"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Why some here say Herms translation is wrong?

Some translators said that Vegeta gave a decent fight before losing to Jiren. Herms said that Vegeta got stomped without even putting up a decent fight.

[Jigurashi]

I thought what Vegeta got from the manga was fine. Having him wreck Black at first without even establishing Black as a threat at all, and not having Goku fight Black once was terrible though. As for Vegeta fighting Jiren, it's not like he was ever going to accomplish anything major against him considering SSB is all Vegeta has on him.

With that said, I see the fight being framed in a way to where it looks quite competitive for awhile. I imagine the Final Flash will be Vegeta's last big move against Jiren and afterwards he gets bodied. Then Goku and Vegeta get bodied together in a 2v1.

I think Vegeta will do well enough since you can technically say that Hit lost to Jiren without doing anything. Why counts as 'decent' is subjective. I mean, Toshi(sp) said Tien would have a cool moment.

Which is my point. I do see them having Vegeta land hits and being aggressive, but I don't see anything he throws at Jiren doing really much of anything to him in the long run.

[TheUltimateNinja]

If that Heroes trailer was accurate Gohan should job to Dyspo shortly and Vegeta probably gets jobbed by Toppo, that should lead us to Goku and Freeza vs Jiren.

[Artorias]

Currently, Vegeta doesn't have more wins than Goku.

I'm fairly certain that Vegeta has more wins, because he's within a few eliminations in the tournament, but he also defeated Ginyu from the RoF arc, and 3 dudes in the U6 tournament. Either way, even if he doesn't have more, they're within like 1 or 2 of each other, so my basic point still stands. You would think, judging from some of these people's comments, that Vegeta had just gotten embarrassed in every match he ever took part in if you hadn't watched the show for yourself. But that's honestly closer to what Goku has done. That dude has done nothing but get shat on this entire show, or at least until this arc.

Please, mate. You're acting like Vegeta fans should be like Piccolo/Krillin fans or something and be thankful when the writers throw a bone to their characters and that's just delusional. Vegeta fans always want more, him being a second fiddle is not enough, they want him to be the lead singer and their mentality is that only minor characters fans are satisfied with the little they receive.

I can't tell if you're defending that mentality or mocking it. But either way, I'm going to mock it. That is a stupid, entitled mentality that makes no sense. Like I said, Vegeta gets more screen time than any other character in this entire franchise except the main character. If you are unhappy with that, then you are spoiled and ungrateful. Simple as that. I have never seen another fanbase behave like this. No one complains that Han Solo didn't get enough shine in Star Wars. He got TONS of screentime and was the second most relevant character next to Luke Skywalker, the entire reason that the story even existed to begin with. And people were happy with that, as they should've been. It's not "throwing you a bone", it's dumping an entire truckload of bones on top of you that will last you forever.

I'm doing both actually. I'm not part of any character fan club, but it's reasonable to Vegeta fans to think that way as this series is always teasing that him is going to do something big soon, surpassing Goku and being the main character is a bit too much? Hell yes, but would you think a Krillin fan would have this kind of expectation? Hell no. That's my point.

Han Solo? Sorry, but for me Leia is the second most revelant character in the OT, I don't care that much about Han, also not really excited for his spin-off movie, I would rather something with Windu or Jabba, the Hutt.

But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

And again, I think comparing Vegeta, or ANY character for that matter, to Goku makes no sense. He is the main character in a shonen series. Of course he's going to get the cool power ups and pretty hair and final kills and all that. It comes with the territory. I just think they should be happy that rather than staying dead on Namek or being the side show dolt like he was in the Cell saga, Vegeta rose to prominence to get almost as much screen time as the main character. I think that's pretty damn cool, but apparently it's not good enough for most people.

And since when do victories mean anything in this case?

In the ToP, Vegeta only defeated randons, and had no decent fight so far. While Goku received 90% of the screen time and overshadowed several characters that could have stood out.
In the tournament of Champa, Vegeta also only defeated personages that Goku would have defeated. In the real battle, he was humiliated and served as a ladder to Goku and was still surpassed by him (Kaioken).
Number of wins is one of the worst arguments used (usually by Goku fans) to say he does not have excessive prominence.

And as I said in DBZ, Vegeta was already one of the main characters and with longer screen time, that's the least expected of DBS.
But it's no use if he's only humiliated all the time.
In the manga, Vegeta manages to perform well and he does not have to defeat the main villain for this.

I completely agree on your point about the ToP. Goku has had WAY too much focus, while Vegeta has definitely unfairly gotten the shaft. But that's isolated in THIS arc only. Every arc of this show before this has featured them neck and neck.

And I'm focusing on number of wins because that's the method of argument Vegeta fans will typically use. It either comes down to he didn't get enough wins, or he didn't get a transformation first. The conversation usually revolves around those two aspects, hence why I'm talking wins here.

And where has Vegeta gotten "humiliated' in Super? Twice? Against Black and against Hit right? But...so has Goku. Got dunked by Beerus. Dunked by Freeza's minion. Dunked by Frost. Dunked by Hit. Dunked by Jiren. Goku has lost horribly PLENTY of times in this show. So my whole point is that they've both performed pretty terribly overall, so it makes no sense to single out Vegeta and pretend that he is just this joke that is leagues below Goku. It just isn't the case in this show.

I also don't understand your point about DBZ. I would not have expected Vegeta to have this level of prominence in modern DB after watching Z. He's getting much more shine than, again, 99% of the characters, much more than anyone would've predicted in like 1992.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

Not that broken. In early DB humans could easily surpass any level Goku reached with far less time and effort than he took to get there. The same thing happens with Vegeta later on, always catching up to Goku offscreen. And Gohan could easily surpass Goku whenever he wanted by getting mad or sitting down for a day.

[Artorias]

But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

Not that broken. In early DB humans could easily surpass any level Goku reached with far less time and effort than he took to get there. The same thing happens with Vegeta later on, always catching up to Goku offscreen. And Gohan could easily surpass Goku whenever he wanted by getting mad or sitting down for a day.

Oh yea, for sure. I was just kinda exaggerating for the sake of the point. Should've just stopped at "powerful prodigy" or something like that.

[Hawk9211]

Vegeta has been treated far better than he was ever treated in dbz.You can make a argument for excessive and unnecessary use of goku,but it's this arc's problem.

[Khandom101]

If that Heroes trailer was accurate Gohan should job to Dyspo shortly and Vegeta probably gets jobbed by Toppo, that should lead us to Goku and Freeza vs Jiren.

What trailer?

[Ki Breaker]

If that Heroes trailer was accurate Gohan should job to Dyspo shortly and Vegeta probably gets jobbed by Toppo, that should lead us to Goku and Freeza vs Jiren.

What trailer?

He is most likely basing it on the spoilers and this trailer

[Cipher]

Some translators said that Vegeta gave a decent fight before losing to Jiren. Herms said that Vegeta got stomped without even putting up a decent fight.

People missed a negative verb ending (‐ず), which means "without doing." Herms is always right.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Some translators said that Vegeta gave a decent fight before losing to Jiren. Herms said that Vegeta got stomped without even putting up a decent fight.

People missed a negative verb ending (‐ず), which means "without doing." Herms is always right.

This one should have been obvious even without any knowledge of Japanese, considering it's Vegeta and all.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Ken Xyro continues to say (after the scan is released) that it can be interpreted in both ways (Vegeta doing or not a good fight against Jiren), even his translation is a little different from herms.

So, another person who knows Japanese could clarify what the correct version really is?

[Mercenary]

Ken Xyro continues to say (after the scan is released) that it can be interpreted in both ways (Vegeta doing or not a good fight against Jiren), even his translation is a little different from herms.

So, another person who knows Japanese could clarify what the correct version really is?

I think we shouldn't really care about this. Goku Cena will hog everything anyway so there's no point in discussing whether Vegeta performed better than Hit & Goku or not. He still jobs.

[perucho1990]

Volume 36 is the best cover ever, just look at Frost, God that bastard shines With Freeza on his side, this duo should have been explored more than what we got..

And they gave Roshi a Cover and not Hit, thats...weird

[TheDipDap1234]

Volume 36 is the best cover ever, just look at Frost, God that bastard shines With Freeza on his side, this duo should have been explored more than what we got..

And they gave Roshi a Cover and not Hit, thats...weird

Not weird at all. Roshi is a classic DB character who got a lot of focus and love in this saga, way more than Hit did.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Ken Xyro continues to say (after the scan is released) that it can be interpreted in both ways (Vegeta doing or not a good fight against Jiren), even his translation is a little different from herms.

So, another person who knows Japanese could clarify what the correct version really is?

I think we shouldn't really care about this. Goku Cena will hog everything anyway so there's no point in discussing whether Vegeta performed better than Hit & Goku or not. He still jobs.

Well on the part of Goku, even with the WSJ synopsis implying that he will 'challenge' Jiren alone, according to other synopses that came out this week, he and Vegeta will face Jiren together (even after Vegeta's defeat) . At least, it looks like he will not do it all alone for now

But, anyway, I think you're right in parts. I do not know if we should care so much about this synopsis, since we do not know the definition of '' good fight '' for the guy who wrote it.

Some people think that Hitto fought Jiren better than Goku UI and others think he had a ridiculous and useless defeat, so ...

But anyway, I still wanted a clarification on which version is right

[perucho1990]

Not weird at all. Roshi is a classic DB character who got a lot of focus and love in this saga, way more than Hit did.

I wouldve put Roshi and Frost together for Vol 36, while Hit and Goku for Vol 35.

Vol 37 should have Goku and Jiren (Episodes 109-111)

Vol 38, knowing Toei the Saiyan Girls and Cabba gets cucked out of the Cover. (112-114)

Vol 39, UI Goku and Kefla (115-117)

[Mercenary]

Ken Xyro continues to say (after the scan is released) that it can be interpreted in both ways (Vegeta doing or not a good fight against Jiren), even his translation is a little different from herms.

So, another person who knows Japanese could clarify what the correct version really is?

I think we shouldn't really care about this. Goku Cena will hog everything anyway so there's no point in discussing whether Vegeta performed better than Hit & Goku or not. He still jobs.

Well on the part of Goku, even with the WSJ synopsis implying that he will 'challenge' Jiren alone, according to other synopses that came out this week, he and Vegeta will face Jiren together (even after Vegeta's defeat) . At least, it looks like he will not do it all alone for now

But, anyway, I think you're right in parts. I do not know if we should care so much about this synopsis, since we do not know the definition of '' good fight '' for the guy who wrote it.

Some people think that Hitto fought Jiren better than Goku UI and others think he had a ridiculous and useless defeat, so ...

But anyway, I still wanted a clarification on which version is right

Vegeta did manage to land a blow or two and actually made Jiren sweating. Something both Goku & Hit couldn't do. I firmly believe it speaks for itself.

Even Herms stated that : "

Also of course "good fight" is a bit subjective. However well Vegeta does, I'm sure at least some people will say it counts as a good fight in their book. Whoever wrote this Jump preview might be a harsher judge.

"

Probably for a guy who has written this summary, not stomping Jiren could not be considered as a good/decent fight.

And as you've said - Vegeta is still in afterwards. Goku's released full SSB power, so what? In ep.124 he needs Vegeta's help so he lost as well. They're both losers tbh. Jiren is just too OP.

[sintzu]

They gave Roshi a Cover and not Hit, thats...weird.

He's one of the biggest surprises of the arc so he deserves it.

Does anyone have the cover for the 18th set ? I've looked everywhere for it but can't find it.

[Jigurashi]

Currently, Vegeta doesn't have more wins than Goku.

I'm fairly certain that Vegeta has more wins, because he's within a few eliminations in the tournament, but he also defeated Ginyu from the RoF arc, and 3 dudes in the U6 tournament. Either way, even if he doesn't have more, they're within like 1 or 2 of each other, so my basic point still stands. You would think, judging from some of these people's comments, that Vegeta had just gotten embarrassed in every match he ever took part in if you hadn't watched the show for yourself. But that's honestly closer to what Goku has done. That dude has done nothing but get shat on this entire show, or at least until this arc.

I can't tell if you're defending that mentality or mocking it. But either way, I'm going to mock it. That is a stupid, entitled mentality that makes no sense. Like I said, Vegeta gets more screen time than any other character in this entire franchise except the main character. If you are unhappy with that, then you are spoiled and ungrateful. Simple as that. I have never seen another fanbase behave like this. No one complains that Han Solo didn't get enough shine in Star Wars. He got TONS of screentime and was the second most relevant character next to Luke Skywalker, the entire reason that the story even existed to begin with. And people were happy with that, as they should've been. It's not "throwing you a bone", it's dumping an entire truckload of bones on top of you that will last you forever.

I'm doing both actually. I'm not part of any character fan club, but it's reasonable to Vegeta fans to think that way as this series is always teasing that him is going to do something big soon, surpassing Goku and being the main character is a bit too much? Hell yes, but would you think a Krillin fan would have this kind of expectation? Hell no. That's my point.

Han Solo? Sorry, but for me Leia is the second most revelant character in the OT, I don't care that much about Han, also not really excited for his spin-off movie, I would rather something with Windu or Jabba, the Hutt.

But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

And again, I think comparing Vegeta, or ANY character for that matter, to Goku makes no sense. He is the main character in a shonen series. Of course he's going to get the cool power ups and pretty hair and final kills and all that. It comes with the territory. I just think they should be happy that rather than staying dead on Namek or being the side show dolt like he was in the Cell saga, Vegeta rose to prominence to get almost as much screen time as the main character. I think that's pretty damn cool, but apparently it's not good enough for most people.

And since when do victories mean anything in this case?

In the ToP, Vegeta only defeated randons, and had no decent fight so far. While Goku received 90% of the screen time and overshadowed several characters that could have stood out.
In the tournament of Champa, Vegeta also only defeated personages that Goku would have defeated. In the real battle, he was humiliated and served as a ladder to Goku and was still surpassed by him (Kaioken).
Number of wins is one of the worst arguments used (usually by Goku fans) to say he does not have excessive prominence.

And as I said in DBZ, Vegeta was already one of the main characters and with longer screen time, that's the least expected of DBS.
But it's no use if he's only humiliated all the time.
In the manga, Vegeta manages to perform well and he does not have to defeat the main villain for this.

I completely agree on your point about the ToP. Goku has had WAY too much focus, while Vegeta has definitely unfairly gotten the shaft. But that's isolated in THIS arc only. Every arc of this show before this has featured them neck and neck.

And I'm focusing on number of wins because that's the method of argument Vegeta fans will typically use. It either comes down to he didn't get enough wins, or he didn't get a transformation first. The conversation usually revolves around those two aspects, hence why I'm talking wins here.

And where has Vegeta gotten "humiliated' in Super? Twice? Against Black and against Hit right? But...so has Goku. Got dunked by Beerus. Dunked by Freeza's minion. Dunked by Frost. Dunked by Hit. Dunked by Jiren. Goku has lost horribly PLENTY of times in this show. So my whole point is that they've both performed pretty terribly overall, so it makes no sense to single out Vegeta and pretend that he is just this joke that is leagues below Goku. It just isn't the case in this show.

I also don't understand your point about DBZ. I would not have expected Vegeta to have this level of prominence in modern DB after watching Z. He's getting much more shine than, again, 99% of the characters, much more than anyone would've predicted in like 1992.

Vegeta's wins are against Ginyu, Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, U9, Frost + Magetta, Ribrianne, Anizara.

Goku's wins are against Freeza, Botamo, Trunks, Present Zamasu, Bergamo, Kuririn (x2), Roshi, Gohan, U9, Rozie, Ribrianne, Caulifla + Kale, Kefla, U2, and Anizara. Goku has more wins primarily due to this saga.