"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Supersaiyanbulla]

I wonder ... we've pretty much seen 17's most badass moment, and next couple of eps we undoubtedly get Vegeta's. I wonder if this means that 17 and Vegeta are the next ones out.

Could Gohan outlast Vegeta?

I think that's all but certain to be honest, and I've thought that from the beginning. Vegeta has no real narrative presence in this arc, whereas Gohan is seemingly the secondary main character right now. I'd actually be shocked if Vegeta outlasted Gohan.

Just because gohan has hype doesn't mean anything especially when tons of characters got false hype.

[Olympian]

Well, I`ll make the prediction he will outlast Vegeta.

[Supersaiyanbulla]

Well, I`ll make the prediction he will outlast Vegeta.

I will make a prediction he won't.

[Noah]

My thoughts as well. Just because Universe 7 are the protagonists it doesn't mean we expected them to overcome everybody else with little to no difficulty. Up to now the Tournament of Power didn't felt like a big challenge to the likes of U7.

Roshi, Piccolo, Tien and Krillin got eliminated. Gohan, 18, Goku, and Vegeta almost got eliminated before this. Just because they didn't get brutally best down ( Gohan , Goku and Piccolo did ) doesn't mean they weren't challenged.

Name other universe than U7 that directly caused other one to be erased.

[Olympian]

Well, I`ll make the prediction he will outlast Vegeta.

I will make a prediction he won't.

A gentleman agreement

[Supersaiyanbulla]

Well, I`ll make the prediction he will outlast Vegeta.

I will make a prediction he won't.

A gentleman agreement

Yep

[Oracle]

Funny little demon dude has a small tail.


And I thought we would not have a smaller GoD than Quitela.

PD: Shout-outs to the staff for not opening the episode thread.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Well, I`ll make the prediction he will outlast Vegeta.

If he does it's because Vegeta is fighting Jiren....it doesn't make Gohan more important than Vegeta to the arc or story overall.

[CJStriker_CBR]

People thought Ribrianne was going to be a lot stronger than she was, that's why. You're looking at this in retrospect after we saw how she was taken out. When the tournament first started and due to magazine scans we had no idea how strong she would be.

When you look at the start of the ToP from episodes 98 to 106 it felt and looked that way with not only how Ribrianne's fights went, but others like Kale in Berserk form, the whole of the fighters felt and looked more powerful during that time. But right after the break between episodes 106-107 it felt like key characters got Nerfed allot, Ribrianne only going against base forms and getting tired, Kale who could go against SSJB-Goku now being said to be more powerful by 114 could not keep up with SSJ-Red Goku, so on.

It is not 100% certain, but their seemed to be a sizable powering down of some characters. Now this is what toei decided to do and I hope they lead to something good with it, but it indeed lead to a big sweep of U7 and that is just how it when.

That is good to see fans of U7 getting to see their favorites shine, but left allot of other universe fans with wondering why the nerf down?!

But it is what it is, hopefully it leads to good stuff down the line.

[Pannaliciour]

Like when? Not talking about if somebody is sick (Goku vs android 19 and Vegeta saves him.

The teamed up against Merged Zamasu and even fused against him. They also teamed up against U9, the U2 snipers, and against U3 in 120.

No no wait a sec. My bad not beeing clear about this. When did Goku and Vegeta fight together ( as in both at the same time) against one opponent that wasn't fused or helped by someone?

[Supersaiyanbulla]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SledDbs/stat ... 1345168384

[Michsi]

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Two things come to mind.

1. Damn, bright yellow SSJ looks so much better than blue

2. So Jiren has another form? :/

[JazzMazz]

I'm not saying Vegeta is massively stronger, I'm saying, at that time, he was stronger than Goku.

Also, I don't really see how surviving a minor confrontation with Black, espicially since he took Black by surprise during it really says anything about plot armour. It hold it in the same regard as Roshi pushing back Frost, its due to a surprise attack that his able to gain a momentary advantage over an opponent(even though in both Trunks and Roshi's case, it really didn't have any longlasting or devasting effect, espicially considering its a surprise attack).

He didn't just survived, he block, parried, and kicked Black into a building. Not even Goku could do that at the time. And how surprised was Black since he was in the middle of attacking Goku at the time, so the power strong enough to sliced Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would have been what Trunks was blocking. Roshi and Frost isn't really comparable here since Frost wasn't trying to kill Roshi. Black was trying to kill Goku. That's no getting starting Trunks surviving a Kamehameha that knocked out Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. Trunks honestly should have been vaporized or a lot more damaged than what he was.

It's hard to put Vegeta as stronger based on Trunks and Vegeta together in a desperate struggled, especially Trunks, not harming Merged Zamasu, but Goku by himself soloed him and hurt him and still had the energy to kicked his several times, get his leg broke, and do a Kaioken times whatever to kick Zamasu in the face before finally going down. That and their performance in 64 and 65 were equal with Vegeta showing no advantage.

In this current arc, there is nothing putting Vegeta stronger than Goku other than the assumption that he must be stronger since he was stronger in the Future Trunks Saga and he went in the chamber again for 15 days. Vegeta even had a noticeable poorer performance against Toppo than Goku, mostly because he wasn't paying attention.

This may changed in 122, but as of now, we have nothing on Vegeta compared to Goku.

Yes, I acknowledged that is what happened. However, that doesn't mean that Rose wasn't vastly stronger than him, and yes, surprise was the main element of that small attack, which Trunks used the leverage from to mount a counter attack that did no damage to Black. Also, I'm pretty sure that Kamehameha at the end of the episode wasn't meant to kill Goku, sure you could say that it should have done more damage to Trunks, but at that point, your being more pedantic than anything else, as it still incapacitated the both of them.

Again, what happened in episode 66 is an outlier, it doesn't suggest anything about Goku's real strength at the time in comparison to Vegeta's. Vegeta was stronger than Goku as Blue by #63, by how much is debateable. Goku pulling a Goku move and exerting more power than his body could physically withstand only suggests that Goku, by exerting more power than his capable of exerting normally, can output more power than Vegeta and Trunks can normally. Thats all that suggests.

In this current arc, the only thing that suggests Vegeta may be able to much up better than Goku is the fact that he trained. However, I would say since Goku has been pushing himself to constantly exert power beyond his limits, I think there is a high probability that he has surpassed Vegeta using his regular Super Saiyan Blue. However, at this point, it is merely speculation, next episode should confirm or dis-prove this claim though.

[ArchedThunder]

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It being a gut punch doesn't make it a reference.

[ToshioWrites]

Why is it controversial for Ssb Vegeta to be > ssb Goku? Vegeta trained with whis after the Black arc + he used the time chamber while Goku was stated as rusty by himself and Beerus

[Noah]

Why is it controversial for Ssb Vegeta to be > ssb Goku? Vegeta trained with whis after the Black arc + he used the time chamber while Goku was stated as rusty by himself and Beerus

Wrong thread, mate

[HeroR]

I'm obviously aware of shows that have important characters dying, but that's not the point here since the premise of the tournament is that the universes are erased and you'll almost never expect the whole main cast of a show to die. But death being pretty inconsequential on Dragon Ball is a common joke, but that applies to almost every episode of the whole series.

That is kind of my point when I asked if EOZ never existed would you honestly feel U7 was in danger of losing.

Yes, I acknowledged that is what happened. However, that doesn't mean that Rose wasn't vastly stronger than him, and yes, surprise was the main element of that small attack, which Trunks used the leverage from to mount a counter attack that did no damage to Black. Also, I'm pretty sure that Kamehameha at the end of the episode wasn't meant to kill Goku, sure you could say that it should have done more damage to Trunks, but at that point, your being more pedantic than anything else, as it still incapacitated the both of them.

Again, what happened in episode 66 is an outlier, it doesn't suggest anything about Goku's real strength at the time in comparison to Vegeta's. Vegeta was stronger than Goku as Blue by #63, by how much is debateable. Goku pulling a Goku move and exerting more power than his body could physically withstand only suggests that Goku, by exerting more power than his capable of exerting normally, can output more power than Vegeta and Trunks can normally. Thats all that suggests.

In this current arc, the only thing that suggests Vegeta may be able to much up better than Goku is the fact that he trained. However, I would say since Goku has been pushing himself to constantly exert power beyond his limits, I think there is a high probability that he has surpassed Vegeta using his regular Super Saiyan Blue. However, at this point, it is merely speculation, next episode should confirm or dis-prove this claim though.

How was 66 an outlier when the show didn't show us how Goku compared to Vegeta to begin with other than, 'Vegeta should be stronger' according to fans. In 62, Goku was sure he could beat Black and Zamasu just by limiting their movements, nothing about training to get stronger before that moment. We even have Black saying that Goku would get stronger, meaning that Goku, despite not training after their first beatdown, got stronger. Unless Black is only counting Goku's rage boost, but I doubt that's the case.

If we go by Super's breathing episodes, Vegeta stopped training months before Goku did since Goku and Krillin were sparring partners since Vegeta blew him off on 65.

Why is it controversial for Ssb Vegeta to be > ssb Goku? Vegeta trained with whis after the Black arc + he used the time chamber while Goku was stated as rusty by himself and Beerus

The 'controversial', at least for me, isn't that Vegeta is stronger than Goku in Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. The problem is that it is stated as a fact when nothing in the show suggests it.

Vegeta trained with Whis in 71 and 72, which is months ago in-universe within Super since Bulma wasn't showing being pregnant. Goku was 'training' with Hit at the time. After that, we never saw Vegeta trained with anyone again, while with Goku, we see him training with King Kai in 73, and Goku being bored in 75 since he had no one to spare with and Vegeta blew him off. By the end of 76, we see Goku asking Krillin to train with him. In Episode 83, Vegeta said he hasn't trained in a long time, especially since Bulma took his gravity room. So while Goku hasn't train in awhile by 77, neither has Vegeta. Vegeta also only spent 15 days in the chamber before the tournament.

Finally, Goku can't be that rusty since he used the Kaioken once in the entire Future Trunks Saga and it was for one quick attack. Now, not only is he using the Kaioken almost effortlessly even whiled tired, he can crack it to x20.

[TheSaiyanGod]

That was the only blow that Goku hit in Jiren (it was with the Kaioken). But it had no effect

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Here, Goku pushed Jiren through several mountains, but still the U11 warrior defended that punch

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That second shots is after Goku flew in for the follow up. Jiren went flying after Goku's punch and Goku followed him to punch him again. Jiren also reacted more to Goku's Kamehameha in Blue, then the Kaioken.

The first punch Goku gave (before pushing Jiren through the mountains) was also defended, and Jiren himself was not surprised

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[ToshioWrites]

Why is it controversial for Ssb Vegeta to be > ssb Goku? Vegeta trained with whis after the Black arc + he used the time chamber while Goku was stated as rusty by himself and Beerus

Wrong thread, mate

It's not power scaling its a question about fandom reaction not debating if the statement is true or not

[Kenneth La Torre]

Well, How strong is this ragegeta going to be? Is he going to force jiren to use 1/10 of his power?