"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Artorias]

I know their Universe is on stake, but why are Goku and Vegeta working together against one opponent (Jiren)? Isn't that against the saiyan pride thing? Something is up here?

There's your answer. Goku and Vegeta usually get over the butthurt reluctance to tag team when the stakes are that high and they've tried every other option. Has happened multiple times.

So just was I predicted we'll start the next year with the final battle between Universe 7 vs. Universe 11

- Gohan and #17 vs. Toppo
- Freeza vs. Dyspo
- Goku and Vegeta vs. Jiren

These seem to be great matches to me

So guys, using the following pictures, how badly do you think (or hope) Vegeta will be wrecked in the following episode?

[spoiler]Recoome wrecked

Freeza wrecked

Android 18 wrecked

Perfect Cell Wrecked

Kid Boo wrecked

Hit wrecked

Goku Black wrecked[/spoiler]

I'm leaning more towards Recoome and Perfect Cell wrecked.

We can also ask this same question to Goku:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That picture is a ridiculous misuse of the word "jobber". Goku is "jobbing" in literally only TWO of those pictures. The others he's just doing this thing called "losing".

So just was I predicted we'll start the next year with the final battle between Universe 7 vs. Universe 11

- Gohan and #17 vs. Toppo
- Freeza vs. Dyspo
- Goku and Vegeta vs. Jiren

These seem to be great matches to me




We can also ask this same question to Goku:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Goku either subsequently beat, indirectly defeated, or put up a majorly challenging fight against all of those guys, besides Black.

Vegeta jobs and stays down. Exception being Black.

Except your wrong and Vegeta got up and did a final flash too save goku and trunks and besides stop ignoring the fact that goku a jobber.

Goku ain't a jobber, fam. You fundamentally don't understand what the word even means if you think that.

[mahakaishin1991]

Odds of Ultimate battle playing in Vegeta vs Jiren?

[nitemare]

I'm a Goku fan fundamentally but I'd love to see some cool Vegeta moments including him having a decent fight against Jiren. That Final Flash from the preview looks seriously badass.

[Pannaliciour]

I know their Universe is on stake, but why are Goku and Vegeta working together against one opponent (Jiren)? Isn't that against the saiyan pride thing? Something is up here?

There's your answer. Goku and Vegeta usually get over the butthurt reluctance to tag team when the stakes are that high and they've tried every other option. Has happened multiple times.

Like when? Not talking about if somebody is sick (Goku vs android 19 and Vegeta saves him.

[HeroR]

Like when? Not talking about if somebody is sick (Goku vs android 19 and Vegeta saves him.

The teamed up against Merged Zamasu and even fused against him. They also teamed up against U9, the U2 snipers, and against U3 in 120.

[Artorias]

I know their Universe is on stake, but why are Goku and Vegeta working together against one opponent (Jiren)? Isn't that against the saiyan pride thing? Something is up here?

There's your answer. Goku and Vegeta usually get over the butthurt reluctance to tag team when the stakes are that high and they've tried every other option. Has happened multiple times.

Like when? Not talking about if somebody is sick (Goku vs android 19 and Vegeta saves him.

Buu and Merged Zamasu

[goku the krump dancer]

Sooooo Mascow not really being a robot.. Yay or Nay? Personally While kinda funny how he just plopped out all of a sudden, part of me thinks that it cheapens Universe 3 a bit. So the Cyber Universe isn't governed by a Robo-God but an Imp with a fondness for Tech?

I mean now that I say it to myself it doesnt seem so bad but still part of me feels so.. idk.. Lied to, I guess lol.

[Ki Breaker]

Sooooo Mascow not really being a robot.. Yay or Nay? Personally While kinda funny how he just plopped out all of a sudden, part of me thinks that it cheapens Universe 3 a bit. So the Cyber Universe isn't governed by a Robo-God but an Imp with a fondness for Tech?

I mean now that I say it to myself it doesnt seem so bad but still part of me feels so.. idk.. Lied to, I guess lol.

Not sure if this was ever officially announced but ever since the designs for God's came out, wasn't there a widespread belief he wasn't an actual robot?
honestly I was kinda expecting him to pop out last minute like he did..

[SirTorra]

I don't know if it's been brought up but U3 theme song is pretty cool. It reminds me of Faulconers tracks. If super can add more tracks like that and have takahashi animate every episode, dbs might surpass the og Dragonball.

[JazzMazz]

Simple Goku tried harder, and pushed past his limitations so much that he broke his arms to overwhelm Zamasu. I don't see how thats hard to understand, he pushed himself more during that beam struggle than Vegeta or Trunks did.

We saw Trunks 'tried hard' too and was actually being pushed back and would have died if Vegeta didn't step in. He had far more reason to overclock himself than Goku and Vegeta than came in to help him. If he was massively more powerful than Goku, then together they should have hurt Merged Zamasu even a little even if Vegeta himself wasn't trying nearly as hard.

Dude, its practically a shonen trope for the main protagonist to push past their limits and gain a momentary upper hand against the super powerful antagonist. Hell its something that Goku is known for doing.

In the series, I would say Goku is the only character that has consistently shown to have exerted power beyond his limits at the cost of suffering great physical infliction.

If he can exert power far beyond what he can actually do at the cost of causing his body grievous damage, than the difference between him and Vegeta is negligible as he can just overcome that difference.

[TheSaiyanGod]

My thing is, people are basing too much on a visual display from a 30 second preview no less. Visually, Vegeta seems to be doing well enough given the circumstances, but people were saying the same things when the 111 preview showed Hit tagging Jiren where his heart is. Regardless, I definitely see this fight looking competitive for the most part until like near the end where Jiren takes the advantage and defeats Vegeta. Vegeta fighting Jiren at this point in the saga makes no sense if he was only just going to get destroyed completely.

In fact, Hitto was destroyed by Jiren throughout the preview of EP 111. Only in the end does he hit a punch and some people think he has a chance. But his performance, even in the preview, was poor.

In the preview of EP 122, Vegeta seems to be doing better against Jiren

Toei messed up when they made SSBKK. The manga has Vegeta and Goku very close in power but the anime made the gap even larger. Now they’re paying for it by making the power scaling atrocious. I don’t think Goku was ever supposed to be THAT much stronger than Vegeta.

Also, I hope this preview wasn’t the tipping point for you concerning power scaling in Super. If it is, I think you’ve turned a blind eye to majority of these episodes lol. As a Veget fan, I’m pumped to see what happens. Hoping we get to see UI Vegeta and Goku fighting Jiren.

They really didn't since even Blue Goku landed a hit on Jiren on 109 and we don't even know the context of Vegeta hitting him. I also don't see Goku and Vegeta not being equals as a bad thing, unlike most of this forum.

I think hoping for UI Vegeta is a pipe dream, but stranger things have happened.

Goku SSB did not hit any attack on Jiren, he needed to use Kaioken for it, and yet Jiren did not express any surprise with that, he acted like it was nothing.

Against Vegeta, Jiren seems to be having more work (we do not know why yet)

If goku had a "better feat " in the trunks arc then doesn't the NEP clearly show Vegeta with a much "better feat" than anything Goku did before Ultra Instinct? If i am not mistaken, Jiren hit Goku using kaioken x20 so fast he couldn't even see it coming and goku didn't even get within striking distance of him. Whereas Vegeta lands a solid gut kick to Jiren

Depends. Cause Goku literally sent a Jiren who braced for his punch flying into the air and through a mountain. Hit with one punch knocked him all the way back to the edge of the arena. As far as actually going in with close combat? Yeah, Vegeta is shown to be doing better than Hit and Goku. Hell, Goku is shown doing better here than he did in his first fight lol.

THIS. Just because Vegeta is shown to land a Kick doesnt mean anything. Even Pre UIO Goku made Jiren evade the Kamehameha.. [was surprised]

The difference is that apparently Jiren will need to defend the Final Flash. In EP 109 he just deviated from Goku's Kamehameha without much trouble.
He also seemed more concerned about Vegeta's attack

[Professor Freeza]

\

Depends. Cause Goku literally sent a Jiren who braced for his punch flying into the air and through a mountain. Hit with one punch knocked him all the way back to the edge of the arena. As far as actually going in with close combat? Yeah, Vegeta is shown to be doing better than Hit and Goku. Hell, Goku is shown doing better here than he did in his first fight lol.

THIS. Just because Vegeta is shown to land a Kick doesnt mean anything. Even Pre UIO Goku made Jiren evade the Kamehameha.. [was surprised]

The difference is that apparently Jiren will need to defend the Final Flash. In EP 109 he just deviated from Goku's Kamehameha without much trouble.
He also seemed more concerned about Vegeta's attack

I always felt tha6t the FF had the best Multiplier of any attack in the series. Better than SBC. Its a reason why Perfect cell had to dodge it even though the power gap was too much. Its also probably the same with Jiren blocking it.

[HeroR]

Dude, its practically a shonen trope for the main protagonist to push past their limits and gain a momentary upper hand against the super powerful antagonist. Hell its something that Goku is known for doing.

In the series, I would say Goku is the only character that has consistently shown to have exerted power beyond his limits at the cost of suffering great physical infliction.

If he can exert power far beyond what he can actually do at the cost of causing his body grievous damage, than the difference between him and Vegeta is negligible as he can just overcome that difference.

So no real answer other than writing. Which is funny since Trunks was the main hero in that arc, so shouldn't he technically be the one to do it. Trunks also pushed passed his limits in his beam struggled and overcame it with Vegata's help.

Vegeta went beyond his limits in the Battle of Gods when he got his rage boost. Trunks also went beyond his limits several times in the Future Trunks Saga.

Again, the same should hold true about Trunks since he was clearly the one presented as the hero of that story.

My thing is, people are basing too much on a visual display from a 30 second preview no less. Visually, Vegeta seems to be doing well enough given the circumstances, but people were saying the same things when the 111 preview showed Hit tagging Jiren where his heart is. Regardless, I definitely see this fight looking competitive for the most part until like near the end where Jiren takes the advantage and defeats Vegeta. Vegeta fighting Jiren at this point in the saga makes no sense if he was only just going to get destroyed completely.

In fact, Hitto was destroyed by Jiren throughout the preview of EP 111. Only in the end does he hit a punch and some people think he has a chance. But his performance, even in the preview, was poor.

In the preview of EP 122, Vegeta seems to be doing better against Jiren

Toei messed up when they made SSBKK. The manga has Vegeta and Goku very close in power but the anime made the gap even larger. Now they’re paying for it by making the power scaling atrocious. I don’t think Goku was ever supposed to be THAT much stronger than Vegeta.

Also, I hope this preview wasn’t the tipping point for you concerning power scaling in Super. If it is, I think you’ve turned a blind eye to majority of these episodes lol. As a Veget fan, I’m pumped to see what happens. Hoping we get to see UI Vegeta and Goku fighting Jiren.

They really didn't since even Blue Goku landed a hit on Jiren on 109 and we don't even know the context of Vegeta hitting him. I also don't see Goku and Vegeta not being equals as a bad thing, unlike most of this forum.

I think hoping for UI Vegeta is a pipe dream, but stranger things have happened.

Goku SSB did not hit any attack on Jiren, he needed to use Kaioken for it, and yet Jiren did not express any surprise with that, he acted like it was nothing.

Against Vegeta, Jiren seems to be having more work (we do not know why yet)

Depends. Cause Goku literally sent a Jiren who braced for his punch flying into the air and through a mountain. Hit with one punch knocked him all the way back to the edge of the arena. As far as actually going in with close combat? Yeah, Vegeta is shown to be doing better than Hit and Goku. Hell, Goku is shown doing better here than he did in his first fight lol.

THIS. Just because Vegeta is shown to land a Kick doesnt mean anything. Even Pre UIO Goku made Jiren evade the Kamehameha.. [was surprised]

The difference is that apparently Jiren will need to defend the Final Flash. In EP 109 he just deviated from Goku's Kamehameha without much trouble.
He also seemed more concerned about Vegeta's attack

He did. He punched Jiren, Jiren block, and he went through a mountain. He also showed surprised over Blue Goku firing a Kamehameha.

[Noah]

No episode thread yet? Well, whatever I going to post on this one, then

[JazzMazz]

Dude, its practically a shonen trope for the main protagonist to push past their limits and gain a momentary upper hand against the super powerful antagonist. Hell its something that Goku is known for doing.

In the series, I would say Goku is the only character that has consistently shown to have exerted power beyond his limits at the cost of suffering great physical infliction.

If he can exert power far beyond what he can actually do at the cost of causing his body grievous damage, than the difference between him and Vegeta is negligible as he can just overcome that difference.

So no real answer other than writing. Which is funny since Trunks was the main hero in that arc, so shouldn't he technically be the one to do it. Trunks also pushed passed his limits in his beam struggled and overcame it with Vegata's help.

Vegeta went beyond his limits in the Battle of Gods when he got his rage boost. Trunks also went beyond his limits several times in the Future Trunks Saga.

Again, the same should hold true about Trunks since he was clearly the one presented as the hero of that story.

Trunks wasn't the one that needed a senzu bean from literally screwing themselves over in their a last ditched attempt to take down Zamasu that only served to piss him off, Goku was. He broke both his arms unleashing power that was greater than his body could withstand in order to pierce Zamasu's energy ball, and then proceeded to have his leg multilated before using the Kaio Ken to land a decisive blow against Zamasu, before literally falling to the ground completely out of energy. I think its more than safe to say he exerted himself more than either Trunks or Vegeta did.

[HeroR]

Trunks wasn't the one that needed a senzu bean from literally screwing themselves over in their a last ditched attempt to take down Zamasu that only served to piss him off, Goku was. He broke both his arms unleashing power that was greater than his body could withstand in order to pierce Zamasu's energy ball, and then proceeded to have his leg multilated before using the Kaio Ken to land a decisive blow against Zamasu, before literally falling to the ground completely out of energy. I think its more than safe to say he exerted himself more than either Trunks or Vegeta did.

Goku needed a Senzu since he used the Kaioken along with Merged Zamasu breaking his leg. Trunks was also the same person as a Super Saiyan 2 who parried Black Rose's blade, fought him briefly, and then kicked him into a building, So if we're going to used the 'power of plot', Trunks had far more of it in the Future Trunks Saga.

And again, if Vegeta was massively stronger, he would have to exert himself as much as Goku to do the same thing, especially with Trunks dumping energy into his blast since he was closed to dying.

[TheDipDap1234]

So the red rocks really was just a coloring error, and I thought it was going to be an important part of the episode lol.

Best thing about the NEP really is the animation. Love how everyone looks in it, even Toppo looked good.

Glad 17 survived, but I doubt he will survive for long. He had a lot of great moments already, and I think he should go in the next couple of episodes. Toppo needs some eliminations too you know.

[JazzMazz]

Trunks wasn't the one that needed a senzu bean from literally screwing themselves over in their a last ditched attempt to take down Zamasu that only served to piss him off, Goku was. He broke both his arms unleashing power that was greater than his body could withstand in order to pierce Zamasu's energy ball, and then proceeded to have his leg multilated before using the Kaio Ken to land a decisive blow against Zamasu, before literally falling to the ground completely out of energy. I think its more than safe to say he exerted himself more than either Trunks or Vegeta did.

Goku needed a Senzu since he used the Kaioken along with Merged Zamasu breaking his leg. Trunks was also the same person as a Super Saiyan 2 who parried Black Rose's blade, fought him briefly, and then kicked him into a building, So if we're going to used the 'power of plot', Trunks had far more of it in the Future Trunks Saga.

And again, if Vegeta was massively stronger, he would have to exert himself as much as Goku to do the same thing, especially with Trunks dumping energy into his blast since he was closed to dying.

I'm not saying Vegeta is massively stronger, I'm saying, at that time, he was stronger than Goku.

Also, I don't really see how surviving a minor confrontation with Black, espicially since he took Black by surprise during it really says anything about plot armour. It hold it in the same regard as Roshi pushing back Frost, its due to a surprise attack that his able to gain a momentary advantage over an opponent(even though in both Trunks and Roshi's case, it really didn't have any longlasting or devasting effect, espicially considering its a surprise attack).

[HeroR]

I'm not saying Vegeta is massively stronger, I'm saying, at that time, he was stronger than Goku.

Also, I don't really see how surviving a minor confrontation with Black, espicially since he took Black by surprise during it really says anything about plot armour. It hold it in the same regard as Roshi pushing back Frost, its due to a surprise attack that his able to gain a momentary advantage over an opponent(even though in both Trunks and Roshi's case, it really didn't have any longlasting or devasting effect, espicially considering its a surprise attack).

He didn't just survived, he block, parried, and kicked Black into a building. Not even Goku could do that at the time. And how surprised was Black since he was in the middle of attacking Goku at the time, so the power strong enough to sliced Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would have been what Trunks was blocking. Roshi and Frost isn't really comparable here since Frost wasn't trying to kill Roshi. Black was trying to kill Goku. That's no getting starting Trunks surviving a Kamehameha that knocked out Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. Trunks honestly should have been vaporized or a lot more damaged than what he was.

It's hard to put Vegeta as stronger based on Trunks and Vegeta together in a desperate struggled, especially Trunks, not harming Merged Zamasu, but Goku by himself soloed him and hurt him and still had the energy to kicked his several times, get his leg broke, and do a Kaioken times whatever to kick Zamasu in the face before finally going down. That and their performance in 64 and 65 were equal with Vegeta showing no advantage.

In this current arc, there is nothing putting Vegeta stronger than Goku other than the assumption that he must be stronger since he was stronger in the Future Trunks Saga and he went in the chamber again for 15 days. Vegeta even had a noticeable poorer performance against Toppo than Goku, mostly because he wasn't paying attention.

This may changed in 122, but as of now, we have nothing on Vegeta compared to Goku.

[ToshioWrites]

Considering Vegeta was distracted most of his fight with a toppo while Toppo wasn't . I'd say Vegeta did fairly well