Do you think Super has divided the fandom?

[Grimlock]

So I saw the last jedi yesterday and I now understand why the star wars fandom is as divided it as it is. The film goes against the fandom's expectations, changes things about characters that people liked and things you thought the franchise wouldn't go did.



So now I'm wondering has super done the same. Do you think so

I think the only instances of things we have in Dragon Ball nowadays that divided the fanbase were Dragon Ball Minus, Movie 15 and Future Trunks saga's ending.

You either like it a lot or don't like at all those works. Never seen anyone on the "I'm indifferent" with those ones.

[Lord Beerus]

No. There have always been subjects within Dragon Ball that have had supporters, detractors and those who don't really care that much for it since, really, forever. Super just brings more new subjects to the table to discuss. But before it's inception, certain parts of the fandom have been "divided" on many aspects of Dragon Ball.

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

[Rebel Instinct]

No. There have always been subjects within Dragon Ball that have had supporters, detractors and those who don't really care that much for it since, really, forever. Super just brings more new subjects to the table to discuss. But before it's inception, certain parts of the fandom have been "divided" on many aspects of Dragon Ball.

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

Sorry if I took the wind out of your sails there! I just had a few things on my mind regarding the topic I wanted to put out there.

[VintageSaiyan]

It has plummeted the series into barely acceptable levels if mediocrity on all fronts from writing, character design, rushed production schedule, etc. So yes I would assume it has divided the fandom.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Oh no, nothing Super has done has divided the fandom like The Last Jedi did. The Star Wars fandom is literally split across the middle in two because of the movie

In my opinion, most of the Future Trunks arc (as in, all except the last 3 episodes) and Ultra Instinct, while not enough to save Super as a whole, were heavily praised from what I saw. Those were reminiscent of the DBZ days where many were just waiting for more.

If something as a whole was good, chances are many thought it was good, like the two examples above. If it was bad (and that’s a lot of Super - THAT’s subjective, I know), chances are a lot thought it was bad. Like Episode 5 for its art. Or episode 24 for its art AND animation.

I think the closest thing to a “division” in the fanbase caused by Super is the current Tournament of Power arc.

[Brettjr25]

As someone that was a part of the very old fandom ( I actually remember the old version of this site and the temple o trunks plus the best place to hang out, Planet Namek.) I dont really enjoy Super on the level of db and dbz. Dbs is a fun visit to old friends but I dont watch it for plot at all. It seems that the Super community holds it in such high regard now that they are always quick to claim how this or that or whatever is better than Z and I can't disagree more. Since I derive no pleasure with arguing with strangers on the internet and things get pretty redundant, I isolated myself from the new fandom and just chill and when I want to discuss somethings on places I go to, I just do it through others and try not to get involved.

And YES I HATED episode 66. Its everything wrong with Super. Just doing cool things for the sake of cool with no regard to plot or logic. I dont see how people can feel invested knowing that the writers can do anything at any moment without keeping things consistent. Why care about Zeno when Bra can one shot him in the next eps if its cool? Why not just give Vegeta Kaioken to close the gap between Goku without having him train and learn it. I dont see how someone can be ok with it and then nitpick about what aliens are in what universe.

Whatever though. To answer your question the only way I can, Super divided me from some of the fanbase.

[precita]

Super is the, "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" of the Dragonball fandom. Some people just can't handle change or the series going in a new direction, new lore changes, or the handling of certain characters.

[majinwarman]

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

I'm not the person you where originally responding to, so forgive me for butting in.

Honestly, I feel like the people who say they haven't noticed any change in the amount of toxicity and in-fighting in the community since Super debuted are either lying to themselves or otherwise haven't been paying much attention/don't care enough to notice (that or they're sitting comfortably on the "winning side" of most arguments and don't see the fighting as anything consequential from their perspective). Whether you love or hate Super or lie somewhere in between, you'd be hard-pressed to not notice all the arguing going on all around the internet. Just saying,"Oh, the fanbase always argues about one thing or another, so it's nothing new." are oversimplifying the state of the community and making it seem like everything's all hunky-dory. There are degrees to these sorts of things and not all divisions are made equal. There's always the regular bickering that every fanbase has, but I feel like the hardcore Dragon Ball fandom post-Super is more divided than ever.

First, you have those who are split over the differences between Z and Super and the general direction of Super in and of itself. Then, you have the split between the anime and manga adaptations of Super with a perpetually ongoing petty civil war between those who prefer one or the other. Going even further, there are all the divided opinions between the individual minutia of each of the adaptations like transformations, power scaling, power-ups, internal consistency and the like, and all of this is piled up on top of all the preexisting divisions within the community. What we're left with is a community that's split into so many different camps that everyone is bent out of shape and arguing about something no matter where you go. For better and worse (yes, both) Super has set off a metaphorical H-bomb in the DB community.

It really doesn't help that so many people are zealously staunch in the opinions they have and are almost completely intolerant of opposing sentiments (which isn't exclusive to the DB fandom mind you, but a significant problem nonetheless). It isn't just one-sided antagonism either, the extremes really do come from both sides. You either hate Super and feel like it's completely ruining the franchise or you love Super and anyone who doesn't feel the same way is an ignorant hater literally worse than Devil Hitler™. You either idolize the anime and see the manga as a pathetic trash rag written by a talentless hack or see the manga as a beacon of hope for the series going forward and feel like the writers at Toei are incompetent boobs bent on destroying the series. The people who straddle the line somewhere in the middle have very little wiggle room in voicing their opinions because there's such an "Us vs. Them' mentality anymore. Watching Dragon Ball discussions can sometimes feel like observing political debates in sheer polarization and intensity. It isn't healthy for the community in the slightest and it can make simply engaging with the community unpleasant and exhausting. There's healthy debate and then there's bitter tribalism and spite. Maybe it's just my own individual cross section of experiences making me think this, but I feel like the community's been sliding into the latter end of the spectrum at an alarming rate.

Your statements are exactly what I'm worried about. The community is having these mini-wars among themselves and not truly loving the Dragon ball franchise. It has become a problem that has started back when Battle of the Gods came out and has increased when Super came out. I just want to have meaningful conversations with people and not have to defend why I'm watching Super or having to tell people that Super isn't getting cancelled. It is just ridiculous and I have to agree with your statements.

[majinwarman]

No. There have always been subjects within Dragon Ball that have had supporters, detractors and those who don't really care that much for it since, really, forever. Super just brings more new subjects to the table to discuss. But before it's inception, certain parts of the fandom have been "divided" on many aspects of Dragon Ball.

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

I understand that but I'm talking about the environment around the show. New or old fans are fighting over the show. People are being forced into sides about Super. I was reading about someone having a question about Super and next comment was bashing Super. People can't even try to learn about show or give their opinions without being called hater or fanboy. It's just ridiculous at this point.

[majinwarman]

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

Sorry if I took the wind out of your sails there! I just had a few things on my mind regarding the topic I wanted to put out there.

You are fine man. Please continue and tell people about your opinions. Everyone here are willing to hear you out. Don't hesitate next time!

[CJStriker_CBR]

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

I understand that but I'm talking about the environment around the show. New or old fans are fighting over the show. People are being forced into sides about Super. I was reading about someone having a question about Super and next comment was bashing Super. People can't even try to learn about show or give their opinions without being called hater or fanboy. It's just ridiculous at this point.

I think this is a real phenomenon around the show and I think it gets bad when it comes to both New and Old Fans wanting to get back into the show mainly cause of interest or liking of certain characters.

I speak of My Fandom of Ribrianne allot and know the dislike of her in areas of the net, but what many tend to overlook are that some fans I have both spoken to and read comments of simply saying they Like her character but feel they have to make reference to the Hate for her to others when either posting a comment or a picture of her or another U2 character in a way to downscale the reactions they may get from fans in disliking them or being afraid to post due to reactions of hate they may get from fans over liking Ribrianne or other U2 characters.

I speak to these fans as often as I can to not be afraid and to Enjoy their fandom, don't let groups of fans that dislike the character you want to like hold you back. I am use to this for years in fandoms such hostilities, but for new and returning fans it can be a great and scary turnoff.

I am sure this is the same with the Kale and Caulifla and other characters too, but a fandom needs to remember that while one has to right to dislike a character they need to also understand fans have different tastes and likes in characters and should at the very least be inviting as a community to those tastes and likes. Otherwise we are risking turning away fans that just want to get into Super simply as a start in liking a Character(s), but feeling the hostile environment is to much to do that.

This is mainly bad in places like YouTube when I say this most of all.

[Totamo]

It has plummeted the series into barely acceptable levels if mediocrity on all fronts from writing, character design, rushed production schedule, etc. So yes I would assume it has divided the fandom.

That doesn't answer my question like others have.

bad quality don't divide fandoms, have you seen steven universe?

[puar]

i prefer a divided fandom then not a series at all. i think dragon ball super is mostly a sucusess. take out the 28 episodes of movie retelings and you got a decent animated. decent wrriten and full of gimicks and action packed series.

[Rebel Instinct]

As someone that was a part of the very old fandom ( I actually remember the old version of this site and the temple o trunks plus the best place to hang out, Planet Namek.) I dont really enjoy Super on the level of db and dbz. Dbs is a fun visit to old friends but I dont watch it for plot at all. It seems that the Super community holds it in such high regard now that they are always quick to claim how this or that or whatever is better than Z and I can't disagree more. Since I derive no pleasure with arguing with strangers on the internet and things get pretty redundant, I isolated myself from the new fandom and just chill and when I want to discuss somethings on places I go to, I just do it through others and try not to get involved.

And YES I HATED episode 66. Its everything wrong with Super. Just doing cool things for the sake of cool with no regard to plot or logic. I dont see how people can feel invested knowing that the writers can do anything at any moment without keeping things consistent. Why care about Zeno when Bra can one shot him in the next eps if its cool? Why not just give Vegeta Kaioken to close the gap between Goku without having him train and learn it. I dont see how someone can be ok with it and then nitpick about what aliens are in what universe.

Whatever though. To answer your question the only way I can, Super divided me from some of the fanbase.

Truly a kindred spirit...

I've been a fan of Dragon Ball since it ran on Toonami back in the 90s (not that one's age or "pedigree" necessarily matters when it comes to judging entertainment) and have re-watched the series several times between then and now and I'm even currently in the middle of finishing up another go 'round of Kai right now. I share very similar sentiments to yours and it can get so very frustrating reading comments and interacting with other fans online. I try to stay out of it as best I can, but curiosity and the desire to stay up to date keeps me hanging around. Some of the things I end up seeing people say about Super (and about each other) baffle me to no end and I'll feel compelled to say something to either get my thoughts out or vent my frustrations.

Super as a series/continuation of Dragon Ball is frustrating enough on its own with its myriad issues and frequently obtuse writing direction, but the thing that really grinds my gears is how the people of the online community treat one another over it. It's painful seeing how condescending and spiteful people get about Super. Common courtesy typically means squat and it seems like most people are just chomping at the bit to lay into somebody over the littlest thing then sit back feeling smug. I've even noticed myself taking sides over things I' used to not feel strongly about before simply because of the sheer amount of insults thrown one way or the other. That's crazy and it's the kind of divide that Super has brought out of the fandom and I don't feel like Super as a series is worth so much fanatical devotion.

Believe me, I was as happy as the next guy to have the series come back and see all the old characters get up to shenanigans again and there's been some neat stuff here and there, but where exactly should we draw a line on how much that excitement and childhood attachment gives leeway to the overall quality and writing? How much is the fandom willing to put up with just to have more new Dragon Ball content and is it worth having a community that's constantly at each other's throats? My line was at episodes 66 and 67, but the community has been turbulent since episode 5.

[Guesswhoo]

If we talk about whether or not DBS is a good or a bad continuation of canon then yes it definitely divided the fandom. However the DB fanbase was already divided long before Super or the 2 movie.

[majinwarman]

Rebel Instinct beat me to the punch.

Super has undoubtedly brought out old fans from the woodwork and new fans who either are new to Dragon Ball (Yes, they exist) or are similar with some aspects of it. And with how much Super has taken its own "unique" way of telling a Dragon Ball story, as well the different mediums it produces its core narrative in, you have many fans taking many different stances about several different aspects. Whether it be characterizations, power-scaling, consistency of internal logic, transformations, or visuals.

I understand that but I'm talking about the environment around the show. New or old fans are fighting over the show. People are being forced into sides about Super. I was reading about someone having a question about Super and next comment was bashing Super. People can't even try to learn about show or give their opinions without being called hater or fanboy. It's just ridiculous at this point.

I think this is a real phenomenon around the show and I think it gets bad when it comes to both New and Old Fans wanting to get back into the show mainly cause of interest or liking of certain characters.

I speak of My Fandom of Ribrianne allot and know the dislike of her in areas of the net, but what many tend to overlook are that some fans I have both spoken to and read comments of simply saying they Like her character but feel they have to make reference to the Hate for her to others when either posting a comment or a picture of her or another U2 character in a way to downscale the reactions they may get from fans in disliking them or being afraid to post due to reactions of hate they may get from fans over liking Ribrianne or other U2 characters.

I speak to these fans as often as I can to not be afraid and to Enjoy their fandom, don't let groups of fans that dislike the character you want to like hold you back. I am use to this for years in fandoms such hostilities, but for new and returning fans it can be a great and scary turnoff.

I am sure this is the same with the Kale and Caulifla and other characters too, but a fandom needs to remember that while one has to right to dislike a character they need to also understand fans have different tastes and likes in characters and should at the very least be inviting as a community to those tastes and likes. Otherwise we are risking turning away fans that just want to get into Super simply as a start in liking a Character(s), but feeling the hostile environment is to much to do that.

This is mainly bad in places like YouTube when I say this most of all.

Thank you for saying those words and I'm glad to see a fan who is happy to share their opinion no matter the hate.

[Nekis13]

"Are you a DBZ fan?"
- "Yes."
"How long have you been watching?"
- "Ever since Toonami."
"But you like Kale and Caulifa???"
- "Yes."
"That's weird because they're the most annoying characters in DBS."
- "So? I like them."
"okay then...."

I think this interaction is everything you need to know about the fanbase in it's current state. It's comparable with other fanbases like Sonic where having this opinion means you're somehow better than the other person. Like the whole "omg i read the manga as it was coming out and no, there's no Z manga you casual fanboy" you may see around (Not a jab at anyone here.) It's really just elitism some from both sides. Think what you will of Super but it's impact in the fanbase has been both good and bad.

EDIT:
I think another thing to note is something you may have also seen around. Things like "oh yeah if you like Super that means you like whatever Toei throws at you and you're what's wrong with the fanbase." Definitely do not help.

Alternatively: "wow Z-tard go away and take off your nostalgia glasses you're not adding anything to the conversation you hater."

[CJStriker_CBR]

I understand that but I'm talking about the environment around the show. New or old fans are fighting over the show. People are being forced into sides about Super. I was reading about someone having a question about Super and next comment was bashing Super. People can't even try to learn about show or give their opinions without being called hater or fanboy. It's just ridiculous at this point.

I think this is a real phenomenon around the show and I think it gets bad when it comes to both New and Old Fans wanting to get back into the show mainly cause of interest or liking of certain characters.

I speak of My Fandom of Ribrianne allot and know the dislike of her in areas of the net, but what many tend to overlook are that some fans I have both spoken to and read comments of simply saying they Like her character but feel they have to make reference to the Hate for her to others when either posting a comment or a picture of her or another U2 character in a way to downscale the reactions they may get from fans in disliking them or being afraid to post due to reactions of hate they may get from fans over liking Ribrianne or other U2 characters.

I speak to these fans as often as I can to not be afraid and to Enjoy their fandom, don't let groups of fans that dislike the character you want to like hold you back. I am use to this for years in fandoms such hostilities, but for new and returning fans it can be a great and scary turnoff.

I am sure this is the same with the Kale and Caulifla and other characters too, but a fandom needs to remember that while one has to right to dislike a character they need to also understand fans have different tastes and likes in characters and should at the very least be inviting as a community to those tastes and likes. Otherwise we are risking turning away fans that just want to get into Super simply as a start in liking a Character(s), but feeling the hostile environment is to much to do that.

This is mainly bad in places like YouTube when I say this most of all.

Thank you for saying those words and I'm glad to see a fan who is happy to share their opinion no matter the hate.

Very Much Appreciated and Honored for those supportive words Majinwarman, Thank You. I am a Veteran of many ears posting, so I have seen allot and I am use to it and far worst then what DB has shown me. But most of My concern is for the Fans both New and Old that want to Like and become a Fans of Characters like Ribrianne and others, yet they get either bullied cause of liking them or get scared from the over harsh and strange reactions to their characters.

For me personally one of the Main Reasons I am Here on Kanzenshuu and I post places on topics about Ribrianne is to express to fans that Want to be fans of Ribrianne but may hold back their fandom cause of the environment, to not be afraid and to be proud of your fandom and never let conflict or harsh ways that some fans react to hold you back. You have other fans that will support you and enjoy what you enjoy, that you have a right like everyone else to like who you choose too.