Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

I gave up on trying to scale the anime. It is pure madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

While it is a pretty inconsistent mess, it's simply the really bad writing. Let's be honest that the writing staff seem like they really don't know much concerning the power scaling and how to write it in the anime. Overall, don't hate on the scaling, rather hate the writing for the scaling.

I still enjoy watching Super, it is fun to watch. I simply ignore the scaling.

Alright, folks, just a few more days until the next episode airs.

Based on some of the new images released by Toei, it seems that everyone is gonna be involved in episode 122. Obviously, Jiren is taking on Goku and Vegeta, and that's gonna be the primary power-scaling debate. I'm sure people will be divided over it no matter how well things are shown/explained.

However, we also see that Ultimate Gohan, 17, and Final Form Freeza seem to be doing their own things in this episode. If predictions are accurate, we may see Toppo taking on Ultimate Gohan and maybe also 17, which MIGHT clarify some power-scaling confusions. Maybe.

There's also Freeza who seems to be taking on Dyspo, so we'll see how well things measure up there.

Get ready, folks, because it's gonna get crazy no matter what happens.

The fans will divide in 2, one side vegeta is above kkx20 Goku, maybe even initial UI, on one side Jiren is just being suppressed so Vegeta isnt as strong as kkx20 Goku. The raging and saltiness will be high hehe.

[SuperDragoon]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

It's mostly due to how Future Trunks managed to gain the upper hand against him that one time, as well as him not often directly trading blows with the other SSB-level fighters.

I'm not sure which interpretation to believe myself, since it could easily go either way.

I'd say, just to be on the safe side, that he's stronger than his present counterpart, enough that SS2 Goku/Vegeta/Future Trunks wouldn't be stronger than him like they are with regards to Present Zamasu.

[Black Hawk]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

My personal opinion is that anime Future Zamas is both no stronger than his present counterpart and, in terms of power scaling, between SSJ1 and SSJ2. We know what Kaiōshin have insanely long lifespans, and North Kaiō is also a good example of how long a Kaiō can stick around (even though he's dead), so I'd expect that Zamas has existed for quite some time; given the Kaiō lifespan, I'd expect that a year, with or without training, would be insignificant to Zamas' power and abilities.

[ZombieVito]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

He should be stronger than his past self but not by much.

Either Zamasu is weaker than SS2 Future Trunks.

[Bullza]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

I don't think there is a consensus, there's those who think he's Super Saiyan 2 and those who think he's Super Saiyan Blue level.

I personally think the former is true because there's more evidence for it and it is that way for definite in the manga. I don't think there's any significant difference between Present and Future Zamasu nor logically should there be.

[ZombieVito]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

I don't think there is a consensus, there's those who think he's Super Saiyan 2 and those who think he's Super Saiyan Blue level.

I personally think the former is true because there's more evidence for it and it is that way for definite in the manga. I don't think there's any significant difference between Present and Future Zamasu nor logically should there be.

Well, if Future Zamasu was Blue level then Fused Zamasu on his initial appearance would have to be on Vegeto Blue level and that's obviously not the case.

[Miracles]

People who think Zamasu is Blue level need to rewatch the anime. The guy saw death with almost every blow.

[Boku no Hitto]

People who think Zamasu is Blue level need to rewatch the anime. The guy saw death with almost every blow.

Seriously, THIS! The second time they fought goku blew his head off as a first attack! Zamasu was a tank through and through.

[Lord Frieza]

But on the same note Future Zamasu is pretty powerful since he was able to fight alongside Black, Goku, Vegeta and Trunks.

Also you must factor in that due to his immortality, Zamasu dose not focus on protecting himself at all. So as with Goku when he lets his guard down, he suffers physical damage from he could have avoided but in his case he knowingly dose so because he cannot die. This as a whole makes it hard to work out exactly were he stands in terms of power.

But regardless as the arc progresses you'll notice he becomes more and more reliant on his immortality and Black's power since he lacks any form of saiyan hax.

[SupremeKai25]

Regarding Future Zamasu, he is obviously stronger than his Present counterpart. Present Zamasu was easily defeated by SSJ2 Goku, whereas Future Zamasu showed the ability to fight toe-to-toe with SSB Goku, albeit for a short time. Goku himself aknowledges that Future Zamasu is different than Present Zamasu, i.e. he's stronger. This isn't surprising. Future Zamasu trained for more years than Present Zamasu, so obviously he was more powerful (and he was also a fighting prodigy and genius like his Present counterpart). He could've become even stronger if he had truly wanted to, but he saw no need to continue his godly training. Not with immortality and a supremely powerful partner.

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

I would say he is SSB level. If Future Zamasu were SSJ2 level, then he would have been annihlated by SSB Goku or SSB Vegeta. Instead, in episode 56, but even in 62 and 64, he was seen fighting toe-to-toe with SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta. And while it is true that Future Zamasu was damaged several times by his opponents (even Trunks), please remember that that was exactly what he wanted. He remarks several times that he adores his immortal body, and is filled with joy whenever he is critically injured by an enemy attack. He -wanted- to be damaged. And immortality is what made him an extremely dangerous foe, as he could go all out without fear of getting killed.

[Lord Beerus]

What's the consensus here of how powerful Anime Future Zamasu is? Is he SSJ2 or SSB level? For the longest time I assumed he was Blue level due to his fights with SSB Goku so I'm surprised that people think he's no stronger than Present Zamasu.

He's SSJB level. He goes toe-to-toe with SSJB tier characters (Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks) and it's usually either an even contest, he (Future Zamasu) gets caught off guard and taken down, or he gain the advantage and wins conclusively.

[Miracles]

People who think Zamasu is Blue level need to rewatch the anime. The guy saw death with almost every blow.

Seriously, THIS! The second time they fought goku blew his head off as a first attack! Zamasu was a tank through and through.

SSJ Trunks even spanked Zamasu's curve TWICE in one round. Only his immortality saved him.
Zamasu isn't Blue level. Both mediums make that clear.

[ZombieVito]

Again, if Future Zamasu was Blue level then initial Fused Zamasu would be Vegetto Blue level and that is not what happened. Also SS2 Future Trunks overpowered Future Zamasu twice.

And Corrupted Zamasu is Vegetto Blue level since he managed to damage the latter and put him on the ground.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Again, if Future Zamasu was Blue level then initial Fused Zamasu would be Vegetto Blue level and that is not what happened. Also SS2 Future Trunks overpowered Future Zamasu twice.

And Corrupted Zamasu is Vegetto Blue level since he managed to damage the latter and put him on the ground.

Well, there is the whole thing around the weird nature of Potara Fusion.

When Shin and Kibito fused, the results were.... well, let's just say it wasn't what anyone was expecting. Vegito, however, ended up being crazy strong.

The same logic could be applied to Merged Zamasu. It could be that the Potara Fusion of Goku Black and Future Zamasu wasn't as perfect as Vegito was despite Merged Zamasu's gloating, so it wasn't as strong as it could've been, at least initially.

[ZombieVito]

Again, if Future Zamasu was Blue level then initial Fused Zamasu would be Vegetto Blue level and that is not what happened. Also SS2 Future Trunks overpowered Future Zamasu twice.

And Corrupted Zamasu is Vegetto Blue level since he managed to damage the latter and put him on the ground.

Well, there is the whole thing around the weird nature of Potara Fusion.

When Shin and Kibito fused, the results were.... well, let's just say it wasn't what anyone was expecting. Vegito, however, ended up being crazy strong.

The same logic could be applied to Merged Zamasu. It could be that the Potara Fusion of Goku Black and Future Zamasu wasn't as perfect as Vegito was despite Merged Zamasu's gloating, so it wasn't as strong as it could've been, at least initially.

Kibitoshin wasn't that strong because of Kibito. The power difference between the fused fighters matters.

Goku and Vegeta were equal so the effects of the fusion were way bigger.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Potara seems to have a powerful effect on Goku and vegeta, as for them the multiplier is power × power, while others dont seem to be like that. Kefla seems to be the same as vegito, as her base is stronger than a ssg. Other than that, for others is just a couple of times stronger than the individual. Why you may ask?... cause plot.

[Bullza]

Super Saiyan 2 Goku did easily beat Present Zamasu but to be fair Zamasu did say that when they fought he was distracted and could have done better.

I don't think he was even supposed to be as strong as Base Black which I think was supposed to be the pint of why he stole his body in the first place.

Black had power. Zamasu had immortality.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Potara seems to have a powerful effect on Goku and vegeta, as for them the multiplier is power × power, while others dont seem to be like that. Kefla seems to be the same as vegito, as her base is stronger than a ssg. Other than that, for others is just a couple of times stronger than the individual. Why you may ask?... cause plot.

The power x power thing doesn't even make any sense. That's like trying to multiply distance, it gives you a new quantity ie: length turns into area which is 2 dimensional.

But let's set that aside, the result still varies drastically based on the unit of measurement you use. For instance, let's use their kili measurement of 800. 800 x 800 gives you 640,000 kilis. Let's take a guess at their battle power and say it's around 50,000,000. 50,000,000 x 50,000,000 gives you 2.5 * 10^15, a much bigger boost than the one we got from using kilis.

We shouldn't be taking that line literally.

[DBZ Macky]

Potara seems to have a powerful effect on Goku and vegeta, as for them the multiplier is power × power, while others dont seem to be like that. Kefla seems to be the same as vegito, as her base is stronger than a ssg. Other than that, for others is just a couple of times stronger than the individual. Why you may ask?... cause plot.

The power x power thing doesn't even make any sense. That's like trying to multiply distance, it gives you a new quantity ie: length turns into area which is 2 dimensional.

But let's set that aside, the result still varies drastically based on the unit of measurement you use. For instance, let's use their kili measurement of 800. 800 x 800 gives you 640,000 kilis. Let's take a guess at their battle power and say it's around 50,000,000. 50,000,000 x 50,000,000 gives you 2.5 * 10^15, a much bigger boost than the one we got from using kilis.

We shouldn't be taking that line literally.

Exactly. Besides, if you multiply 60m with 60m, you'd get 3,600 Sq. m. which is a completely different unit. So if Goku is 3-dimensional, then that'd make Vegetto 4-dimensional, essentially making him infinitely stronger than Goku.