Does my boy Gohan have to beat Toppo in order to be "redeemed" and live up to the hype of this arc?

[Xeogran]

Toppo? Silly, Gohan is taking on Jiren

[Kagari]

If Gohan beats Toppo this would kill DBS, it would make no sense and it would be a fatal error from Toriyama/Toei/whoever. Gohan should be eliminated by Toppo. Toppo can alone can eliminate Gohan and #17.

The final should be Freeza, Vegeta and Goku vs Dyspo, Toppo and Jiren.

There was no hype about Gohan, only fans hyped Gohan without any reason, out of nowhere (being chosen as a "team leader" doesn't mean NOTHING. In the first episode of the Tournament, everyone mocked Gohan and disrespected his "leadership"). Gohan already shined in Cell's arc and Buu's arc, he doesn't need any spotlight.

If the series want to make Gohan shine again, they should do what they didn'1t in Z: build Gohan to be a badass, not make asspulls via dancing/farting/porn magazine reading Kai, or out of nowhere.

There was though. He's basically been a lead character next to Goku this entire arc, starting from last February. Fans didn't hype it up, Toei did by giving him that role and they continue to do so in merchandise or whatever.

The rest of your post doesn't make much sense when we're looking at Super - a series Gohan was largely absent in for 70 episodes. By that logic Vegeta shouldn't be getting whatever he is next episode because he already had shine the three previous arcs of Super. Well it doesn't work that way.

[precita]

That post also doesn't make much sense because both 17 and 18 came out of obscurity to get a tremendous amount of screentime in this arc out of nowhere. So by token Gohan doing nothing for most of Super is exactly why his return to form and participation in this tournament is so hyped. People expect something important out of him.

What was his last big win? Taking out the Nameks was nice but that's not what I would expect out of Gohan's final victory in the tournament.

[Lord Beerus]

Gohan has already been "redeemed". He went from one of the weaker characters in the cast to one of the strongest mortal fighters in 8 universes from a few months of off-screen training and then re-attaining his Ultimate form/power-up. Everything else from this point is really icing on top of the cake.

[precita]

Gohan has already been "redeemed". He went from one of the weaker characters in the cast to one of the strongest mortal fighters in 8 universes from a few months of off-screen training and then re-attaining his Ultimate form/power-up. Everything else from this point is really icing on top of the cake.

That's not really redeemed, it's to make up for his non-existent character in Super's arcs. Now he's just there. I'm still waiting for him to get a 17 moment.

[Kagari]

Gohan has already been "redeemed". He went from one of the weaker characters in the cast to one of the strongest mortal fighters in 8 universes from a few months of off-screen training and then re-attaining his Ultimate form/power-up. Everything else from this point is really icing on top of the cake.

That's not really redeemed, it's to make up for his non-existent character in Super's arcs. Now he's just there. I'm still waiting for him to get a 17 moment.

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

[precita]

Well it's just that his role in Super was SO BAD that now this looks really good in comparison, but taken on its own its still not a great performance/role in the TOP.

If Gohan was in the Universe 6 tournament I don't think people would have had such high expectations for him now. But since all Gohan had was being humiliated by Freeza and his soldiers in Return of F, missing and not even watching the U6 tournament, then not featured for the Zamasu/Black arc....it's why this hype with the training eps and TOP feel like a big deal.

[Lord Beerus]

Gohan has already been "redeemed". He went from one of the weaker characters in the cast to one of the strongest mortal fighters in 8 universes from a few months of off-screen training and then re-attaining his Ultimate form/power-up. Everything else from this point is really icing on top of the cake.

That's not really redeemed, it's to make up for his non-existent character in Super's arcs. Now he's just there. I'm still waiting for him to get a 17 moment.

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

[Kagari]

That's not really redeemed, it's to make up for his non-existent character in Super's arcs. Now he's just there. I'm still waiting for him to get a 17 moment.

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

You're not wrong. He was placed in the "wait for Goku" role back then only for it to be taken away at the last minute. What they're doing now is a lot better.

[Kanious]

There was though. He's basically been a lead character next to Goku this entire arc, starting from last February. Fans didn't hype it up, Toei did by giving him that role and they continue to do so in merchandise or whatever.

The rest of your post doesn't make much sense when we're looking at Super - a series Gohan was largely absent in for 70 episodes. By that logic Vegeta shouldn't be getting whatever he is next episode because he already had shine the three previous arcs of Super. Well it doesn't work that way.

When did the show hyped? Saying for two seconds that Gohan is the leader of the team? Where did he lead the team? Everyone besides the weaklings disrespected Gohan's plan. I'm curious about the merchandising claim. To me this is like the hype of Hit Vs Goku round 3, or Narirama having some relevance.

Super is Vegeta and Goku's show. Maybe he will shine briefly, but don't expect anything major for Gohan, probably he is the next in line to be eliminated alongside #17.

And about Vegeta... Well... he trained. How much time did Gohan trained in the last 7 DB years? Or in the last 14 DB years? (1 year in the RoSaT, a little bit with Goten and Videl, and the porn magazine reading/dancing/farting Kai bs. Aside the RoSaT it may be DAYS). I don't think that Gohan deserve a new transformation, or a big power up, at least NOW. Even if i don't like him, i would be ok if he get a major role in a new arc, where the story itself builds him to have that major role.

[Asura]

That's not really redeemed, it's to make up for his non-existent character in Super's arcs. Now he's just there. I'm still waiting for him to get a 17 moment.

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

I highly disagree with this. Gohan was way more important and had a lot more spotlight in the Buu arc. Gohan has been given little victories here and there in this arc, but has done nothing major on his own. Defeating Obuni and erasing U10 is really not that impressive because Obuni was introduced and erased in the same episode he debuted in. He wasn't a major adversary at all, and very inconsequential in the scale of the tournament. Likewise, eliminating the U6 Namekians (with the help of Piccolo) was also not very impressive given the U6 Namekians were not hyped up at all, and their presence was very inconsequential in the scale of the tournament. Someone like Dyspo, or Toppo, which are adversaries that aren't the main antagonist, but have been focused on heavily in the tournament as being top dogs is exactly what Gohan needs.

The opponents Gohan eliminated weren't fodder per se, but they definitely were not important in the tournament at all, and having Gohan win over some literal whos like Obuni doesn't really "redeem" him in any way. Not to mention half the tournament he's looked like a defenseless baby who always needs Piccolo to save him.

If not Toppo, then give him Dyspo. Even a mutual KO would be good for him.

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

You're not wrong. He was placed in the "wait for Goku" role back then only for it to be taken away at the last minute. What they're doing now is a lot better.

How is what they're doing now a lot better? He was placed in the main character role back then, and now he's simply a supporting role. Instead of taking up the spotlight while waiting for Goku to arrive, he's now forced in the background while Goku is already here.

[Kagari]

There was though. He's basically been a lead character next to Goku this entire arc, starting from last February. Fans didn't hype it up, Toei did by giving him that role and they continue to do so in merchandise or whatever.

The rest of your post doesn't make much sense when we're looking at Super - a series Gohan was largely absent in for 70 episodes. By that logic Vegeta shouldn't be getting whatever he is next episode because he already had shine the three previous arcs of Super. Well it doesn't work that way.

When did the show hyped? Saying for two seconds that Gohan is the leader of the team? Where did he lead the team? Everyone besides the weaklings disrespected Gohan's plan. I'm curious about the merchandising claim. To me this is like the hype of Hit Vs Goku round 3, or Narirama having some relevance.

Super is Vegeta and Goku's show. Maybe he will shine briefly, but don't expect anything major for Gohan, probably he is the next in line to be eliminated alongside #17.

And about Vegeta... Well... he trained. How much time did Gohan trained in the last 7 DB years? Or in the last 14 DB years? (1 year in the RoSaT, a little bit with Goten and Videl, and the porn magazine reading/dancing/farting Kai bs. Aside the RoSaT it may be DAYS). I don't think that Gohan deserve a new transformation, or a big power up, at least NOW. Even if i don't like him, i would be ok if he get a major role in a new arc, where the story itself builds him to have that major role.

Let's see:
Back in the exhibition, they brought along Gohan. Goku was supportive of him, saying they'll be okay if they have Gohan, that he's counting on him, etc. Gohan was heavily involved in the recruitment of the U7 team after that, followed by his training session with Piccolo - who again drove home the fact that they won't win if he wishes too hard for it. They spent a good amount of effort to get him back up to speed given the short amount of time which culminated in his test of strength with his father in episode 90. There, Goku named him leader and the narration was focused on how the father-son pair will do in the tournament. In the tournament proper, he's had several focus episodes (including ones where he narrated the next episode) - second only to Goku. I could keep going but it just sounds like you've ignored the obvious things the show has told us.

As for Vegeta, he's played a background role the entire arc until now so it's not really his show. It hasn't been the "Goku and Vegeta show" for over a year now.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

I severely doubt he'll beat Toppo. Actually, I don't think he will. At all. Buuuuuuuuuut, it would be nice to see him reach a new level of power (doesn't have to be a new transformation, but it would be nice) against Toppo. Or he can face Dyspo, I don't have any problem with that.

Personally, I'm not expecting a new transformation from Gohan at this moment, despite his potential. Would love to be wrong, but unlike Future Trunks, it isn't as if Gohan was constantly fighting or anything. He's become a scholar. Should a guy who, even with a huge upside, has been studying and hasn't been training or fighting seriously at all for such a long time all of a sudden be getting an instant power-up like Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks? (I'm not gonna answer that because I don't really have an answer )

[Kagari]

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

You're not wrong. He was placed in the "wait for Goku" role back then only for it to be taken away at the last minute. What they're doing now is a lot better.

How is what they're doing now a lot better? He was placed in the main character role back then, and now he's simply a supporting role. Instead of taking up the spotlight while waiting for Goku to arrive, he's now forced in the background while Goku is already here.

Mainly talking about the end of the Buu arc where Toriyama trashed Gohan and the kids in the 11th hour and his battles as a whole in that arc. The Universe Survival arc has been better when looking at those things. He was fine in the early Buu arc, it just needed to pan out better.

[Lord Beerus]

He's definitely been redeemed though. Maybe not to what you'd like but he's here in the final battle of a major arc... which is far and away better than anything Super did for him before. Or even the end of the Buu arc for that matter.

Gohan at this stage in Super is better than anything he's done since the Cell arc.

I highly disagree with this. Gohan was way more important and had a lot more spotlight in the Buu arc. Gohan has been given little victories here and there in this arc, but has done nothing major on his own. Defeating Obuni and erasing U10 is really not that impressive because Obuni was introduced and erased in the same episode he debuted in. He wasn't a major adversary at all, and very inconsequential in the scale of the tournament. Likewise, eliminating the U6 Namekians (with the help of Piccolo) was also not very impressive given the U6 Namekians were not hyped up at all, and their presence was very inconsequential in the scale of the tournament. Someone like Dyspo, or Toppo, which are adversaries that aren't the main antagonist, but have been focused on heavily in the tournament as being top dogs is exactly what Gohan needs.

The opponents Gohan eliminated weren't fodder per se, but they definitely were not important in the tournament at all, and having Gohan win over some literal whos like Obuni doesn't really "redeem" him in any way. Not to mention half the tournament he's looked like a defenseless baby who always needs Piccolo to save him.

If not Toppo, then give him Dyspo. Even a mutual KO would be good for him.

Gohan has actual payoff in this arc from his increase in strength unlike what occured in the Majin Boo arc. In the Majin Boo arc, Gohan gets a terrible character arc when the plot truly kicks off. His role in that arc was to having his energy stolen, being a bystander to Majin Boo being resurrected and then being defeated by Majin Boo.

The worst part of that arc (Majin Boo) for Gohan, as I mentioned before, is that Gohan has no actually payoff to when he ascended very quickly the ranks in the strength. Gohan becomes the strongest in the universe... and it amounts to nothing. Ultimate Gohan beats up Super Boo for half a chapter, then three chapters later Super Boo becomes absurdly more powerful, beats Gohan half to death and then absorbs him, and Gohan is then killed by Kid Boo. All the spotlight lead to nothing for Gohan as a character. The power-up meant nothing for Gohan as a character or moving the story forward positively. It was basically Piccolo on Namek all over again. He becomes less of a character more of an excuse for a power-up, and in this case, it's to specifically service the main villain in strength. Hell, despite getting benched for 90% of the Cell arc, when Gohan was thrust back into the scene, all that time spent training at least amounted to something positive for the character, even if it felt somewhat contrived in execution.

Gohan victories in the Tournament Of Power, have actually contributed something of importance and substance to movie the plot along positively. And, yes, eliminating fighters, given the context of this arc, is something that qualifies as moving the plot forward, and something that matter greatly given that this a tournament where eliminating fighters is paramount to your universe surviving. It doesn't matter if the victory is minor, adequate or major, the point is that is matters. it automatically gives your universe are better chance at surviving, which is the whole point of this arc and this tournament in general.

Super may not have treated Gohan with the best of interets all of the time, but as far as the Universal Survival arc, and the Tournament Of Power specifically, Gohan's role in the plot not only bears more weight but has some kind of payoff.If Gohan wasn't as strong as he is right now in Super, he would not have lasted as long as he has in the tournament and Universe 7 would be really up against it. And with the stakes as high as they are in the Universal Survival arc Gohan's power is significant at this point than more than any other point in the series.

I'm not expecting Gohan to become the strongest in the universe like he was in the Majin Boo arc, I just want his power and actions on the plot to feel like they play a positive and significant role, while not lessening the character. From my perspective, the Universal Survival arc did this and Majin Boo arc never did.

[Asura]

I don't think Gohan's role in the plot bears much weight at all in this arc (at least the main focus of it), because like I said he hasn't done anything significant against the real antagonists. It's just a bunch of little things against a bunch of little opponents. Gohan got to take the main character role in the Buu saga not once, but twice. He even ends up becoming the strongest non-fused character in the entire show by the end of the arc. The spotlight was constantly on him. In this arc, he's in the background taking out the little guys while Goku and Vegeta take on the big guys. There's no real sense that Gohan has done anything grand, especially since he hasn't done a single thing against the actual antagonists of this arc, U11.

When we look back on this arc we're only going to remember the strongest of the strong in terms of the competition. Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Aniraza, Kefla, Caulifla, Kale, maybe even Ribrianne. No one is going to go "Oh hey all those fights were pretty insane but does anyone remember when Gohan took out that madman Obuni? What an iconic fight that was."

Gohan doesn't need to be the main character again, nor does he need to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta, but he needs some spotlight. He needs to put up a good fight against an actual memorable opponent.

Don't get me wrong though, this arc has treated him quite spectacularly compared to the horrific, non-existent treatment that Gohan has gotten throughout the rest of Super, but it can do much better for him.

[JulieYBM]

Gohan's going to need an episode twice as good as #122 to come anywhere near as close to being 'redeemed' after this boring arc of his dragged him out of his perfectly fine retirement.

Personally, I hope he just gets knocked out as soon as possible. I'm way more invested in Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza as the arc's protagonists. Gohan has no clearly defined goal. Hell, #17 has a more clearly defined goal and he didn't even meet Gokuu until yesterday. Gohan's known the fucker his entire life!

[supercat]

Gohan is an overrated, overhyped nobody that needs to go soon. He already has far more major victories under his belt than 17 and Frieza combined; which to me is ridiculous, seeing as how both 17 and Frieza seem to have a lot more to offer from a story standpoint. I mean, what exactly does Gohan bring to the table other than his whiny crybaby mentality? Oh, I guess he's great at having others go down on his behalf right? But since Piccolo's already gone and Goku's Saiyan heritage grants him immunity against such treatment, I guess there's no other purpose for Gohan to serve right? Seriously, what more do we need from Gohan? We know all about him as a character, nothing about him is mysterious at this point. We know he's a slacker who let's himself go every now and then, we know he's the father of Pan, and yes, we know he's the son of the main character. We also know about his ridiculous rage boosts and how even the some of biggest downplayers of power levels will gladly accept said boost, because he's the son of the main character. If there's one thing the Universe 6 tournament has on the ToP is Gohan's absence. His fights are so boring to be honest. His moves lack innovation and his attacks lack originality. If anything, Piccolo should be in his place fighting alongside Vegeta, Android 17, and Frieza; though I cringe at 17 and Piccolo working together. A Piccolo / Vegeta team up or a Frieza / Piccolo team up would have been amazing to say the least.

[RedShift]

Huh?

Gohan went from "I can barely turn Super Saiyan" to at the very least equal to his old Buu Arc power levels... Just with some offscreen training with someone who's significantly less powerful than himself. He has no right to be anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta & Goku nor should he.

Besides that, Gohan has been the most character I can think of besides Goku. He's eliminated two different universes, has had multiple prominent showings, is still in the final eight of a multiversal tournament, and fighting opponents he has no right to even be matched up with.

Gohan & #17 teaming up against Toppo makes sense. They will probably eliminate Toppo through teamwork and be too gassed to be of use elsewhere... But Gohan was "redeemed" a LONG time ago. At this point its just bonus points.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Honestly, Gohan has done quite a bit of work this arc. I could see him taking out Dyspo, but I don't think he could meet Toppo. If we look at what we've seen, Toppo was even with SSB Goku, tanked a Kamehameha from the same Goku, and wasn't flinching against a SSBK Goku. Gohan had to beg Goku to use SSB and got smashed. Now they could always give Gohan a rage boost but I just don't see it happening. Besides from the spoilers, we're going to see

[spoiler]"God of Destruction" Toppo, whatever that means at the moment. We've yet to see more info on the episode[/spoiler]

But overall, I see Gohan making it to the last few minutes from a plot stance. I don't see him getting tossed aside until he's served his purpose to the plot