of GOKU SSB x20 KAIOKEN. He's already demonstrated his strength. So it doesn't work narratively to then have him "not try" against a far weaker opponent and take hits. We already KNOW he can go much higher than SSB Vegeta, so it's not as easy to let it roll off your back. It just comes off as filler nonsense padding, rather than typical shonen villain cockiness.

[Ki Breaker]

Anizara totally won me over in the first half..
Also, wings, how do they work? It's like just possessing them allows you to hover, no need to flap them or something..

Such beautiful transformation sequences, a great episode with an above average second half

2 hours later and still no episode review thread. I wonder if the staff forgot a new ep was airing today because of Christmas.

Isn't herms away? Don't think the new episode threads start without his translations.. Unless I am mistaken of course..
Edit: Scratch that, he was away for 120 as well..

[HeroR]

I have the exact answer. Goku is the PROTAGONIST. The PROTAGONIST of the show gets certain perks. Oh and since you want to debate "feats" , Would you say SS Rage Trunks in episode 62 > SSB Goku since he held off Zamasu and Goku Black by himself where Goku and Vegeta for that matter couldn't even take Black alone for any amount of time. That is a yes or no on the 2nd question

And despite Goku being the protagonist he lost all his major fights in Super outside of Golden Freeza and even then got taken by a laser. And Goku's feat still surpasses Super Saiyan Rage Trunks since Merged Zamasu is stronger than Black and Future Zamasu as individuals, even with team attacks.

Again I asked " after episode 62 was Rage Trunks > SSB Goku, Yes or NO?" I didn't ask you about episode 66.

As of 62, yes, he was stronger. Than Goku and Vegeta got stronger.

[HeroR]

Wow...

This looks awful. I mean the animation and art look gorgeous, but this is absolute BS. Vegeta shouldn't be able to scratch Jiren in SSB... and they make it sound like he's going to break his limits and get UI. This is ridiculous pandering and bullshit powerscaling. Gotta get those merch sales I guess

He got one kicked in and we don't know the context. Even Hit landed a punch and Blue Goku pushed Jiren back before the Kaioken.

SSBlue Vegeta is performing better than UI Goku. Amazing job by Toei.

Or, Goku ITed to Mr Digimon.

He can sense other universe's Ki now? Or was just that a U9 thing?

It was their special trait, Goku has already sensed opponents many times in this tournament.

How is Vegeta landing a single kick better than UI Goku, especially when Hit and Blue Goku got hits on Jiren?

[Slaythe]

Loved this episode, but I got one question that may or may not be answered: When 17 used his energy field to get closer to Aniraza, did he focus all of that energy to his fist to defeat Aniraza? That's how it seemed to me. But yeah, 17 is so badass now and it makes you understand why Japan is featuring him so heavily in Super merchandise. Also, I like how they're utilizing his energy field from Z in Super. The continuity of it all intrigues me.

Yes he turned his barrier into a "barrier punch" to avoid breaking his arm.

Pretty sick.

[Professor Freeza]

I think I just realized why this Vegeta keeping pace with Jiren thing bugs me as much as it does, assuming the reasoning they'll use is that Jiren is holding back.

It's because, in DBZ, whenever a villain was "holding back" to give the illusion of a good fight, they hadn't ever gone past that power threshold. Every time they were holding back, we as the audience could feasibly assume that this was their max power, because we had never seen anything greater than what they were showing off at that moment. It was feasible to assume as a kid watching Perfect Cell fight Trunks, that Trunks had actually found a way to match Cell, and that Cell was at full power and trying 100%. Only later is it revealed that he isn't trying.

The difference now, is that we've ALREADY SEEN Jiren BEAT THE SHIT out of GOKU SSB x20 KAIOKEN. He's already demonstrated his strength. So it doesn't work narratively to then have him "not try" against a far weaker opponent and take hits. We already KNOW he can go much higher than SSB Vegeta, so it's not as easy to let it roll off your back. It just comes off as filler nonsense padding, rather than typical shonen villain cockiness.

And also this looks eerily like Vegeta vs Perfect Cell too. And i pointed that out it triggered some people.

Remember how Cell was shocked at Final Flash? So does Jiren

[Supersaiyanbulla]

Wow...

This looks awful. I mean the animation and art look gorgeous, but this is absolute BS. Vegeta shouldn't be able to scratch Jiren in SSB... and they make it sound like he's going to break his limits and get UI. This is ridiculous pandering and bullshit powerscaling. Gotta get those merch sales I guess

He got one kicked in and we don't know the context. Even Hit landed a punch and Blue Goku pushed Jiren back before the Kaioken.

SSBlue Vegeta is performing better than UI Goku. Amazing job by Toei.

He can sense other universe's Ki now? Or was just that a U9 thing?

It was their special trait, Goku has already sensed opponents many times in this tournament.

How is Vegeta landing a single kick better than UI Goku, especially when Hit and Blue Goku got hits on Jiren?

Actually he got more hits in you probably only saw one part and jiren was actually serious and was blocking and was throwing hits big difference especially looking at his reaction to final flash and it was already said in the preview that vegeta was going to break his limts.

[Ki Breaker]

I think I just realized why this Vegeta keeping pace with Jiren thing bugs me as much as it does, assuming the reasoning they'll use is that Jiren is holding back.

It's because, in DBZ, whenever a villain was "holding back" to give the illusion of a good fight, they hadn't ever gone past that power threshold. Every time they were holding back, we as the audience could feasibly assume that this was their max power, because we had never seen anything greater than what they were showing off at that moment. It was feasible to assume as a kid watching Perfect Cell fight Trunks, that Trunks had actually found a way to match Cell, and that Cell was at full power and trying 100%. Only later is it revealed that he isn't trying.

The difference now, is that we've ALREADY SEEN Jiren BEAT THE SHIT out of GOKU SSB x20 KAIOKEN. He's already demonstrated his strength. So it doesn't work narratively to then have him "not try" against a far weaker opponent and take hits. We already KNOW he can go much higher than SSB Vegeta, so it's not as easy to let it roll off your back. It just comes off as filler nonsense padding, rather than typical shonen villain cockiness.

And also this looks eerily like Vegeta vs Perfect Cell too. And i pointed that out it triggered some people.

Remember how Cell was shocked at Final Flash? So does Jiren

An actual, charged, whole hearted final flash, in simple words, fucks shit up..

[Supersaiyanbulla]

That "Draw forth power beyond your limits!" line from Goku in reference to Vegeta is what got my attention. While he might not be using UI, Vegeta might be doing the same thing Goku did against Jiren, which is pushing himself to his utmost limits.

Now we know Jiren won't go full power against Vegeta for reasons, but he looks genuinely pressured and he's even sweating, something SSBKKx20 never did. Either Vegeta made some damn huge gains in the ROSAT that he's finally about to show off, or he's starting to push past his limits and unlocking more of his deep potential.

With what we've seen from the preview and taking into account that the episode after this is called "Full Body, Spirit, and Power Unleashed!" it might actually be about Vegeta.

I don't think he's going out yet considering we have yet to see that episode Toshio had written about him.

[Professor Freeza]

I think I just realized why this Vegeta keeping pace with Jiren thing bugs me as much as it does, assuming the reasoning they'll use is that Jiren is holding back.

It's because, in DBZ, whenever a villain was "holding back" to give the illusion of a good fight, they hadn't ever gone past that power threshold. Every time they were holding back, we as the audience could feasibly assume that this was their max power, because we had never seen anything greater than what they were showing off at that moment. It was feasible to assume as a kid watching Perfect Cell fight Trunks, that Trunks had actually found a way to match Cell, and that Cell was at full power and trying 100%. Only later is it revealed that he isn't trying.

The difference now, is that we've ALREADY SEEN Jiren BEAT THE SHIT out of GOKU SSB x20 KAIOKEN. He's already demonstrated his strength. So it doesn't work narratively to then have him "not try" against a far weaker opponent and take hits. We already KNOW he can go much higher than SSB Vegeta, so it's not as easy to let it roll off your back. It just comes off as filler nonsense padding, rather than typical shonen villain cockiness.

And also this looks eerily like Vegeta vs Perfect Cell too. And i pointed that out it triggered some people.

Remember how Cell was shocked at Final Flash? So does Jiren

An actual, charged, whole hearted final flash, in simple words, fucks shit up..

Obviously. But thats where i believe Goku's "Draw forth power beyond your limits" line fit in. Its the absolute best of Vegeta. But still doesnt get the job done because the Power gap is so big.

[Ki Breaker]

And also this looks eerily like Vegeta vs Perfect Cell too. And i pointed that out it triggered some people.

Remember how Cell was shocked at Final Flash? So does Jiren

An actual, charged, whole hearted final flash, in simple words, fucks shit up..

Obviously. But thats where i believe Goku's "Draw forth power beyond your limits" line fit in. Its the absolute best of Vegeta. But still doesnt get the job done because the Power gap is so big.

Yup, that makes the most sense in the grand scheme of things..

[JazzMazz]

Just because Goku has better feats doesn't mean he was stronger using Blue at the time, espicially considering Goku is pretty much famous for exerting power and doing things far beyond his own physical limitations.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I would LOVE if there was some sort of creative gimmick, but I just get the vibe that they're gonna give Vegeta one last fan pandering session while ignoring power scaling, before his elimination at the end of 122 or 123. Which, I guess, I don't really mind, as long as Jiren never shows any signs of actual damage. That's the key. I'd be fine if the excuse was "Jiren was holding back" just for the fuck of it, considering there's massive precedence for that. Every single villain in DBZ pretty much had that moment where they didn't try for absolutely no reason just for the sake of giving us a cool fight that otherwise shouldn't logically have happened. And we all just kinda roll it nowadays. Perfect Cell vs. Roid Trunks comes to mind. That fight was badass, but it pretty much meant nothing and was just a waste of time, and only served as an excuse to make Trunks look cool for half a second. I guess I could live with that here, especially considering how gorgeous it looks.

Judging by the NEP, I'm guessing that Vegeta is going to try and pull a Goku and put up a fight by improving during the fight and exerting power beyond his physical limitations.

Yet, you can't explain why Trunks and Vegeta together couldn't hurt Merged Zamasu but Goku could. It wasn't like they weren't given their all too.

Simple Goku tried harder, and pushed past his limitations so much that he broke his arms to overwhelm Zamasu. I don't see how thats hard to understand, he pushed himself more during that beam struggle than Vegeta or Trunks did.