"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[IndieBooToo]

Probably Vermoud just did not imagine that in the tournament there would be someone to rival Jiren.
But still, Jiren was restrained against UI Goku (who was also evolving during the battle).

Now, Vermoud claims that Jiren used a power he had not seen for a long time, that is, even greater than against UI Goku. And as I said, Goku SSB was able to rival him, Jiren even used a sample of his true power.

And if SSB Goku manages to rival with powered up Jiren, then SSB KK x20 could do better and we saw that Vegeta with the new Blue fought at the same pace as Goku. He even forced Jiren to use that punch to defend a Ki Blast (the same punch used in Goku before)

He said he hasn't seen Jiren like that in a long time, nothing about his actual power. Goku didn't even rival him, just depended some punches.

Again, sloppy teamwork thrown Jiren off. No one claimed that Goku and Vegeta bridged the power gap.

Vermoud said that Jiren '' finally '' showed a '' hint '' of his true power, meaning he had not done it before.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And as I said, even before that, Vermoud had long since not seen Jiren release so much power.

Goku SSB was not at the same level of powered up Jiren, but managed to trade punches for quite a while. Before, an even more restrained Jiren easily destroyed SSB Goku, and now Goku SSB manages to trade punches with an even more powerful Jiren than before.

And even though the imperfect teamwork of Goku and Vegeta has pressured Jiren, it does not change the fact that they had the strength to do so. After all, a Vegeta Ki blast forced Jiren to use his '' punch '', which a short time ago would defeat SSB Goku and made Goku return to his base form of fear

You guys sure do love to overhype Vegeta to where you completely take a god's word out of context.... lol

[Dbzfan94]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

[MrBlackFox]

Guys, don't forget Goku experienced two zenkai boosts, while vegeta just had one
It's not that strange an increase in power
Vegeta after fighting jiren last week
Goku after having UI twice, against Jiren and kaulifla, was left almost without energies and slowly recovered

[HeroR]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

He was fighting alongside Vegeta and them fighting like drunk monkey threw Jiren off.

[Ki Breaker]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

I assume Toriyama's script mentioned a totally drained Goku using UI against Jiren the first time, totally drained means no power whatsoever, as good as farmer with a shotgun with UI against Jiren, can't do much damage there..
Then the next step is everyone helping Goku out until he regained his energy..
Then comes the part we are at now which contains Goku and Vegeta together going at Jiren with uncoordinated attacks giving Jiren trouble..

This is the conclusion I am going with here, taking everything the anime shows us at face value is a luxury we can't afford, it dosen't make sense, super anime never did..

[Nickolaidas]

Yeah, but #17 reaching SSB Goku's PL is bullshit!

Because ... because ... well JUST BECAUSE!!!

Well, 17 reaching a level that took Goku training with an angel to reach is out there and makes you wonder if he could have killed Golden Freeza in Resurrection 'F' if he wasn't so apathetic. Not sure how to feel about that.

But 17 isn't the worst power-up in the franchise. Gohan over night jump to god level is by far the worst of this saga, but no one seems to care because it's Gohan.

My point is that Vegeta went from one of Frieza's lowest ranking officers to a person capable of challenging him in his final form in just a few days, by basically fighting three to four times. Most people fail to comprehend how complete, utter, shark jumping bullshit this is, and yet are quick to bash #17's training.

Personally, I blame the internet. Ever since it was conceived, every little thing has now the ability to be blown out of proportion, while things in the 80s (as in opinions) were more personal and less widespread. You could form your opinion on the Namek saga, but you didn't have the thumbs up or thumbs down of an entire community to elevate and enforce or condemn and destroy your point of view.

[Kaiosama]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

Because of inconsistent writing. It will be remedied in the next couple of episodes when Jiren releases more of his power and Goku and Vegeta won't be able to touch him. UI Goku will be needed and will be far stronger than the last two times he entered the state. Vegeta's pointless and gimmicky form won't be able to keep up with the fight anymore (since it's only equal to KKX20) so he will either have to fight Toppo or get rung out by Jiren so we can have the proper final battle between Mastered UI Goku and Beyond GoD Jiren!

[HeroR]

My point is that Vegeta went from one of Frieza's lowest ranking officers to a person capable of challenging him in his final form in just a few days, by basically fighting three to four times. Most people fail to comprehend how complete, utter, shark jumping bullshit this is, and yet are quick to bash #17's training.

Personally, I blame the internet. Ever since it was conceived, every little thing has now the ability to be blown out of proportion, while things in the 80s (as in opinions) were more personal and less widespread. You could form your opinion on the Namek saga, but you didn't have the thumbs up or thumbs down of an entire community to elevate and enforce or condemn and destroy your point of view.

Vegeta was one of Freeza's elites. He wasn't a low rank, he was just inferior to Zarbon and Dodoria. I wouldn't call it shark jumping, but it is eye-rolling to be okay with this, but not 17.

The internet only gave people more places to express their opinion. That and create echo chambers.

Because of inconsistent writing. It will be remedied in the next couple of episodes when Jiren releases more of his power and Goku and Vegeta won't be able to touch him. UI Goku will be needed and will be far stronger than the last two times he entered the state. Vegeta's pointless and gimmicky form won't be able to keep up with the fight anymore (since it's only equal to KKX20) so he will either have to fight Toppo or get rung out by Jiren so we can have the proper final battle between Mastered UI Goku and Beyond GoD Jiren!

That's a weird thing to say since the same person who wrote 122 and 123 wrote 110 and 111.

[Helios518]

Guys, don't forget Goku experienced two zenkai boosts, while vegeta just had one
It's not that strange an increase in power
Vegeta after fighting jiren last week
Goku after having UI twice, against Jiren and kaulifla, was left almost without energies and slowly recovered

Zenkais haven't been a thing for Saiyans since Freeza Arc besides with Manga Goku Black.

[HeroR]

Guys, don't forget Goku experienced two zenkai boosts, while vegeta just had one
It's not that strange an increase in power
Vegeta after fighting jiren last week
Goku after having UI twice, against Jiren and kaulifla, was left almost without energies and slowly recovered

Zenkais haven't been a thing for Saiyans since Freeza Arc besides with Manga Goku Black.

Anime Black also got them since he got stronger the more he got hurt. And it's hinted Goku and Vegeta got them since Black said in 63 that Goku will come back stronger than ever.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

Because of inconsistent writing. It will be remedied in the next couple of episodes when Jiren releases more of his power and Goku and Vegeta won't be able to touch him. UI Goku will be needed and will be far stronger than the last two times he entered the state. Vegeta's pointless and gimmicky form won't be able to keep up with the fight anymore (since it's only equal to KKX20) so he will either have to fight Toppo or get rung out by Jiren so we can have the proper final battle between Mastered UI Goku and Beyond GoD Jiren!

If Jiren will release more power in the next few episodes, then it is because he will be forced to do so.
So this only reinforces the argument that even though Jiren is using more power than in the fight against UI Goku, Goku and Vegeta current are able to press it.

And we do not know the extent of the powers of the new form of Vegeta, we only know that it rivals the SSB KK x20.

[perucho1990]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

Because Jiren in episode 123 was stronger than episode 110 Jiren, that renders Initial UI Goku(episode 110) as trash.

If Kaioken Goku was as strong as Pre UI Kaioken Goku he wouldve been trashed along with ASSJB Vegeta.

[Onibaku]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

He wasn't. TSSB Vegeta and SSBKK Goku were doing better against Jiren than UI Goku.

[HeroR]

Can someone please tell me how SSBKK Goku was doing better against Jiren than he was in Ultra Instinct

Because Jiren in episode 123 was stronger than episode 110 Jiren, that renders Initial UI Goku(episode 110) as trash.

If Kaioken Goku was as strong as Pre UI Kaioken Goku he wouldve been trashed along with ASSJB Vegeta.

That wasn't said at all. No one compared Goku and Vegeta to UI Goku from 110.

[Kaiosama]

My point is that Vegeta went from one of Frieza's lowest ranking officers to a person capable of challenging him in his final form in just a few days, by basically fighting three to four times. Most people fail to comprehend how complete, utter, shark jumping bullshit this is, and yet are quick to bash #17's training.

Personally, I blame the internet. Ever since it was conceived, every little thing has now the ability to be blown out of proportion, while things in the 80s (as in opinions) were more personal and less widespread. You could form your opinion on the Namek saga, but you didn't have the thumbs up or thumbs down of an entire community to elevate and enforce or condemn and destroy your point of view.

Vegeta was one of Freeza's elites. He wasn't a low rank, he was just inferior to Zarbon and Dodoria. I wouldn't call it shark jumping, but it is eye-rolling to be okay with this, but not 17.

The internet only gave people more places to express their opinion. That and create echo chambers.

Because of inconsistent writing. It will be remedied in the next couple of episodes when Jiren releases more of his power and Goku and Vegeta won't be able to touch him. UI Goku will be needed and will be far stronger than the last two times he entered the state. Vegeta's pointless and gimmicky form won't be able to keep up with the fight anymore (since it's only equal to KKX20) so he will either have to fight Toppo or get rung out by Jiren so we can have the proper final battle between Mastered UI Goku and Beyond GoD Jiren!

That's a weird thing to say since the same person who wrote 122 and 123 wrote 110 and 111.

You could argue that he wasn't one of Frieza's elites, or if he was, he was at the bottom of the elites. He was equal to Cui and weaker than Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyu Force. They just broke his and Goku's power with the obnoxious plot device zenkai boosts.

[HeroR]

You could argue that he wasn't one of Frieza's elites, or if he was, he was at the bottom of the elites. He was equal to Cui and weaker than Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyu Force. They just broke his and Goku's power with the obnoxious plot device zenkai boosts.

The Ginyu Force wasn't part of the Freeza Force. They were their own separate thing that worked for Freeza. They're official classified as mercenaries.

[Helios518]

Guys, don't forget Goku experienced two zenkai boosts, while vegeta just had one
It's not that strange an increase in power
Vegeta after fighting jiren last week
Goku after having UI twice, against Jiren and kaulifla, was left almost without energies and slowly recovered

Zenkais haven't been a thing for Saiyans since Freeza Arc besides with Manga Goku Black.

1) Anime Black also got them since he got stronger the more he got hurt. And it's hinted Goku and Vegeta got them since Black said in 63 that 2) Goku will come back stronger than ever.

1) IIRC Anime Black only got stronger when he got hurt, was because his god mind was connecting with Goku's body and besides that Black never got close to near-death and had an unmentioned regeneration. So unless you want to argue that Black has a really suped up zenkai boost where it ignores the "near-death" rule, I say what he's getting aren't zenkais.

2) Source and context?

[HeroR]

1) IIRC Anime Black only got stronger when he got hurt, was because his god mind was connecting with Goku's body and besides that Black never got close to near-death and had an unmentioned regeneration. So unless you want to argue that Black has a really suped up zenkai boost where it ignores the "near-death" rule, I say what he's getting aren't zenkais.

2) Source and context?

That was never said in the anime. The "god mind was connecting with Goku's body" was only uttered in the manga. Black specifically said that the bodies of the Saiyans are a gift from the gods since they get stronger the more they get hurt in 61.

And it was stated in 63 by Black that Goku will returned stronger while sipping tea, just before Mai tried to head shot him.

[Helios518]

1) IIRC Anime Black only got stronger when he got hurt, was because his god mind was connecting with Goku's body and besides that Black never got close to near-death and had an unmentioned regeneration. So unless you want to argue that Black has a really suped up zenkai boost where it ignores the "near-death" rule, I say what he's getting aren't zenkais.

2) Source and context?

That was never said in the anime. The "god mind was connecting with Goku's body" was only uttered in the manga. Black specifically said that the bodies of the Saiyans are a gift from the gods since they get stronger the more they get hurt in 61.

And it was stated in 63 by Black that Goku will returned stronger while sipping tea, just before Mai tried to head shot him.

1. If that's the case, Black hit the lottery with his zenkais because no other Saiyan in the franchise has shown zenkais anything like his not even Goku aka the person's body he's using.

2. And you know for sure that Black doesn't mean through Goku is coming back stronger through training?

[TheSaiyanGod]

He said he hasn't seen Jiren like that in a long time, nothing about his actual power. Goku didn't even rival him, just depended some punches.

Again, sloppy teamwork thrown Jiren off. No one claimed that Goku and Vegeta bridged the power gap.

Vermoud said that Jiren '' finally '' showed a '' hint '' of his true power, meaning he had not done it before.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And as I said, even before that, Vermoud had long since not seen Jiren release so much power.

Goku SSB was not at the same level of powered up Jiren, but managed to trade punches for quite a while. Before, an even more restrained Jiren easily destroyed SSB Goku, and now Goku SSB manages to trade punches with an even more powerful Jiren than before.

And even though the imperfect teamwork of Goku and Vegeta has pressured Jiren, it does not change the fact that they had the strength to do so. After all, a Vegeta Ki blast forced Jiren to use his '' punch '', which a short time ago would defeat SSB Goku and made Goku return to his base form of fear

You guys sure do love to overhype Vegeta to where you completely take a god's word out of context.... lol

So what is the right context? Vermoud says clearly that he had not seen Jiren in a long time using all that power

1) IIRC Anime Black only got stronger when he got hurt, was because his god mind was connecting with Goku's body and besides that Black never got close to near-death and had an unmentioned regeneration. So unless you want to argue that Black has a really suped up zenkai boost where it ignores the "near-death" rule, I say what he's getting aren't zenkais.

2) Source and context?

That was never said in the anime. The "god mind was connecting with Goku's body" was only uttered in the manga. Black specifically said that the bodies of the Saiyans are a gift from the gods since they get stronger the more they get hurt in 61.

And it was stated in 63 by Black that Goku will returned stronger while sipping tea, just before Mai tried to head shot him.

1. If that's the case, Black hit the lottery with his zenkais because no other Saiyan in the franchise has shown zenkais anything like his not even Goku aka the person's body he's using.

2. And you know for sure that Black doesn't mean through Goku is coming back stronger through training?

Black did not know RoSaT, he was even surprised by Vegeta's sudden surge of power.
He knew that in just one day Goku could not train and get so strong, so probably he was referring to zenkai