Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

[Asura]

My problem is that there was no coordination between Toyotaro and TOEI as to what they wanted Jiren to be like. As a result, we now have an anime Jiren and a manga Jiren that may as well be two completely different characters. Characters in the past like Black and Zamasu have been slightly different in their respective anime/manga counterparts, but for the most part their personalities remained similar. Jiren is a complete 180 so far, though.

[WittyUsername]

I probably shouldn’t jump to conclusions until the arc is over, but so far, I’m not crazy about the approach that Toei has taken with Jiren. I think the Superman-esque character the manga is making him out to be is much more interesting than the generic badass that the anime has portrayed him as thus far.

[BWri]

It depends on your subjective standards for dragonball, for me yes the character is the prototypical strong silent type that poses no personality other then being strong, once another character is inevitably introduced on par with him his lack of personality will prevent him from being an iconic character in dragonball . But for the average dragonball super fan it really doesn't matter he could be interchangeable with an inanimate object that has the words "REALLY REALLY REALLY STRONG" embedded on it and it would create the same illusion of a "good" antagonist for them .

So it's yes and no.

This is pretty much how I feel. I think the only thing they succeeded in with Jiren is making his fight scenes not suck. Because the fight scenes are adequate, I'm interested in how the other characters will deal with him when he's fighting. But I never get behind a character just because they're strong and Jiren's strength hasn't even been explained so there is nothing to get invested in in the anime. I think knowing why he's so strong would add an element to the character or hearing about his heroic exploits. Something. But good catch on the "REALLY REALLY REALLY STRONG" comment. I feel that's the problem with the writing and fan interests sometimes and it's why I sympathize with those fans who really hate power levels. It gets in the way of diving deeper into the mysteries that the show already presented us.

[supersaiyanZero]

He is one of the worst written characters in recent memory and I am not just talking about Super. Even as a strong silent type he has been an incredibly one dimensional, utterly boring trope. I don't care if the last episode of this arc has some unbelievable characterization on his part, because every scene with him so far has been dreadful to sit through.

[wolflonnie]

Weirdly enough, at first I wanted him to be like he is in the manga, just pure justice boy. Trouble is, by the time that version debuted, I was more won over by the silent, intimidating bastard they've made him in the anime. It actually feels refreshing and unique compared to the over-the-top evil megalomaniac villains of previous arcs.

I like that unlike similar tournament villain archetypes like Tien, Pikkon or Hit, he hasn't gained any respect for Goku through fighting him. Most of those characters had a jaded attitude at first, but fighting this simple monkey man taught them to love again, or whatever. Jiren is just like "no, he's still a scrub". The best way to reconcile the manga/anime versions of him is to assume that, like anime Toppo, he's brought into the idea that Goku is a monster and holds him in nothing but contempt.

Completely agreed. I like this myself, it has become so annoying and predictable when almost every opponent starts to respect Goku.
I don't think that Jiren doesn't respect him because he's a monster, rather he simply doesn't care about him, other than a "somehow-stronger-than-the-rest" opponent. That's also sort of realistic: not every guy you meet takes you in sympathy.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yes, he is killing the ratings and the merchandise aspects seems to be lacking too.

Worst Antagonist of 2017 along with Acnologia, Big Mom and Overhaul

He is NOT killing the ratings nor the merchandise, stop trolling.

Bandai is gonna make more money from Dragon Ball than any other property but Jiren is killing the merchandise

What? Do you people check facts or just make shit up to push your agenda? Jiren is not "killing the merchandise" infact it is the total opposite ever since ToP started Jiren's popularity has shot through the roof in terms of merch, in an unprecedented act premium Bandai did a second shipment of this Jiren set in December because the initial shipment in September proved to be immensely popular to put that into perspective this never happened to the Future Trunks arc P Bandai figures and the set retails for ¥6,480 so yeah that is quite a bit of money not only to sell out from the initial shipment but a second one too, roughly looking $12,000 here assuming each shipment is limited to 100, that is a lot of f**king money! That is not all Jiren has been included in the BEST of UDM compilation and Jiren's WCF is the rarest of that set.

Yeah Jiren is totally "killing the merchandise"....

[MisteryOne]

My problem is that there was no coordination between Toyotaro and TOEI as to what they wanted Jiren to be like. As a result, we now have an anime Jiren and a manga Jiren that may as well be two completely different characters. Characters in the past like Black and Zamasu have been slightly different in their respective anime/manga counterparts, but for the most part their personalities remained similar. Jiren is a complete 180 so far, though.

How are Mirai Zamasu and specially Black just "slighly" different between the versions? Black is a different character completely, and Zamasu is just a whining walking meme in the anime. They even questioned each other in the manga while in the anime they never did (in fact, they became bros after twenty seconds...)

[puar]

the fact that jiren isnt speaking much is a plus not a minus. loudmouth charecters are boring

[Jigurashi]

He is NOT killing the ratings nor the merchandise, stop trolling.

Bandai is gonna make more money from Dragon Ball than any other property but Jiren is killing the merchandise

What? Do you people check facts or just make shit up to push your agenda? Jiren is not "killing the merchandise" infact it is the total opposite ever since ToP started Jiren's popularity has shot through the roof in terms of merch, in an unprecedented act premium Bandai did a second shipment of this Jiren set in December because the initial shipment in September proved to be immensely popular to put that into perspective this never happened to the Future Trunks arc P Bandai figures and the set retails for ¥6,480 so yeah that is quite a bit of money not only to sell out from the initial shipment but a second one too, roughly looking $12,000 here assuming each shipment is limited to 100, that is a lot of f**king money! That is not all Jiren has been included in the BEST of UDM compilation and Jiren's WCF is the rarest of that set.

Yeah Jiren is totally "killing the merchandise"....

It really is just Perucho saying things when he doesn't actually know what he's talking about again.

[perucho1990]

So i guess it means he will win the ToP, Toriyama, Toei and Bandai wouldnt agree in erasing someone that is "supposedly" popular
WCG figures dont mean much because Kale was there, she got nerfed and eliminated sooner than expected.

[Chuquita]

The arc's not over yet so I can't give a definitive yes or no.
Right now I still think he's boring, but that's subjective and I can't fully blame Toei anyway because as far as I know they didn't design his appearance. You can get by on an interesting personality (Toei's job) or an interesting appearance (Toriyama's job) and right now he doesn't have either imo, but that personality part could change. Toei keeps putting him off and putting him off, but now they have to actually do stuff with him so maybe the script writers can save him. Maybe they can make him interesting. Just gotta wait for next weekend and the following two months to find out.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So i guess it means he will win the ToP, Toriyama, Toei and Bandai wouldnt agree in erasing someone that is "supposedly" popular
WCG figures dont mean much because Kale was there, she got nerfed and eliminated sooner than expected.

I am not sure what Kale has to do with anything here also not sure what popularity has to do with him not being erased, considering Black doesn't exist anymore and he's still pretty popular to this day. And it's not "supposedly" since I literally just presented facts to the contrary. You as usual present things as facts without backing them you cannot prove that Jiren is "killing ratings" unless you live in Japan to survey people to get enough sample to scientifically conclude that people in Japan hate Jiren and not tuning into watch DBS instead you ignore the several factors that affect TV ratings and still believe ratings are affected by characters you don't like Jiren and you just gotta somehow push this agenda that your opinion is commonplace it's kind of ridiculous and finally I just proved that you're completely wrong when it comes to the merchandise aspect.

[Kenneth La Torre]

All i want is to see jiren smile. That would change my opinion about him a lot.

[perucho1990]

I am not sure what Kale has to do with anything here also not sure what popularity has to do with him not being erased, considering Black doesn't exist anymore and he's still pretty popular to this day. And it's not "supposedly" since I literally just presented facts to the contrary. You as usual present things as facts without backing them you cannot prove that Jiren is "killing ratings" unless you live in Japan to survey people to get enough sample to scientifically conclude that people in Japan hate Jiren and not tuning into watch DBS instead you ignore the several factors that affect TV ratings and still believe ratings are affected by characters you don't like Jiren and you just gotta somehow push this agenda that your opinion is commonplace it's kind of ridiculous and finally I just proved that you're completely wrong when it comes to the merchandise aspect.

The ratings have gone downhill since episode 116, and the excuses are "Kamen Rider and Sentai" even though ratings have been decent before the TV Special.

Doesn Japan have their own version of the nielsen box?

[Kataphrut]

All i want is to see jiren smile. That would change my opinion about him a lot.

I don't ever want to see him smile, what I want is for him to start becoming the butt of jokes.

Like, right now he's in the prime of his relevance and we're meant to take him seriously as a big threat. But once the arc wraps up and we (presumably) get back into the slice-of-life episodes, I want him to just start being used as this boring straight man to be made fun of. He'd be perfect for that, because he never smiles. As Krusty the Klown famously said, "a pie in the face is only funny if the sap's got dignity".

If nothing else, I look forward to it happening once he starts appearing in video games. Those always go a bit tongue-in-cheek.

[JazzMazz]

the fact that jiren isnt speaking much is a plus not a minus. loudmouth charecters are boring

Though I myself am not particularly fond of “loudmouth” characters, I fail to see how Jiren not demonstrating any sort of personality at all makes him less boring then characters that actually have some sort of personality to speak of.

[puar]

the fact that jiren isnt speaking much is a plus not a minus. loudmouth charecters are boring

Though I myself am not particularly fond of “loudmouth” characters, I fail to see how Jiren not demonstrating any sort of personality at all makes him less boring then characters that actually have some sort of personality to speak of.

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

[Baggie_Saiyan]

the fact that jiren isnt speaking much is a plus not a minus. loudmouth charecters are boring

Though I myself am not particularly fond of “loudmouth” characters, I fail to see how Jiren not demonstrating any sort of personality at all makes him less boring then characters that actually have some sort of personality to speak of.

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

You could express yourself a bit better but I agree with your overall sentiments, his supposed lack of personality his is personality.

Okay if you isolate the ToP on it own and ignore the rest of the series up until now, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta etc have not expressed any "personality", in fact very few characters have Freeza is just talking to himself have the time, Roshi wasn't showing his trademark perveness, we had a big growly monster in #121.

Jiren is a guy that is strong, aware of his strength and would rather observe than engage in any unnecessaryness, he is not a bad guy. Have we had an antagonist this smart before? When he battles he doesn't faff around and talk he just concentrates on getting the job done, he is a smarter and more effiecent Hit and Hit fell for the Goku trap and constantly disobeyed his GoD and ended up losing the U6 tournament.

[ToshioWrites]

I am not sure what Kale has to do with anything here also not sure what popularity has to do with him not being erased, considering Black doesn't exist anymore and he's still pretty popular to this day. And it's not "supposedly" since I literally just presented facts to the contrary. You as usual present things as facts without backing them you cannot prove that Jiren is "killing ratings" unless you live in Japan to survey people to get enough sample to scientifically conclude that people in Japan hate Jiren and not tuning into watch DBS instead you ignore the several factors that affect TV ratings and still believe ratings are affected by characters you don't like Jiren and you just gotta somehow push this agenda that your opinion is commonplace it's kind of ridiculous and finally I just proved that you're completely wrong when it comes to the merchandise aspect.

The ratings have gone downhill since episode 116, and the excuses are "Kamen Rider and Sentai" even though ratings have been decent before the TV Special.

Doesn Japan have their own version of the nielsen box?

Ratings for this arc have been down overall compared to last arc and thats not a Jiren problem. the special had a 3.5 live but just as many people watched it later not to mention the internet freaking crashed.

[The gr]

You could express yourself a bit better but I agree with your overall sentiments, his supposed lack of personality his is personality.

Okay if you isolate the ToP on it own and ignore the rest of the series up until now, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta etc have not expressed any "personality", in fact very few characters have Freeza is just talking to himself have the time, Roshi wasn't showing his trademark perveness, we had a big growly monster in #121.

Jiren is a guy that is strong, aware of his strength and would rather observe than engage in any unnecessaryness, he is not a bad guy. Have we had an antagonist this smart before? When he battles he doesn't faff around and talk he just concentrates on getting the job done, he is a smarter and more effiecent Hit and Hit fell for the Goku trap and constantly disobeyed his GoD and ended up losing the U6 tournament.

That is not a good excuse,is obvious an average viewer would watch the series from the beginning of DB or the first saga of Super and have a clue of these characters personalities.

Gohan,Piccolo and Vegeta have interaction with other characters as well characters moments,Jiren in the other hand have nothing of this,he barely interact with everyone around him or have a compelling arc around him,i couldn't care less about his wish because they keep potraying him as your typical Top characters.I will admit he does works as wall for our main heroes,he does a good job at that so i will give the staff credit for that.

What's wrong with Roshi in 105-107,his character was perfect in those episodes,they really did a good job showing his wise personality and got rid of his weakness,i liked that a character learned from their mistakes unlike Goku,Gohan and Vegeta who keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over.

I really find the No personality mentality dumb,Flat character is a more suitable word.