"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[IndieBooToo]

I think we shouldn't really care about this. Goku Cena will hog everything anyway so there's no point in discussing whether Vegeta performed better than Hit & Goku or not. He still jobs.

Well on the part of Goku, even with the WSJ synopsis implying that he will 'challenge' Jiren alone, according to other synopses that came out this week, he and Vegeta will face Jiren together (even after Vegeta's defeat) . At least, it looks like he will not do it all alone for now

But, anyway, I think you're right in parts. I do not know if we should care so much about this synopsis, since we do not know the definition of '' good fight '' for the guy who wrote it.

Some people think that Hitto fought Jiren better than Goku UI and others think he had a ridiculous and useless defeat, so ...

But anyway, I still wanted a clarification on which version is right

Vegeta did manage to land a blow or two and actually made Jiren sweating. Something both Goku & Hit couldn't do. I firmly believe it speaks for itself.

Even Herms stated that : "

Also of course "good fight" is a bit subjective. However well Vegeta does, I'm sure at least some people will say it counts as a good fight in their book. Whoever wrote this Jump preview might be a harsher judge.

"

Probably for a guy who has written this summary, not stomping Jiren could not be considered as a good/decent fight.

And as you've said - Vegeta is still in afterwards. Goku's released full SSB power, so what? In ep.124 he needs Vegeta's help so he lost as well. They're both losers tbh. Jiren is just too OP.

Vegeta fanboys just won't let the NEP go and fail to realize that it could be misleading. You also see Goku laughing as he's dodging Jiren's blows. Vegeta's hits look like they didn't do shit to Jiren at all so the whole "hurr durr Vegeta is stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku" delusion is pretty much dead. Jiren is holding back like crazy. They were clear when they said Vegeta gets his ass kicked by Jiren without putting up a real fight and then a full power SSB Goku took over by himself. Vegeta still being in doesn't mean much since he's likely being set up to have his "cool moment" by trying to stall Jiren alone while Goku tries to unleash UI again. So like the Kid Buu fight, he'll just get his ass kicked long enough for Goku to utilize his secret power.

[buutenks]

I'd wait for the actual episode to air before judging how Vegeta will do vs Jiren.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well on the part of Goku, even with the WSJ synopsis implying that he will 'challenge' Jiren alone, according to other synopses that came out this week, he and Vegeta will face Jiren together (even after Vegeta's defeat) . At least, it looks like he will not do it all alone for now

But, anyway, I think you're right in parts. I do not know if we should care so much about this synopsis, since we do not know the definition of '' good fight '' for the guy who wrote it.

Some people think that Hitto fought Jiren better than Goku UI and others think he had a ridiculous and useless defeat, so ...

But anyway, I still wanted a clarification on which version is right

Vegeta did manage to land a blow or two and actually made Jiren sweating. Something both Goku & Hit couldn't do. I firmly believe it speaks for itself.

Even Herms stated that : "

Also of course "good fight" is a bit subjective. However well Vegeta does, I'm sure at least some people will say it counts as a good fight in their book. Whoever wrote this Jump preview might be a harsher judge.

"

Probably for a guy who has written this summary, not stomping Jiren could not be considered as a good/decent fight.

And as you've said - Vegeta is still in afterwards. Goku's released full SSB power, so what? In ep.124 he needs Vegeta's help so he lost as well. They're both losers tbh. Jiren is just too OP.

Vegeta fanboys just won't let the NEP go and fail to realize that it could be misleading. You also see Goku laughing as he's dodging Jiren's blows. Vegeta's hits look like they didn't do shit to Jiren at all so the whole "hurr durr Vegeta is stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku" delusion is pretty much dead. Jiren is holding back like crazy. They were clear when they said Vegeta gets his ass kicked by Jiren without putting up a real fight and then a full power SSB Goku took over by himself. Vegeta still being in doesn't mean much since he's likely being set up to have his "cool moment" by trying to stall Jiren alone while Goku tries to unleash UI again. So like the Kid Buu fight, he'll just get his ass kicked long enough for Goku to utilize his secret power.

Oh, so the Goku fanboys are SO desperate because they do not want Vegeta to be any stronger than the Blue KK x20 (so they go into this state of denial).

Goku is saying something to Jiren when he was laughing, he may just be excited, that does not mean anything. After all, in the preview we saw that he hits no blow (even trying) and is shown him kneeling watching Vegeta fight and jiren
Jiren also does not seem to make any effort while facing Goku.

Funny that you speak not to trust the preview of EP 122, but you're bragging about a synopsis that has already been wrong several times, and the concept of "good fight" is very relative.
The same synopsis that said that Kefla would be stronger than Goku SSB on EP 115 saying that '' her attacks were more intense than Goku's '', and we saw just the opposite (not to mention mistakes like '' Piccolo slipped out of the arena '' and '' Kuririn was disqualified '').

But that's it, fans like to be fooled by previews and synopses, but of course, that they always take the most convenient part and then get frustrated.

Incidentally, in the manga it is said that Goku '' completed '' the SSB. The term '' '完成' 'which means to complete was not used at any time in the synopsis.
Just to complete, in the synopsis of EP 124 it is said that Goku and Vegeta are fighting TOGETHER and can barely hit Jiren.

So, to your frustration, Goku will not face Jiren alone

[Totamo]

Vegeta did manage to land a blow or two and actually made Jiren sweating. Something both Goku & Hit couldn't do. I firmly believe it speaks for itself.

Even Herms stated that : ""

Probably for a guy who has written this summary, not stomping Jiren could not be considered as a good/decent fight.

And as you've said - Vegeta is still in afterwards. Goku's released full SSB power, so what? In ep.124 he needs Vegeta's help so he lost as well. They're both losers tbh. Jiren is just too OP.

Vegeta fanboys just won't let the NEP go and fail to realize that it could be misleading. You also see Goku laughing as he's dodging Jiren's blows. Vegeta's hits look like they didn't do shit to Jiren at all so the whole "hurr durr Vegeta is stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku" delusion is pretty much dead. Jiren is holding back like crazy. They were clear when they said Vegeta gets his ass kicked by Jiren without putting up a real fight and then a full power SSB Goku took over by himself. Vegeta still being in doesn't mean much since he's likely being set up to have his "cool moment" by trying to stall Jiren alone while Goku tries to unleash UI again. So like the Kid Buu fight, he'll just get his ass kicked long enough for Goku to utilize his secret power.

Oh, so the Goku fanboys are SO desperate because they do not want Vegeta to be any stronger than the Blue KK x20 (so they go into this state of denial).

Goku is saying something to Jiren when he was laughing, he may just be excited, that does not mean anything. After all, in the preview we saw that he hits no blow (even trying) and is shown him kneeling watching Vegeta fight and jiren
Jiren also does not seem to make any effort while facing Goku.

Funny that you speak not to trust the preview of EP 122, but you're bragging about a synopsis that has already been wrong several times, and the concept of "good fight" is very relative.
The same synopsis that said that Kefla would be stronger than Goku SSB on EP 115 saying that '' her attacks were more intense than Goku's '', and we saw just the opposite (not to mention mistakes like '' Piccolo slipped out of the arena '' and '' Kuririn was disqualified '').

But that's it, fans like to be fooled by previews and synopses, but of course, that they always take the most convenient part and then get frustrated.

Incidentally, in the manga it is said that Goku '' completed '' the SSB. The term '' '完成' 'which means to complete was not used at any time in the synopsis.
Just to complete, in the synopsis of EP 124 it is said that Goku and Vegeta are fighting TOGETHER and can barely hit Jiren.

So, to your frustration, Goku will not face Jiren alone

Lets be honest here. Even if Vegeta does do better than Goku and Hit, if he gets trashed harder than Goku and Hit, does it really add up?


Neither Goku nor Hit were ever injured, Goku was just tired.

[Totamo]

Currently, Vegeta doesn't have more wins than Goku.

I'm fairly certain that Vegeta has more wins, because he's within a few eliminations in the tournament, but he also defeated Ginyu from the RoF arc, and 3 dudes in the U6 tournament. Either way, even if he doesn't have more, they're within like 1 or 2 of each other, so my basic point still stands. You would think, judging from some of these people's comments, that Vegeta had just gotten embarrassed in every match he ever took part in if you hadn't watched the show for yourself. But that's honestly closer to what Goku has done. That dude has done nothing but get shat on this entire show, or at least until this arc.

I'm doing both actually. I'm not part of any character fan club, but it's reasonable to Vegeta fans to think that way as this series is always teasing that him is going to do something big soon, surpassing Goku and being the main character is a bit too much? Hell yes, but would you think a Krillin fan would have this kind of expectation? Hell no. That's my point.

Han Solo? Sorry, but for me Leia is the second most revelant character in the OT, I don't care that much about Han, also not really excited for his spin-off movie, I would rather something with Windu or Jabba, the Hutt.

But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

And again, I think comparing Vegeta, or ANY character for that matter, to Goku makes no sense. He is the main character in a shonen series. Of course he's going to get the cool power ups and pretty hair and final kills and all that. It comes with the territory. I just think they should be happy that rather than staying dead on Namek or being the side show dolt like he was in the Cell saga, Vegeta rose to prominence to get almost as much screen time as the main character. I think that's pretty damn cool, but apparently it's not good enough for most people.

And since when do victories mean anything in this case?

In the ToP, Vegeta only defeated randons, and had no decent fight so far. While Goku received 90% of the screen time and overshadowed several characters that could have stood out.
In the tournament of Champa, Vegeta also only defeated personages that Goku would have defeated. In the real battle, he was humiliated and served as a ladder to Goku and was still surpassed by him (Kaioken).
Number of wins is one of the worst arguments used (usually by Goku fans) to say he does not have excessive prominence.

And as I said in DBZ, Vegeta was already one of the main characters and with longer screen time, that's the least expected of DBS.
But it's no use if he's only humiliated all the time.
In the manga, Vegeta manages to perform well and he does not have to defeat the main villain for this.

I completely agree on your point about the ToP. Goku has had WAY too much focus, while Vegeta has definitely unfairly gotten the shaft. But that's isolated in THIS arc only. Every arc of this show before this has featured them neck and neck.

And I'm focusing on number of wins because that's the method of argument Vegeta fans will typically use. It either comes down to he didn't get enough wins, or he didn't get a transformation first. The conversation usually revolves around those two aspects, hence why I'm talking wins here.

And where has Vegeta gotten "humiliated' in Super? Twice? Against Black and against Hit right? But...so has Goku. Got dunked by Beerus. Dunked by Freeza's minion. Dunked by Frost. Dunked by Hit. Dunked by Jiren. Goku has lost horribly PLENTY of times in this show. So my whole point is that they've both performed pretty terribly overall, so it makes no sense to single out Vegeta and pretend that he is just this joke that is leagues below Goku. It just isn't the case in this show.

I also don't understand your point about DBZ. I would not have expected Vegeta to have this level of prominence in modern DB after watching Z. He's getting much more shine than, again, 99% of the characters, much more than anyone would've predicted in like 1992.

Vegeta's wins are against Ginyu, Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, U9, Frost + Magetta, Ribrianne, Anizara.

Goku's wins are against Freeza, Botamo, Trunks, Present Zamasu, Bergamo, Kuririn (x2), Roshi, Gohan, U9, Rozie, Ribrianne, Caulifla + Kale, Kefla, U2, and Anizara. Goku has more wins primarily due to this saga.

Those were not fights, those were spars. This is like counting Vegeta destroying robots in the gravity room.

[BlueBasilisk]

Remember when Zarbuto, Rabanra and Zirloin were paralyzed and about to be taken out by Frieza, only for Goku to swoop in and snipe them at the last second with a Kamehameha? And the angry spat that followed? Highlight of 118 that was.

[Dbzfan94]

It's hardly fair to give Goku a win for beating Aniraza; 17 was the MVP of that.

[MisteryOne]

I'm fairly certain that Vegeta has more wins, because he's within a few eliminations in the tournament, but he also defeated Ginyu from the RoF arc, and 3 dudes in the U6 tournament. Either way, even if he doesn't have more, they're within like 1 or 2 of each other, so my basic point still stands. You would think, judging from some of these people's comments, that Vegeta had just gotten embarrassed in every match he ever took part in if you hadn't watched the show for yourself. But that's honestly closer to what Goku has done. That dude has done nothing but get shat on this entire show, or at least until this arc.



But why are Vegeta fans, after two decades of the same shit, STILL expecting them to give him the full treatment? How could you even be a Vegeta fan if the fact that he doesn't get the full shine bothers you this much? You get what I'm saying? I would never have become a Goku fan if I was bothered by characters that are broken, OP prodigies. So why is it that people who are Vegeta fans expect him to become something he isn't?

And again, I think comparing Vegeta, or ANY character for that matter, to Goku makes no sense. He is the main character in a shonen series. Of course he's going to get the cool power ups and pretty hair and final kills and all that. It comes with the territory. I just think they should be happy that rather than staying dead on Namek or being the side show dolt like he was in the Cell saga, Vegeta rose to prominence to get almost as much screen time as the main character. I think that's pretty damn cool, but apparently it's not good enough for most people.



I completely agree on your point about the ToP. Goku has had WAY too much focus, while Vegeta has definitely unfairly gotten the shaft. But that's isolated in THIS arc only. Every arc of this show before this has featured them neck and neck.

And I'm focusing on number of wins because that's the method of argument Vegeta fans will typically use. It either comes down to he didn't get enough wins, or he didn't get a transformation first. The conversation usually revolves around those two aspects, hence why I'm talking wins here.

And where has Vegeta gotten "humiliated' in Super? Twice? Against Black and against Hit right? But...so has Goku. Got dunked by Beerus. Dunked by Freeza's minion. Dunked by Frost. Dunked by Hit. Dunked by Jiren. Goku has lost horribly PLENTY of times in this show. So my whole point is that they've both performed pretty terribly overall, so it makes no sense to single out Vegeta and pretend that he is just this joke that is leagues below Goku. It just isn't the case in this show.

I also don't understand your point about DBZ. I would not have expected Vegeta to have this level of prominence in modern DB after watching Z. He's getting much more shine than, again, 99% of the characters, much more than anyone would've predicted in like 1992.

Vegeta's wins are against Ginyu, Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, U9, Frost + Magetta, Ribrianne, Anizara.

Goku's wins are against Freeza, Botamo, Trunks, Present Zamasu, Bergamo, Kuririn (x2), Roshi, Gohan, U9, Rozie, Ribrianne, Caulifla + Kale, Kefla, U2, and Anizara. Goku has more wins primarily due to this saga.

Those were not fights, those were spars. This is like counting Vegeta destroying robots in the gravity room.

In which world was Bergamo a spar? They were told to not hold back at all, killing was alowed and Goku even used the Kaioken.

[Totamo]

Vegeta's wins are against Ginyu, Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, U9, Frost + Magetta, Ribrianne, Anizara.

Goku's wins are against Freeza, Botamo, Trunks, Present Zamasu, Bergamo, Kuririn (x2), Roshi, Gohan, U9, Rozie, Ribrianne, Caulifla + Kale, Kefla, U2, and Anizara. Goku has more wins primarily due to this saga.

Those were not fights, those were spars. This is like counting Vegeta destroying robots in the gravity room.

In which world was Bergamo a spar? They were told to not hold back at all, killing was alowed and Goku even used the Kaioken.

That wasn't suppose to be bolded.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta fanboys just won't let the NEP go and fail to realize that it could be misleading. You also see Goku laughing as he's dodging Jiren's blows. Vegeta's hits look like they didn't do shit to Jiren at all so the whole "hurr durr Vegeta is stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku" delusion is pretty much dead. Jiren is holding back like crazy. They were clear when they said Vegeta gets his ass kicked by Jiren without putting up a real fight and then a full power SSB Goku took over by himself. Vegeta still being in doesn't mean much since he's likely being set up to have his "cool moment" by trying to stall Jiren alone while Goku tries to unleash UI again. So like the Kid Buu fight, he'll just get his ass kicked long enough for Goku to utilize his secret power.

Oh, so the Goku fanboys are SO desperate because they do not want Vegeta to be any stronger than the Blue KK x20 (so they go into this state of denial).

Goku is saying something to Jiren when he was laughing, he may just be excited, that does not mean anything. After all, in the preview we saw that he hits no blow (even trying) and is shown him kneeling watching Vegeta fight and jiren
Jiren also does not seem to make any effort while facing Goku.

Funny that you speak not to trust the preview of EP 122, but you're bragging about a synopsis that has already been wrong several times, and the concept of "good fight" is very relative.
The same synopsis that said that Kefla would be stronger than Goku SSB on EP 115 saying that '' her attacks were more intense than Goku's '', and we saw just the opposite (not to mention mistakes like '' Piccolo slipped out of the arena '' and '' Kuririn was disqualified '').

But that's it, fans like to be fooled by previews and synopses, but of course, that they always take the most convenient part and then get frustrated.

Incidentally, in the manga it is said that Goku '' completed '' the SSB. The term '' '完成' 'which means to complete was not used at any time in the synopsis.
Just to complete, in the synopsis of EP 124 it is said that Goku and Vegeta are fighting TOGETHER and can barely hit Jiren.

So, to your frustration, Goku will not face Jiren alone

Lets be honest here. Even if Vegeta does do better than Goku and Hit, if he gets trashed harder than Goku and Hit, does it really add up?


Neither Goku nor Hit were ever injured, Goku was just tired.

Honestly, I do not care if he is '' destroyed '' more than Goku and Hitto.
I want to see Vegeta finally demonstrate an evolution in relation to his power and perform well against an enemy far stronger than him (usually he only serves as a ladder and has no chance).
That's why I hope to see him perform better than Goku and Hitto.

And even if he is destroyed, he will still continue fighting with Goku against Jiren.
That is, it will not be eliminated, which shows that it will still have importance in the next episodes

[Totamo]

Oh, so the Goku fanboys are SO desperate because they do not want Vegeta to be any stronger than the Blue KK x20 (so they go into this state of denial).

Goku is saying something to Jiren when he was laughing, he may just be excited, that does not mean anything. After all, in the preview we saw that he hits no blow (even trying) and is shown him kneeling watching Vegeta fight and jiren
Jiren also does not seem to make any effort while facing Goku.

Funny that you speak not to trust the preview of EP 122, but you're bragging about a synopsis that has already been wrong several times, and the concept of "good fight" is very relative.
The same synopsis that said that Kefla would be stronger than Goku SSB on EP 115 saying that '' her attacks were more intense than Goku's '', and we saw just the opposite (not to mention mistakes like '' Piccolo slipped out of the arena '' and '' Kuririn was disqualified '').

But that's it, fans like to be fooled by previews and synopses, but of course, that they always take the most convenient part and then get frustrated.

Incidentally, in the manga it is said that Goku '' completed '' the SSB. The term '' '完成' 'which means to complete was not used at any time in the synopsis.
Just to complete, in the synopsis of EP 124 it is said that Goku and Vegeta are fighting TOGETHER and can barely hit Jiren.

So, to your frustration, Goku will not face Jiren alone

Lets be honest here. Even if Vegeta does do better than Goku and Hit, if he gets trashed harder than Goku and Hit, does it really add up?


Neither Goku nor Hit were ever injured, Goku was just tired.

Honestly, I do not care if he is '' destroyed '' more than Goku and Hitto.
I want to see Vegeta finally demonstrate an evolution in relation to his power and perform well against an enemy far stronger than him (usually he only serves as a ladder and has no chance).
That's why I hope to see him perform better than Goku and Hitto.

And even if he is destroyed, he will still continue fighting with Goku against Jiren.
That is, it will not be eliminated, which shows that it will still have importance in the next episodes

Even if Goku and Vegeta fight Jiren together, it doesn't mean he will be important. It just means he is there.


Do not get your hopes up then get mad at the show for it.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Lets be honest here. Even if Vegeta does do better than Goku and Hit, if he gets trashed harder than Goku and Hit, does it really add up?


Neither Goku nor Hit were ever injured, Goku was just tired.

Honestly, I do not care if he is '' destroyed '' more than Goku and Hitto.
I want to see Vegeta finally demonstrate an evolution in relation to his power and perform well against an enemy far stronger than him (usually he only serves as a ladder and has no chance).
That's why I hope to see him perform better than Goku and Hitto.

And even if he is destroyed, he will still continue fighting with Goku against Jiren.
That is, it will not be eliminated, which shows that it will still have importance in the next episodes

Even if Goku and Vegeta fight Jiren together, it doesn't mean he will be important. It just means he is there.


Do not get your hopes up then get mad at the show for it.

What I mean is that usually, when Vegeta confronts the main enemy, he is destroyed or humiliated, and then gets knocked out / unconscious while another person saves the day.

But this time, even being defeated by Jiren, he will not be eliminated and will continue to fight. With that, I assume he will still have some highlight in the tournament (regardless of which one).

But in relation to that, my hype is not even that big.
I know I should not, but my biggest hype is in relation to the fight between Vegeta and Jiren. Even if TOEI does not value Vegeta, I believe he will at least have a reasonable fight, even if he is defeated

[Noah]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite stupid for Gohan hesitate in finishing both 17 and Toppo, I mean is not like he's gonna kill them both, plus 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help their team, come on Gohan is time to grow some balls.

[alakazam^]

Does anyone have the cover for the 18th set ? I've looked everywhere for it but can't find it.

Here it is.

[BlueBasilisk]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite stupid for Gohan hesitate in finishing both 17 and Toppo, I mean is not like he's gonna kill them both, plus 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help their team, come on Gohan is time to grow some balls.

I wouldn't be surprised if this part of the summary proves to be misleading or outright wrong.

[kinisking]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite stupid for Gohan hesitate in finishing both 17 and Toppo, I mean is not like he's gonna kill them both, plus 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help their team, come on Gohan is time to grow some balls.

At this point of his life, it's just ooc. I think it might be better explained in the episode. Maybe he realizes Toppo is holding something back and if he tries to blast 17 and him off then it'll waste 17 for no reason .

[Ki Breaker]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite stupid for Gohan hesitate in finishing both 17 and Toppo, I mean is not like he's gonna kill them both, plus 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help their team, come on Gohan is time to grow some balls.

At this point of his life, it's just ooc. I think it might be better explained in the episode. Maybe he realizes Toppo is holding something back and if he tries to blast 17 and him off then it'll waste 17 for no reason .

It might be because he thinks 17 could be seriously wounded or possibly die if he blasts them with full power..

[Pannaliciour]

I don't know about you guys but I loved to see that Heroes trailer coming true. Would be so funny and badass at the same time to see Goku and Freeza against Jiren.

[Kagari]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite stupid for Gohan hesitate in finishing both 17 and Toppo, I mean is not like he's gonna kill them both, plus 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help their team, come on Gohan is time to grow some balls.

At this point of his life, it's just ooc. I think it might be better explained in the episode. Maybe he realizes Toppo is holding something back and if he tries to blast 17 and him off then it'll waste 17 for no reason .

I don't think it's out of character. Gohan's never had to attack/hurt his ally to win before that I can think of.

[ToshioWrites]

Dyspo is actually shitting on Freeza, thats a very surprising twist