Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Galan007]

Assuming Belmond wasn't just boasting here:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

...Jiren should absolutely be > Beerus and all the other Hakaishin, tbh. I figured that was the intent, but until this nothing had really 'confirmed' it for me. /shrug

[Dragon's Instinct]

Man, i think jirens full power is going to be scaaaaaary. The dude is still far from full power, yet will handle a ssb kaioken ×20 goku, who seems to be nearing his first UI showcase of power, and a far stronger ssb vegeta with minimum effort.

I honestly don't see universe 7 winning tbh I think u11 has this in the bag

[Dragon's Instinct]

Assuming Belmond wasn't just boasting here:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

...Jiren should absolutely be > Beerus and all the other Hakaishin, tbh. I figured that was the intent, but until this nothing had really 'confirmed' it for me. /shrug

Nah I don't think so I believe he's around the range of them tbh not above Beerus would've have been panicking if Jiren was stronger than him at least the other gods would've have said something to the effect if Jiren was stronger than them at the very least . It seems Jiren is like a slightly weaker template of Beerus.

[Galan007]

Nah I don't think so I believe he's around the range of them tbh not above Beerus would've have been panicking if Jiren was stronger than him at least the other gods would've have said something to the effect if Jiren was stronger than them at the very least . It seems Jiren is like a slightly weaker template of Beerus.

Tbf, it was stated that Jiren is > Belmond. Moreover, Beerus' lack of reaction(even though he was indeed shocked by Jiren's power when he fought Goku the first time) doesn't mean much -- Jiren is still massively suppressed, after all... And I assume the only folks who've legitimately seen Jiren at full power are Toppo, Khai, and Belmond.

Anywho, I predict that once Jiren *fully* unleashes his power, we will indeed see Beerus(and everyone else, for that matter) 'panicking'... But that's neither here nor there.

[dragon boss z]

Freeza was not trying against Cabba in Golden he even said he wasted energy doing that
Freeza simply overestimated Cabba when he powered up.

Impossible. He can very well sense Cabba's ki.

He used Golden because he needed to.

No, he went gold to tank the attack. Why fight Cabba in his final form when he can one shot in his golden form? It's possible ssj2 Cabba is above final form Frieza, but it was clear final form Frieza was way above base Cabba, though so are base Goku and Vegeta.

[SuperDragoon]

Freeza flat out said he wasted his stamina going Golden on trash. He didn't NEED it for Cabba. Freeza isn't Base Saiyan level.

Also did anyone else notice Jiren is the first character to canonically tank a Destructo Disc? He flat out punched one and He was fine.

[ZombieVito]

No, he went gold to tank the attack. Why fight Cabba in his final form when he can one shot in his golden form? It's possible ssj2 Cabba is above final form Frieza, but it was clear final form Frieza was way above base Cabba, though so are base Goku and Vegeta.

The only reason Final form Freeza was above base Cabba was because the latter was tired.

If he was SSG in his Final form he would have tanked the attack no problem without Golden, he didn't.

[dragon boss z]

No, he went gold to tank the attack. Why fight Cabba in his final form when he can one shot in his golden form? It's possible ssj2 Cabba is above final form Frieza, but it was clear final form Frieza was way above base Cabba, though so are base Goku and Vegeta.

The only reason Final form Freeza was above base Cabba was because the latter was tired.

If he was SSG in his Final form he would have tanked the attack no problem without Golden, he didn't.

I don't think final form Frieza is SSG tier. But I do think he could beat ssj Cabba and maybe ssj2 Cabba. However I do think ssj2 Cabba could probably challenge him, hence him going golden. I mean Dyspo can't even damage final form Frieza and Dyspo would of probably creamed ssj2 Cabba.

[AvatarReiko]

The power-scale is insane in Super right now. The episode basically implies that Goku got over 20x stronger in his normal SSB since it's stated that Jiren is stronger than he ever has been in the tournament right now and SSB Goku could trade blows with him. Then Goku proceeds to power up even more into SSBKKx20 and Vegeta attains his new transformation by breaking his own limits and both manage to push him despite him being at the highest level he's ever been at in the tournament. It essentially implies that both Goku and Vegeta are stronger than initial UI Goku.

At this point I'm just going with the assumption that Goku and Vegeta continuously get stronger the more they fight because this is just getting insane.

I swear, if I see a single statement that says that the saiyans are still weaker than Beerus, I am going flip switch

[ChiefWamsutta]

What on Earth is Super Saiyan Saiyan Proper and Super Saiyan Legend 2 and 3?

Is the latter supposed to be what Kale obtained after mastering the Berserk form and slimming down?

It seemed like Super Saiyan Berserk was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 as well considering Jiren reacted to the former but took no notice of the other one.

Haha, I explained in my original post what those words meant. I nicknamed Kale's Super Saiyan form to be Super Saiyan Proper. Kale's green-haired form with pupils from Ep. 114 is called Super Saiyan Legend. Since we have no explanation, I came to the conclusion that Kefla was using the same SSLegend form against SSBlue/SSBlue KK Goku that Kale has. Then Kefla pushed it to the SS2 version of SSLegend.

Just go with the names for now. It was easier to give my own names and type those than constantly explain myself each time.

[HeroR]

Freeza was not trying against Cabba in Golden he even said he wasted energy doing that
Freeza simply overestimated Cabba when he powered up.

He said he didn't want to waste energy and he can sense ki as shown in the retelling of Resurrection 'F'. He also saw Super Saiyan 2 Cabba in action against Monna, so he would know how strong Cabba was so there was no reason for him to underestimate him. Even then, Champa called Freeza dirty for attacking Cabba when he was tired.

No, he went gold to tank the attack. Why fight Cabba in his final form when he can one shot in his golden form? It's possible ssj2 Cabba is above final form Frieza, but it was clear final form Frieza was way above base Cabba, though so are base Goku and Vegeta.

The only reason Final form Freeza was above base Cabba was because the latter was tired.

If he was SSG in his Final form he would have tanked the attack no problem without Golden, he didn't.

I don't think final form Frieza is SSG tier. But I do think he could beat ssj Cabba and maybe ssj2 Cabba. However I do think ssj2 Cabba could probably challenge him, hence him going golden. I mean Dyspo can't even damage final form Frieza and Dyspo would of probably creamed ssj2 Cabba.

Dypso dragged Freeza through some rocks. He haven't even touched him with his own power, unlike what he did against Hit. And we know how strong Hit is.

[Issei189]

So, it's clear that Gohan and 17 are weaker than SSB Vegeta ( Pre-Pride boost) and Toppo

[ChiefWamsutta]

Yeah, I can't really tell if Vegeta's new form is equal to: 1) SSBlue Kaioken Goku; 2) SSBlue Kaioken x20 Goku; 3) UI Goku

What do you guys think?


Also, I have decided on the name Super Saiyan Cobalt. To me, "Beyond Super Saiyan Blue", "Super Saiyan Blue 2", "Super Saiyan Blue Grade 2", etc. all sound inaccurate and weird.

The color name fits it well. This also isn't exactly an SS2, as there was no lightning. This also isn't exactly a Grade 2, as the sparkles and hair became different colors. This seems like it isn't related to SSBlue in the same way SS Grade 2/SS2 are related to SS1.

[dragon boss z]

Dypso dragged Freeza through some rocks. He haven't even touched him with his own power, unlike what he did against Hit. And we know how strong Hit is.

If Dyspo could defeat final form Frieza easily he would of done it by now. So far the show has made it look like final form Frieza has more raw power than Dyspo, but maybe that will change next episode.

[HeroR]

Dypso dragged Freeza through some rocks. He haven't even touched him with his own power, unlike what he did against Hit. And we know how strong Hit is.

If Dyspo could defeat final form Frieza easily he would of done it by now. So far the show has made it look like final form Frieza has more raw power than Dyspo, but maybe that will change next episode.

That isn't a good argument looking at Jiren and even Toppo. Are you're trying to say that true form Freeza is comparable to Hit?

[dragon boss z]

That isn't a good argument looking at Jiren and even Toppo.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Are you're trying to say that true form Freeza is comparable to Hit?

No, though Hit is way overhyped. Without time skip he is between SSG and SSB level in the anime, and in the manga he is actually below or equal to SSG level.

Also not to mention Hit did much better against Dyspo than Frieza is doing now. In terms of raw power it probably goes Dyspo<=final form Frieza<buff Frieza<Hit<Golden Frieza

[avasatu]

Well, this was only a "hint" of Jiren's power.

I more or less had Super's scaling down to a tee until this episode. No idea what's going on with Jiren, or how Goku got well over 20 times stronger in SSB. Even the whole "Saiyans get stronger as they fight" doesn't make sense, because the magnitude of the increase is unfathomable. Why weren't they getting stronger at this rate as they fought against Cell and Buu? Maybe you need god ki to unlock the full potential of this Saiyan trait?

[HeroR]

That isn't a good argument looking at Jiren and even Toppo.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Are you're trying to say that true form Freeza is comparable to Hit?

No, though Hit is way overhyped. Without time skip he is between SSG and SSB level in the anime, and in the manga he is actually below or equal to SSG level.

Also not to mention Hit did much better against Dyspo than Frieza is doing now. In terms of raw power it probably goes Dyspo<=final form Frieza<buff Frieza<Hit<Golden Frieza

I mean that Jiren can easily bodied Goku and Vegeta, yet he's shown fighting Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku as almost an equal. Then there was Vegeta last week. Toppo at his full power is supposed on par with Blue Kaioken and he should easily ring out Gohan and 17 in seconds, yet he's toying with them.

Hit took attacks from Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, so how is between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan? And Dyspo in the NEP is fighting Ultimate Gohan, so are you saying that final form Freeza in comparable to that?

[Green]

Seems like Dyspo powers up next episode and holds off both Gohan and Golden Freezer.
Anyway regarding Freezer's strenght, I don't really know what to say: on several istances he seemed stronger than Base Saiyans (wrecked Napapa and Jimeze, was confident in taking Kale and Caulifla on, tanked Dyspo's hits) but then there's the Cabba episode.

[STH]

This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

No he isn't not even close
Gohan was not even at full power against him

I don't think so.