Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

Based on what? The Spirt Bomb got far more reaction about its power over Vegeta's Final Flash.

Based on the fact that Jiren got knocked down from it, while with the GD he used his eyes to push it back. And everyone was freaked out about the power Vegeta was showing. Unlike with the GD where Belmod was mildly concerned.

Plus, ssj blue Vegeta did better than kkx20 Goku did.

[Bullza]

What was with Vegeta and Jiren's shocked expressions when Goku turned Super Saiyan Blue? He's done it that many times already. Is that supposed to more powered up Super Saiyan Blue Goku or something?

Also it shows that characters like Pirina, Saonel and Koichiarator aren't anywhere near the level of a possibly suppressed Toppo who was perhaps barely Blue level.

https://imgur.com/LxtaLLH

Leonardo DiCaprio?

How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2 Blue even be? I feel like it would still be weaker than KKx20 Blue, especially considering that SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ

Well the difference between any Super Saiyan Blue 2 wouldn't necessarily be the same kind of gap as Super Saiyan 2. Super Saiyan Blue 2 could be any number higher.

What Vegeta will pull off will more than likely not even be called that. It might put to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 level or maybe even stronger.

[STH]

Did anyone else notice Goku using SSJ2 Blue for a moment? There are several scenes where he has SSJ2 hair. Not sure if that was intentional or a mistake by the animators.
https://imgur.com/LxtaLLH
EDIT: How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2 Blue even be? I feel like it would still be weaker than KKx20 Blue, especially considering that SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ

Bad drawing.

[HeroR]

Based on the fact that Jiren got knocked down from it, while with the GD he used his eyes to push it back. And everyone was freaked out about the power Vegeta was showing. Unlike with the GD where Belmod was mildly concerned.

Plus, ssj blue Vegeta did better than kkx20 Goku did.

Knocked down but now damage. Plus the Final Flash is an energy flash attack while the Spirit Bomb is a bomb that takes some time to explode. Everyone was freakout abut the Spirit Bomb too with the Grand Priest shielding Zen'o and even worried that the stage would be nuke.

Goku in this episode did better than he did in 109, so what is your point? Especially with Vegeta saying that Jiren used more power against Goku.

[MagmonKai]

Did anyone else notice Goku using SSJ2 Blue for a moment? There are several scenes where he has SSJ2 hair. Not sure if that was intentional or a mistake by the animators.
https://imgur.com/LxtaLLH
EDIT: How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2 Blue even be? I feel like it would still be weaker than KKx20 Blue, especially considering that SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ

I'm gonna say that's not SSB2 because we know what Vegeta looks like in the form. Bigger Sparkles, Dark Shade of Blue, and Pupils like SSG. This image of Goku doesn't have any of that.

[Birusu16]

That really looks like UI+SSB in that ending shot there for Vegeta. He has pupils just like UI Goku (which SSJB lacks) and the form just looks different from SSJB. Whether it is or not, Vegeta's clearly getting some new transformation next episode.

The eyes are the same eyes as Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God. Having pupils isn't just something UI has.

I realize that, but we're not talking about SSJ3 or SSJG. We're talking about SSJB, which doesn't have pupils. And the pupils Vegeta has in that shot look exactly like UI Goku's.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

That really looks like UI+SSB in that ending shot there for Vegeta. He has pupils just like UI Goku (which SSJB lacks) and the form just looks different from SSJB. Whether it is or not, Vegeta's clearly getting some new transformation next episode.

The eyes are the same eyes as Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God. Having pupils isn't just something UI has.

I realize that, but we're not talking about SSJ3 or SSJG. We're talking about SSJB, which doesn't have pupils. And the pupils Vegeta has in that shot look exactly like UI Goku's.

And like God and 3. They're pupils. Pupils is pupils is pupils. They look the same in all three forms, only difference is the iris color, which is blue in Vegeta's new form, not silver. And we might actually be talking about SS3, considering SSB is basically a godly SS1. Maybe Vegeta's new form is the equivalent of a godly SS2 or SS3.

[Birusu16]

The eyes are the same eyes as Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God. Having pupils isn't just something UI has.

I realize that, but we're not talking about SSJ3 or SSJG. We're talking about SSJB, which doesn't have pupils. And the pupils Vegeta has in that shot look exactly like UI Goku's.

And like God and 3. They're pupils. Pupils is pupils is pupils. They look the same in all three forms, only difference is the iris color, which is blue in Vegeta's new form, not silver. And we might actually be talking about SS3, considering SSB is basically a godly SS1. Maybe Vegeta's new form is the equivalent of a godly SS2 or SS3.

Pupils in a form that doesn't normally have pupils. And no, the pupils in SSJG and SSJ3 do not look just like the pupils of UI Goku and whatever new form Vegeta has in that shot. Not to me anyway.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

This episode seems to have done a good job in explaining or showing some decent powerscaling, at least in my opinion based on how people have reacted for past episodes.

Jiren's fight with Vegeta and Goku solidifies my thinking about how fights go. When you're strong enough, you CAN no-sell attacks if you go out of your way to do so. However, when you're throwing punches and trying to hit your opponent to take them out, you might leave yourself open to taking hits worse than if you're trying to simply tank them. Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages, but I think this separation helps explain powerscaling discrepancies people may have.

We see this as well when Toppo is fighting 17 and Ultimate Gohan. When he's in the middle of an attack, 17 can blast him away. But when Toppo decides to take Gohan's Kamehameha head on, he no-sells it. Which I do believe to be a good indicator that, whilst Gohan and 17 are approaching Goku and Vegeta, aren't quite there, a conclusion I also concur with.

Freeza actually did pretty well against Dyspo all things considered when he could freely move. He easily saw through Dyspo's Afterimage Technique and caught him with his tail, but then Dyspo used this against him and laid the smackdown on him with his speed. Once you get caught up in a Dyspo speed rush, you don't get out.

[Sora Saiyan]

It looks like Vegeta has some kind of UI or something going on in the ending, mainly when you see that his new Blue form hasn’t got those eyes that the ending shows him with, so he should be getting another power up. Dunno why he’s blue, but maybe the offensive UI puts you in your most powerful form? I didn’t think he’d get UI but the new ending puts a white outline around him and Goku, and like I said about the eyes being different.

In fact I think that the reason that Vegeta has even gotten this improved SSJB form in the anime is to put him equal with SSJBKK until he gets whatever’s coming next for him. That’s probably why Toyo has given him MSSJB in the manga already, so he doesn’t get two power ups in the ToP.

[ShinTenshin]

Seems 122 is the return of SSBLUE true power.
The way Goku power up in 122 clearly show he wasn't at his best against Kale, Anizara etc...
SSBLUE alone (Goku or Vegeta) seems able to do better than Gohan + C17 against restrained Toppo.
And we see with Vegeta's final flash than SSBLUE full power is really troublesome as pointed by Jiren and the Hakaishins.

Seems Dyspo isn't at full power by now if Gohan need to help Frieza.
Question is if Gohan help normal Frieza or Golden Frieza.
I'm pretty sure Dyspo hasn't show everything .
He's clearly not serious.

[freak27]

Great episode, but I do have a problem with Vegeta's new power.

Kaioken amplifies the user's power xTimes. Its like getting a new form and even more powerful than that(for example SSJ2 is only 2 times stronger than SSJ1). But Kaioken amplifies 20 times the power of SSBlue(for a short time yes)

So how can Vegeta's new variation of an existing form SSBlue to be 20 times stronger and compete with Kaioken? It should be miles apart and weaker. It's like saying SSJ1 grade 2 is 20 times stronger than Grade 1.

It's ridiculous.

[Bullza]

So how can Vegeta's new variation of an existing form SSBlue to be 20 times stronger and compete with Kaioken? It should be miles apart and weaker. It's like saying SSJ1 grade 2 is 20 times stronger than Grade 1.

By new power do you mean his power up in this episode or the one in the next episode?

We saw his Super Saiyan 2 get such a significant boost that it far surpassed Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks so maybe he's done the same thing again with his Blue form.

[buutenks]

Ssj blue in the ToP nas been shown to be impressive. The long power ups to blue makes them feel powerful.

And also the exhibition eps.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta's power up at the end of the fight was not just because of the Final Flash. If that were the case, then there would be no reason for the gods to be so surprised.

Piccolo says that Vegeta's pride has awakened in him a dormant power, Zen'oh says that Vegeta was getting stronger (if it was just the Final Flash, so he has no reason to say he was more powerful), and Vermoud also says that he was increasing the power

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta's power up at the end of the fight was not just because of the Final Flash. If that were the case, then there would be no reason for the gods to be so surprised.

Piccolo says that Vegeta's pride has awakened in him a dormant power, Zen'oh says that Vegeta was getting stronger (if it was just the Final Flash, so he has no reason to say he was more powerful), and Vermoud also says that he was increasing the power

Vegeta getting a power up due to pride is just as stupid as him getting one thanks to anger, pride and anger are the standards of his personality, it's his default, it's stupid for a super version of either to matter to his power.

Honestly, all of it seems like stupid hype talk, like Vermoud is amazed by his power? Really? After seeing Ultra Instict Goku and Kefla's mass last barrage THIS is what shows him the power of a Saiyan?

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta's power up at the end of the fight was not just because of the Final Flash. If that were the case, then there would be no reason for the gods to be so surprised.

Piccolo says that Vegeta's pride has awakened in him a dormant power, Zen'oh says that Vegeta was getting stronger (if it was just the Final Flash, so he has no reason to say he was more powerful), and Vermoud also says that he was increasing the power

Vegeta getting a power up due to pride is just as stupid as him getting one thanks to anger, pride and anger are the standards of his personality, it's his default, it's stupid for a super version of either to matter to his power.

Honestly, all of it seems like stupid hype talk, like Vermoud is amazed by his power? Really? After seeing Ultra Instict Goku and Kefla's mass last barrage THIS is what shows him the power of a Saiyan?

This is just an example of a Saiyan getting better in the middle of the fight. This is the Saiyan power that never ceases to amaze the other characters. In Vegeta’s case, everytime his personality is provoked or when his loved ones suffer.

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta's power up at the end of the fight was not just because of the Final Flash. If that were the case, then there would be no reason for the gods to be so surprised.

Piccolo says that Vegeta's pride has awakened in him a dormant power, Zen'oh says that Vegeta was getting stronger (if it was just the Final Flash, so he has no reason to say he was more powerful), and Vermoud also says that he was increasing the power

Vegeta getting a power up due to pride is just as stupid as him getting one thanks to anger, pride and anger are the standards of his personality, it's his default, it's stupid for a super version of either to matter to his power.

Honestly, all of it seems like stupid hype talk, like Vermoud is amazed by his power? Really? After seeing Ultra Instict Goku and Kefla's mass last barrage THIS is what shows him the power of a Saiyan?

This is just an example of a Saiyan getting better in the middle of the fight. This is the Saiyan power that never ceases to amaze the other characters. In Vegeta’s case, everytime his personality is provoked or when his loved ones suffer.

That's what I said and why I don't like it, Vegeta is always super prideful and super angry, neither of these emotions should factor into his power at all particularly when he was incredibly prideful and angry before and it never did anything for him but now it is. It doesn't work, Gohan's emotions giving him a boost works because Gohan getting murderously angry is the antithesis of his base personality, this is just Vegeta's default being amped up and I don't see why it suddenly matters. Surely having Vegeta calm the fuck down and reach serenity would make infinitely more sense to explain a power up over his pride being boosted.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta getting a power up due to pride is just as stupid as him getting one thanks to anger, pride and anger are the standards of his personality, it's his default, it's stupid for a super version of either to matter to his power.

Honestly, all of it seems like stupid hype talk, like Vermoud is amazed by his power? Really? After seeing Ultra Instict Goku and Kefla's mass last barrage THIS is what shows him the power of a Saiyan?

This is just an example of a Saiyan getting better in the middle of the fight. This is the Saiyan power that never ceases to amaze the other characters. In Vegeta’s case, everytime his personality is provoked or when his loved ones suffer.

That's what I said and why I don't like it, Vegeta is always super prideful and super angry, neither of these emotions should factor into his power at all particularly when he was incredibly prideful and angry before and it never did anything for him but now it is. It doesn't work, Gohan's emotions giving him a boost works because Gohan getting murderously angry is the antithesis of his base personality, this is just Vegeta's default being amped up and I don't see why it suddenly matters. Surely having Vegeta calm the fuck down and reach serenity would make infinitely more sense to explain a power up over his pride being boosted.

I don’t see how anger aligns to Vegeta’s usual being. Pure-blooded Saiyans are not that prompted to emotions, unlike the half-blooded ones.

[ekrolo2]

This is just an example of a Saiyan getting better in the middle of the fight. This is the Saiyan power that never ceases to amaze the other characters. In Vegeta’s case, everytime his personality is provoked or when his loved ones suffer.

That's what I said and why I don't like it, Vegeta is always super prideful and super angry, neither of these emotions should factor into his power at all particularly when he was incredibly prideful and angry before and it never did anything for him but now it is. It doesn't work, Gohan's emotions giving him a boost works because Gohan getting murderously angry is the antithesis of his base personality, this is just Vegeta's default being amped up and I don't see why it suddenly matters. Surely having Vegeta calm the fuck down and reach serenity would make infinitely more sense to explain a power up over his pride being boosted.

I don’t see how anger aligns to Vegeta’s usual being. Pure-blooded Saiyans are not that prompted to emotions, unlike the half-blooded ones.

Vegeta's never not angry, any little thing sets him off and Whis even tells him he's got a massive problem trying to relax as opposed to Goku who's more carefree. Having anger and/or pride give Vegeta a power boost is moronic since he's always a nuke waiting to go off.