dragon boss z wrote:I mean all of Trunk's attacks, his face, and the way he treated Frieza just seemed much more serious than King Cold. Though King Cold might not of even been in his final form.
Yeah, because Freeza is stronger than Cold. Freeza is a small threat to Trunks, but Cold is a even smaller one.
Actually Vegeta's standing ki should probably be lower than Frieza's full power. Goku had to power up to just 50% when showing Korrin. That means Vegeta's resting ki is quite a bit lower than 50% of his true power. This is also backed up by ssj Goku's resting power being 3,000 kilis in the Buu saga which was only a little more than 3x Yakkon who had 800 kili and was about equal with base Goku. The guide books say that 800 kili is 40 milliion, about where I have base Goku anyway and matches with him being weaker than Frieza in base, and 3,000 kili is 150 million, which would be his resting power at that time which I think would be about 1/10th of his true power, which also matches it being lower than 50% of his power. The only counter tot his is Dabura saying he had over 4,000 kilis which I think was anime only. Either way there resting power should be below 50% and I don't think Vegeta was quite 2x Frieza yet anyways.
What does 50% Goku have anything to do with this? He wanted Korin to have a grasp on his power but didn't want to show his 100%, that's all.
And Goku was suppressed against Yakon, though. Vegeta wasn't aware that Goku was stronger than Kid Gohan until he transformed.
What did that prove besides they felt Goku being stronger than them?
That the Z Fighter can grasp a power even if they only sensed it for a few seconds.
Maybe Freeza could of done that, but if he didn't block it would kill him, and Frieza didn't have time to block Trunks. If Goku did the exact same thing to Frieza on Namek, especially 50% Frieza, Frieza would of been cut right down the middle.
And considering mecha Frieza was stated to be supressed and we never see him charge up, the max I can really put him at is 70% since that's the strongest Frieza ever got without charging up or growing buff.
We are talking about a fully powered Freeza fighting Goku with a sword and how this would compare to a 100% Cyborg Freeza vs Trunks, though. 50% Freeza is irrevelant as probably Goku could rip him in two with his bare hands.
But there is no evidence Piccolo was even close to the strength you are saying besides trying to say he is half of Frieza, which really makes no sense. And it makes no reason for Toriyama to give him a random boost that big unless he needed it like Frieza did. Piccolo didn't fight without fusing so his base power doesn't need to be that high.
Yeah, it was pretty odd from Mr Toriyama's part to put the implications for Piccolo being that strong there as Piccolo never fought prior to merging with Nail, but the point stills: Nail thinks Kamiccolo might be able to beat Freeza, so it's impossible for post Kaio Piccolo to be leagues below 1st form Freeza.
Tbh Goku did underestimate them. It seemed he didn't even train hard and told nobody about the ROSAT.
His training was never shown except for a pannel of him blocking Piccolo and Gohan at the same time, though. To say Goku didn't train hard in an assumption.
And the Rosat was a thing for emergencies like the androids being stronger than expected, and Kami probably wouldn't let the Z Fighters use the Rosat considering Goku couldn't stand more than a month there as a kid and the earthlings didn't use to train for the Saiyans.
dragonball0900 wrote:Given that it was said in the Daizenshuu that after the ROSAT, Gotenks' base surpassed Vegeta, plus no mention of Goku, then that means that Goku and Kid Buu win this match.
But i think it's time to agree to disagree, regardless. I don't think neither of us is going to change our mind in this subject. Freeza > Piccolo may be a possibility, but IMO Piccolo is closer to the SSJs considering his confidence and the other points i already mentioned.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Base Gotenks (Post-RoSAT) vs SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu
Remember when Goku tooled Jeice and Boter at the same time? It goes like this. Both Kamiccolo and Trunks got to the same conclusions of Base Gotenks Post being able to do something SSJ Gotenks Pre couldn't do, and SSJ Gotenks by himself is already stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Pure Buu by consequence as stated by Goku himself.
dragonball0900 wrote:Given that it was said in the Daizenshuu that after the ROSAT, Gotenks' base surpassed Vegeta, plus no mention of Goku, then that means that Goku and Kid Buu win this match.
That's only for the site, though. According to Herms, the original Daizenshuu there is a picture of all of Gotenks' forms:
viewtopic.php?p=736141#p736141
So yeah, unless you're trying to tell me that SSJ3 Goku > Gotenks, no.
apex_pretador wrote:
Yes she did, because she's a badass and Shin is a puss who was threatened by her. Shin freaking feared pui-pui.
Neither Kaioshin could sense 18 nor she could sense him. So, I don't believe either of their statements.
Now, on Kaioshin vs Piccolo, Piccolo's words can be interpreted as shin being too godly. He can't sense God Ki so the comment couldn't be about raw power.
So Toei put the scene there only for the lulz? If #18 implied she can kill Shin, then she can. SSJ Goku threatened to kill Shin back on the Boo Arc too and nobody disregards the scene thinking Goku can't kill him just because he can't sense him.
And Kamiccolo made a spectacle of himself before Shin and forfeited claiming Shin was too strong for him. Doesn't sound like he's forfeiting because of hierarcy, if you ask me.
