Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I think Freeza and Frost are similar to current Base Goku’s level. It doesn’t seem like there is a substancial difference between their powers, except for the golden form, which is one of the factors that make Freeza superior. Also, Base Goku is possibly implied to be even with final form Freeza in the recruitment episodes.

Well Champa said that Frost did not stand a chance against Frieza and at that point he should not be aware of the Golden form.

There was also Goku's comment that if Frost trained he would get stronger like Frieza did. Which could imply that he is not as strong as Frieza though that could be including the Golden form.

Champa most likely just sensed Freeza was hiding more power (Golden).

Even Kuririn did that in the Cell arc.

I also seriously doubt Frost is base tier. He not only got stronger but he's shown to be able to keep up with SS Vegeta. Being low SS tier seems like the best place to put him.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Freeza and Frost are similar to current Base Goku’s level. It doesn’t seem like there is a substancial difference between their powers, except for the golden form, which is one of the factors that make Freeza superior. Also, Base Goku is possibly implied to be even with final form Freeza in the recruitment episodes.

Well Champa said that Frost did not stand a chance against Frieza and at that point he should not be aware of the Golden form.

There was also Goku's comment that if Frost trained he would get stronger like Frieza did. Which could imply that he is not as strong as Frieza though that could be including the Golden form.

I remember that. Though, I think Champa isn’t talking entirely about power. Freeza is presumably more experienced at fighting. Frost is a cheater and his fighting style is a little hampered by the tournament rules, despite some basic cheap strategy here or there. Also, Champa didn’t seem surprised to see the golden form itself, which factors in my opinion.

I think Goku was talking about Freeza in general. Frost got a little better in his own style, but it was Freeza who was giving advices about how to properly use his power. In the end, Freeza used a weird tactic to get his confidence, so I think it wasn’t that simple to get rid of him.

[Bullza]

I don't think Champa would have known about Golden Frieza.

Back in the Universe 6 saga he didn't even know Base Goku and Vegeta were somewhat competent because he thought they were sluggish, not knowing they were weighed down by the suit.

He was very surprised when Goku turned Super Saiyan (both anime and manga). He was surprised when Vegeta turned Blue (manga). Beerus thought Super Saiyan 2 was the extent of Goku's power not knowing about Super Saiyan 3 and all the Gods seemed surprised when Goku went Blue at the Zen Exhibition.

I think maybe like with Krillin, they can sense the potential within a form and they know when people are holding back but at least in those examples they didn't know about the other forms they came out with so I would have just thought then that Champa thought that Frost stood no chance against Final Form Frieza.

[ZombieVito]

I think Freeza and Frost are similar to current Base Goku’s level. It doesn’t seem like there is a substancial difference between their powers, except for the golden form, which is one of the factors that make Freeza superior. Also, Base Goku is possibly implied to be even with final form Freeza in the recruitment episodes.

Well Champa said that Frost did not stand a chance against Frieza and at that point he should not be aware of the Golden form.

There was also Goku's comment that if Frost trained he would get stronger like Frieza did. Which could imply that he is not as strong as Frieza though that could be including the Golden form.

I remember that. Though, I think Champa isn’t talking entirely about power. Freeza is presumably more experienced at fighting. Frost is a cheater and his fighting style is a little hampered by the tournament rules, despite some basic cheap strategy here or there. Also, Champa didn’t seem surprised to see the golden form itself, which factors in my opinion.

I think Goku was talking about Freeza in general. Frost got a little better in his own style, but it was Freeza who was giving advices about how to properly use his power. In the end, Freeza used a weird tactic to get his confidence, so I think it wasn’t that simple to get rid of him.

This is what decides it for me. Freeza went through a lot of trouble to eliminate Frost for him to be the stronger on their true forms.

[Myzt0gun]

Just want to know if these Jiren, Anizara and Kefla can win against multiple aces from othe UNiverses

Kefla VS Ribrianne(U2), Katopesla(U3), Ganos(U4), Magetta(U6), Piccolo(U7), Bergamo(U9), Obuni(U10), Kahseral(U11)

Anizara VS Ribrianne(U2), Katopesla(U3), Ganos(U4), Magetta(U6), Piccolo(U7), Bergamo(U9), Obuni(U10), Kahseral(U11)

JIREN
VS
Giant Ribrianne(U2), Anizara(U3), Ganos and Damon(U4), Kefla(U6), Gohan Mystic (U7), Giant Bergamo(U9), Gamisaras and Damon(U4), Goku Black SSJ Rose (U10)

[Green]

The three effortlessly crush the opposition.

[TheUltimateNinja]

All three are capable of wiping the entire field in a 1v70. Kefla and Aniraza can't beat Goku or Jiren but besides those two the rest are easy.

[Myzt0gun]

All three are capable of wiping the entire field in a 1v70. Kefla and Aniraza can't beat Goku or Jiren but besides those two the rest are easy.

The three effortlessly crush the opposition.

Hehehe didn't realize it was overkill, just thought they might stand a chance because of their unique abilities (like Bergamo's absorption or Ribrianne's Love)
Now that i think about it, Only Obuni, Ribrianne and Love Girls, Monna, Trio De Dangers, Jimeze, are decent on the roster of U2, U4, U9 and U10

But do you agree with (They're in fullpower and full stamina, cause in their fight before Goku is weakened/tired)

Goku(SSG) = Kefla < Kefla(SSJ1) < Goku(SSB) < Vegeta(SSB) < Anizara < Kefla(SSJ2) < Goku(SSBKK) < Goku (SSBKKx20) < Jiren

[TheUltimateNinja]

All three are capable of wiping the entire field in a 1v70. Kefla and Aniraza can't beat Goku or Jiren but besides those two the rest are easy.

The three effortlessly crush the opposition.

Hehehe didn't realize it was overkill, just thought they might stand a chance because of their unique abilities (like Bergamo's absorption or Ribrianne's Love)
Now that i think about it, Only Obuni, Ribrianne and Love Girls, Monna, Trio De Dangers, Jimeze, are decent on the roster of U2, U4, U9 and U10

But do you agree with (They're in fullpower and full stamina, cause in their fight before Goku is weakened/tired)

Goku(SSG) = Kefla < Kefla(SSJ1) < Goku(SSB) < Vegeta(SSB) < Anizara < Kefla(SSJ2) < Goku(SSBKK) < Goku (SSBKKx20) < Jiren

Not quite, Kefla wasn't fighting seriously against SSBlue Goku. Whis confirms that her true power is comparable to the Genki Dama.

So it would be more like:
SSGod Goku < Kefla < SSB Goku ? SSB Vegeta < SSBKK Goku < SSBKKx20 Goku < Genki Dama ~ SSJ Kefla < UI Goku (TV Special) < SSJ2 Kefla = UI Goku < SSJ2 Kefla (Final attack) < Jiren

Aniraza's problematic to place, but he should be around Kaioken x3-4 SSBlue Goku level.

[buutenks]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noah]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it took you so long, mate?

[buutenks]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it took you so long, mate?

I was hoping Toei would get their shit together. But nope, seems they prefer flashy stuff vs common sense.

But ye, how could i even have hope when they made GT and ssj3 Goku surviving vs Buutenks? Lol.

Now i just stick to the Super manga to know where charaters stand where. Atleast Toyotaru is trying to make sense of things.

[ZombieVito]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it took you so long, mate?

I was hoping Toei would get their shit together. But nope, seems they prefer flashy stuff vs common sense.

But ye, how could i even have hope when they made GT and ssj3 Goku surviving vs Buutenks? Lol.

Now i just stick to the Super manga to know where charaters stand where. Atleast Toyotaru is trying to make sense of things.

It was pretty obvious Buutenks was toying with him...

[Bullza]

I'm reading Volume 2 of the manga as I had it for Christmas and there was a couple things I wanted to point out.

1. In the translated subs, we were given the impression that Vegeta turning Super Saiyan Blue back to back was what caused him to lose over 90% of his energy. However Goku says to Vegeta that he could have beat Hit had he saved more energy and then asks why he turned Super Saiyan against Cabba.

So it seems that he just happened to use up too much power beforehand as opposed to turning Blue back to back. Makes sense as he did fight Frost, Magetta and Cabba back to back, transforming into Super Saiyan three separate times.

2. Whis says Hit can only stop those at or below his level. He did stop Blue Vegeta while at a level when he was on par with Super Saiyan Goku.

So was Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta only Super Saiyan level at that time?

Hit then powered up, he was able to stop Super Saiyan God but not Super Saiyan Blue so in the manga he was inbetween those two levels.

Was the comment about him only being able to stop people at or below his level said in the anime because there he was able to stop Blue Kaioken x10 Goku.

[JazzMazz]

Was the comment about him only being able to stop people at or below his level said in the anime because there he was able to stop Blue Kaioken x10 Goku.

The line is never specifically stated in the anime, however, it is implied that Goku had a reached a thresh hold using his Kaio Ken where he was acting "ahead" of Hits time skip.

Take that how you want to.

[Bullza]

The line is never specifically stated in the anime, however, it is implied that Goku had a reached a thresh hold using his Kaio Ken where he was acting "ahead" of Hits time skip.

Take that how you want to.

I remember that because he was moving while in the Time Skip and said he was beyond his Time Skip but then in the next episode after he'd extended his Time Skip he was able to freeze him.

So I don't know why Goku could move through 0.5 seconds of frozen time but then couldn't for a longer period but that's how it seemed to be.

By manga rules it would have meant Hit was comparable in power to Blue Goku Kaioken x10 but I don't think he was supposed to have grown any stronger in the fight, just he extended his Time Skip so maybe it's different.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Just want to know if these Jiren, Anizara and Kefla can win against multiple aces from othe UNiverses

Kefla VS Ribrianne(U2), Katopesla(U3), Ganos(U4), Magetta(U6), Piccolo(U7), Bergamo(U9), Obuni(U10), Kahseral(U11)

Anizara VS Ribrianne(U2), Katopesla(U3), Ganos(U4), Magetta(U6), Piccolo(U7), Bergamo(U9), Obuni(U10), Kahseral(U11)

JIREN
VS
Giant Ribrianne(U2), Anizara(U3), Ganos and Damon(U4), Kefla(U6), Gohan Mystic (U7), Giant Bergamo(U9), Gamisaras and Damon(U4), Goku Black SSJ Rose (U10)

Kefla and aniraza can solo every other universe at once (besides UI goku and Jiren)

Jiren is stronger than a god of destruction, so the answer is a no brainer.

[dragon boss z]

Well Champa said that Frost did not stand a chance against Frieza and at that point he should not be aware of the Golden form.

There was also Goku's comment that if Frost trained he would get stronger like Frieza did. Which could imply that he is not as strong as Frieza though that could be including the Golden form.

I remember that. Though, I think Champa isn’t talking entirely about power. Freeza is presumably more experienced at fighting. Frost is a cheater and his fighting style is a little hampered by the tournament rules, despite some basic cheap strategy here or there. Also, Champa didn’t seem surprised to see the golden form itself, which factors in my opinion.

I think Goku was talking about Freeza in general. Frost got a little better in his own style, but it was Freeza who was giving advices about how to properly use his power. In the end, Freeza used a weird tactic to get his confidence, so I think it wasn’t that simple to get rid of him.

This is what decides it for me. Freeza went through a lot of trouble to eliminate Frost for him to be the stronger on their true forms.

It's because Frost is tricky. Even SSB Vegeta let him get away.

[Rally 07]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

While it is a pretty inconsistent mess, it's simply the really bad writing. Let's be honest that the writing staff seem like they really don't know much concerning the power scaling and how to write it in the anime. Overall, don't hate on the scaling, rather hate the writing for the scaling.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Alright, folks, just a few more days until the next episode airs.

Based on some of the new images released by Toei, it seems that everyone is gonna be involved in episode 122. Obviously, Jiren is taking on Goku and Vegeta, and that's gonna be the primary power-scaling debate. I'm sure people will be divided over it no matter how well things are shown/explained.

However, we also see that Ultimate Gohan, 17, and Final Form Freeza seem to be doing their own things in this episode. If predictions are accurate, we may see Toppo taking on Ultimate Gohan and maybe also 17, which MIGHT clarify some power-scaling confusions. Maybe.

There's also Freeza who seems to be taking on Dyspo, so we'll see how well things measure up there.

Get ready, folks, because it's gonna get crazy no matter what happens.