Young Roshi and Crane Hermit

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:08 am

This is just bugging me... in the anime, when Roshi is telling them all about how Mutaito beat Piccolo Daimao, he and Crane are bald and wearing gis and... stuff. HOWEVER, when Goku travels through time when training at Kami's, the two Sennins are basically just young forms of themself. So, I'm assuming one of those is filler, and I was wondering which one.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:34 am

Both are filler. The manga didn't show flashbacks of that during the Piccolo Daimao saga, and it showed nothing of the three years Goku trained under Popo.

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:47 am

Yeah, the hair stuff is filler. The manga only has the Mutaito flashback, where they're both bald.

If we wanted to conceive some sensical explanation for it, maybe the flashbacks where they have hair are supposed to take place prior to their headshaving. But that's kind of a stretch, and maybe it's just easier to say Toei jumped the gun again.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:06 am

?!

I thought it didn't show those two in the Mutaito flashback. My mistake...

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:22 am

Piccolo Daimao+Mutaito flashback in manga:

Panel 1: Shadow of Piccolo looms over flames as humans are running away.
Panel 2: Mutaito's performing the mafuba on Piccolo as a bald guy watches
Panel 3: Mutaito's dead on the ground, one bald guy is checking to see if he's ok (eyes make me think Roshi) while another bald guy is standing further away (eyes+nose make me think Tsuru-senin).

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:09 pm

Dayspring wrote:Piccolo Daimao+Mutaito flashback in manga:

Panel 1: Shadow of Piccolo looms over flames as humans are running away.
Panel 2: Mutaito's performing the mafuba on Piccolo as a bald guy watches
Panel 3: Mutaito's dead on the ground, one bald guy is checking to see if he's ok (eyes make me think Roshi) while another bald guy is standing further away (eyes+nose make me think Tsuru-senin).

Manga points to the one checking on Mutaito as Old Man Roshi, and points to the other one as the Crane Hermit. And to me that flashback to young Roshi with hair made him look more like Yamcha.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:12 pm

What do you mean by "manga points to"? Also, they didn't have ANY hair in the flashback.

Post by **TripleRach** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:49 am

There are labels of "Young Kamesennin" and "Young Tsurusennin", with arrows pointing to the corresponding one. Kamesennin is the one bent over Mutaito (who looks so much like Tenshinhan...), and Tsurusennin is the standing one with the thin nose.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:51 am

Manga points to the one checking on Mutaito as Old Man Roshi, and points to the other one as the Crane Hermit.

Isn't that what Dayspring said?

Also, wasn't there some sketch from something floating around the web of Toriyama drawings of the young Sennins? They had the looks of the filler episode ones. Was that drawn before the fact, and Toei just used them?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:27 am

Ben Plante wrote:Also, wasn't there some sketch from something floating around the web of Toriyama drawings of the young Sennins? They had the looks of the filler episode ones. Was that drawn before the fact, and Toei just used them?

Would you mean these?:

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:22 am

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:59 am

Is it just me, or does it look like Toriyama simply used the same exact drawing on both of them and just altered a few tiny details?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:01 am

Well aren't they supposed to be brothers?

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:19 am

I'm not referring to their similiarities, I'm referring to the way it looks like Toriyama drew one of them, and then traced most of that image for the other. Lazy.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:29 am

They're brothers? I must have missed that part. I thought they were just training partners.

Anyway, still, did Toriyama draw those from the filler episode drawings, or did Toei use those even though he never did?

I would tend to think the latter, but Toriyama did borrow Bardock's appearance from Toei.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:50 pm

TOEI created those version of Kame and Tsurusenin. They're both bald and look nothing like that in the manga. Young Kamesenin looked like a two-eyed Tenshinhan, and Tsurusenin was dressed the same way, only picture his face the same way as it was when he was old, minus the wrinkles.

And the manga doesn't specify which was which.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:38 pm

Dayspring wrote:And the manga doesn't specify which was which.

Yes it does.

In DB Chapter 135 (which is on page 44 in vol. 12 of the tankoubon & English version, and on page 12 in vol. 10 of the Kanzenban), there are explanations, with arrows, pointing to each of the two disciples of Mutaito. The one standing aloof is labelled as "wakai koro no Tsuru-Sen'nin" ("the Crane Hermit when he was young"), while the one kneeling over his fallen teacher's body is "wakai koro no Kame-Sen'nin" ("the Turtle Hermit when he was young").

So there.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:04 pm

SaiyaJedi wrote:
Dayspring wrote:And the manga doesn't specify which was which.
Yes it does.

In DB Chapter 135 (which is on page 44 in vol. 12 of the tankoubon & English version, and on page 12 in vol. 10 of the Kanzenban), there are explanations, with arrows, pointing to each of the two disciples of Mutaito. The one standing aloof is labelled as "wakai koro no Tsuru-Sen'nin" ("the Crane Hermit when he was young"), while the one kneeling over his fallen teacher's body is "wakai koro no Kame-Sen'nin" ("the Turtle Hermit when he was young").

So there.

That's exactly what I said.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:49 pm

WTF?! Okees then. For some reason the french version of the tankoubon chose to edit out the arrows and dialogue. O_o

This is the flashback scene you're talking about right? Not a manga chapter cover? How fuckishly odd that they'd edit that out. It doesn't change anything! All it does it make it more difficult to figure out who was who.