"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:35 pm

HeroR wrote: Not really since Trunks is the very reason Goku isn’t dead and there’s an extra Time Ring. It isn’t as impactful or as important as ‘Goku did a year of training in some room’.

It did mean something since it got Vegeta strong enough to wipe most of Freeza’s army.
1. An extra time-ring literally has nothing to do with Goku. Again they still don't need to mention that Trunks is a time travel to say he saved Goku. Also it wasn't some random training session, it was a training session to teach Gohan SSJ to possibly defeat Cell and save the planet.

2. And you know 1.33x can't make Vegeta do the same against 17/18, how? Also if you don't think the zenkais are anything like on Namek then how big you think they are?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:37 pm

YamiGoku wrote:I must be the only person on the fandom that has no problems with super power levels, i just watch the episodes and everything makes sense to me (so far).
Good for you, man
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MisteryOne » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:46 pm

YamiGoku wrote:I must be the only person on the fandom that has no problems with super power levels, i just watch the episodes and everything makes sense to me (so far).
So Goku surpassing Merged Zamasu in a beam clash and Blue Kaioken being way weaker than Beerus despite Vegeta being 10% of him made sense of you? Kefla being able to hurt SSG Goku despite Vegetto being stated as being nothing to him does as well? The Trio de Dangers surviving the Final Kame Hame Ha as well? SS2 Trunks being able to clash with Rosé Black? Just some examples, but I honestly can't see how it can work without headcanons. But hey, I would actually like to be like you.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Onibaku » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:49 pm

I see where YamiGoku comes from. I mainly try to focus not on the power level stuff most of the time. They're just there to ruin your experience lol. So I just enjoy the series' content and thats all. Never liked to discuss power levels anyway

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MisteryOne » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 pm

Doctor. wrote:
MisteryOne wrote: I'm not denying it's a problem or saying that bad writing in the past excuses the present. It's just that with how vague and inconsistent the anime is it doesn't really matter. Even if we know for sure where each character stands, you think that would last more than a couple of episodes? Ribrianne is a good example of that.
No, but one can hope the writers get their shit together, communicate and keep things consistent for more than 2 episodes at a time.

This isn't exclusive to powerlevels either. Several plot points have been largely forgotten, backtracked on or ignored until the last possible moment, where no build-up has been done to give it any weight or impact (case in point, Vegeta's transformation) presumably because of the lack of communication and coordination between the writing staff.
Trust me, I am such a stupid DB fanboy that everytime a new arc starts in the anime I reset about all the shit that happened in the past and just think "This shit looks so good and has so much potential, finally it's going to be actually good!" Well, or at least that was what I throught before I rewatch and reread both versions of the FT arc, and realized that Toei can't be helped, and that some of the biggest problems with Super as a whole actually come from Toriyama himself (I'm sure both Ikari and Vegeta's new form exist because of him, but I will try to write a thread about that when I have the time) Until the three big Ts realize that this madness is just an incredible mess and that they need to work together to create an actually good product, I doubt any of this will change unless the anime goes into a hiatus in March as some people are speculating, and the staff starts to actually try to be more consistent. It's such a waste of both potential for good stories and a great improvement on the animation side of the show.

That being said, Super is being a huge sucess, so I guess that your average DB fan is just happy to see Goku weekly again, despite he don't feeling like himself or maybe beeing battling Krillin using his SSBlue. So I suppose that as far as they care, if it's working it's good.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MisteryOne » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Onibaku wrote:I see where YamiGoku comes from. I mainly try to focus not on the power level stuff most of the time. They're just there to ruin your experience lol. So I just enjoy the series' content and thats all. Never liked to discuss power levels anyway
People really confuse power levels and power scaling. Power levels ARE a mess and they can ruin your experience, but a bad power scaling like the one Super actually matters a lot on the story because it kills the coherence. If you have learned how to just turn your brain off and just enjoy the flashy stuff is ok, but it shouldn't be like this. Power scaling has always been extremely important for DB.

I actually think a user on this forum has a signature that explains that very well, but I sadly can't recall the user neither that signature, lol.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Helios518 wrote:
HeroR wrote: Not really since Trunks is the very reason Goku isn’t dead and there’s an extra Time Ring. It isn’t as impactful or as important as ‘Goku did a year of training in some room’.

It did mean something since it got Vegeta strong enough to wipe most of Freeza’s army.
1. An extra time-ring literally has nothing to do with Goku. Again they still don't need to mention that Trunks is a time travel to say he saved Goku. Also it wasn't some random training session, it was a training session to teach Gohan SSJ to possibly defeat Cell and save the planet.

2. And you know 1.33x can't make Vegeta do the same against 17/18, how? Also if you don't think the zenkais are anything like on Namek then how big you think they are?
It would for Zamasu who would want to know about this person who broke the time taboo of the gods and saved Goku. And Zuni would have to mention Trunks since Goku was destined to die to the heart virus. Goku wasn’t supposed to still be alive. Also, Gohan isn’t important to Zamasu, so why would he cared about him? He isn’t like Trunks who broke gods’ law.

That’s my point. Saiyans most likely still got near death boosts, but they were nothing big.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:57 pm

Saiyans getting stronger mid-battle has been a thing since at least the Battle of Gods movie. Toriyama noted it the Battle of Gods Animanga.
Q:Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?

A:I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.
What Goku and Vegeta are doing now bookends what happened in the Battle of Gods arc. Goku grew stronger and stronger the longer he fought Beerus, breaking his limits repeatedly as the fight intensified to the point that Beerus got quite exasperated with him. Beerus spells it out in episode 13 as Super Saiyan God starts to "run out." Goku even rallies from near defeat and the point of exhaustion at least three times with greater power, once after having a hole stabbed in his gut. The two fights are similar to the point I'm wondering if Anime Jiren isn't supposed to be an expy of Battle of Gods Beerus.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by YamiGoku » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:04 pm

Noah wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:I must be the only person on the fandom that has no problems with super power levels, i just watch the episodes and everything makes sense to me (so far).
Good for you, man

Thanks, at last I'm not the only one who likes TFS :D
MisteryOne wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:I must be the only person on the fandom that has no problems with super power levels, i just watch the episodes and everything makes sense to me (so far).
So Goku surpassing Merged Zamasu in a beam clash and Blue Kaioken being way weaker than Beerus despite Vegeta being 10% of him made sense of you? Kefla being able to hurt SSG Goku despite Vegetto being stated as being nothing to him does as well? The Trio de Dangers surviving the Final Kame Hame Ha as well? SS2 Trunks being able to clash with Rosé Black? Just some examples, but I honestly can't see how it can work without headcanons. But hey, I would actually like to be like you.
*Goku vs Zamasu: when i look at that scene, i see Goku give it his all and Zamasu just barely pushing, to me, it looks like Zamasu wasnt giving his all, he wanted to kill Goku, but in his arrogance he couldn't bring himself to use his full power, i mean, he was pushing the ball with 2 fingers, and Goku giving his full power managed to pierce the giant energy ball with a focused kame ha (this is my interpretation)

*Beerus 10%: Beerus was lying? he also pretended like SSG and SSj1 (with the God ki absorved) were worth his time when now we know they weren't even close to him.

*Kefla; for me (and i understand that people don't want to accept this) kefla is just stronger than Super Vegetto, Caulifla is a prodige, she is just a very strong ssj2 and Kale is not just an homage, they took all Broly fans thoughts of him having his power always rising, and beeing able to fight anyone, and with that they make Kale. (just like they grabbed all the yamcha memes and they make him a joke); and together with protaras they make Kefla. It just feel natural to me that she is strong

*The trio: Because Goku and Vegeta didn't try to kill them?

*SSj2 Trunks: I don't remember the circumstances of every time they fought, but Black liked to toy and prolong fights like goku, to make himself stronger and because he liked it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:28 pm

Doctor. wrote:
MisteryOne wrote: I'm not denying it's a problem or saying that bad writing in the past excuses the present. It's just that with how vague and inconsistent the anime is it doesn't really matter. Even if we know for sure where each character stands, you think that would last more than a couple of episodes? Ribrianne is a good example of that.
No, but one can hope the writers get their shit together, communicate and keep things consistent for more than 2 episodes at a time.

This isn't exclusive to powerlevels either. Several plot points have been largely forgotten, backtracked on or ignored until the last possible moment, where no build-up has been done to give it any weight or impact (case in point, Vegeta's transformation) presumably because of the lack of communication and coordination between the writing staff.
Thats why a hiatus is needed, DBS needs to clean house so badly. Make Toshio the head writer, we already know he is a big DBS fan.

Btw if DBS continues I hope the ToP is tweaked, no more battle royals EVER.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:24 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:Saiyans getting stronger mid-battle has been a thing since at least the Battle of Gods movie. Toriyama noted it the Battle of Gods Animanga.
Q:Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?

A:I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.
What Goku and Vegeta are doing now bookends what happened in the Battle of Gods arc. Goku grew stronger and stronger the longer he fought Beerus, breaking his limits repeatedly as the fight intensified to the point that Beerus got quite exasperated with him. Beerus spells it out in episode 13 as Super Saiyan God starts to "run out." Goku even rallies from near defeat and the point of exhaustion at least three times with greater power, once after having a hole stabbed in his gut. The two fights are similar to the point I'm wondering if Anime Jiren isn't supposed to be an expy of Battle of Gods Beerus.
Saiyans getting stronger the more they fight is also outright stated by Vegeta in the Namek arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:24 pm

MisteryOne wrote:I'm not denying it's a problem or saying that bad writing in the past excuses the present. It's just that with how vague and inconsistent the anime is it doesn't really matter. Even if we know for sure where each character stands, you think that would last more than a couple of episodes? Ribrianne is a good example of that.
This was my Biggest Beef with the ToP up to this point and it is how inconsistent the writing has being with how each character stands up to the other in the battles and Honestly Ribrianne was one of the Biggest Victims of this writing.

How she fought at the start was High and even the Fight with Goku was good, but the writers seem to do a major Nerfing by the time they got to Goku with him just being in his Base form, while back in 102-103 Ribrianne could easily fight SSJ-Vegeta and going even with 17, yet just a few mins later in the ToP she is at base?! :eh:

So how you go from that to just base level with no reasoning, even a reasoning would be good, power drain, stamina, whatever but never a respectful reason. It caught some fans, especially Me, here by surprise when we talked about it and it just go worst form their with the nerfing of her.

This is not a problem with Ribrianne's character either, by 118 her story was done pretty well for a starting point, but the factor that the writing staff did not either communicate with how the power scaling should have looked or given reasons why her power level was going down so fast just left some of us suprised and honestly disappointed in the DBS writing staff.

It is just 1 show, this is not like Marvel or DC Comics doing a Major Crossover event to try and tell it in many books, just 1 show. So the factor that Toei could not get just a power scaling of Ribrianne or I know other characters right was a major disappointment in showing respect to writing characters with respect towards what they SHOULD be able to do.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:56 pm

MisteryOne wrote:
Onibaku wrote:I see where YamiGoku comes from. I mainly try to focus not on the power level stuff most of the time. They're just there to ruin your experience lol. So I just enjoy the series' content and thats all. Never liked to discuss power levels anyway
People really confuse power levels and power scaling. Power levels ARE a mess and they can ruin your experience, but a bad power scaling like the one Super actually matters a lot on the story because it kills the coherence. If you have learned how to just turn your brain off and just enjoy the flashy stuff is ok, but it shouldn't be like this. Power scaling has always been extremely important for DB.

I actually think a user on this forum has a signature that explains that very well, but I sadly can't recall the user neither that signature, lol.
The z anime was constantly like this though especially with the human characters, though before we even knew what filler was.

Dragon ball has always been dumb, it suppose to be dumb and I will gladly admit that super is dumber than z but z is dumber than ball and people seem to love that more plus GT was smarter than all 3

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:07 pm

MisteryOne wrote:
YamiGoku wrote:I must be the only person on the fandom that has no problems with super power levels, i just watch the episodes and everything makes sense to me (so far).
So Goku surpassing Merged Zamasu in a beam clash and Blue Kaioken being way weaker than Beerus despite Vegeta being 10% of him made sense of you? Kefla being able to hurt SSG Goku despite Vegetto being stated as being nothing to him does as well? The Trio de Dangers surviving the Final Kame Hame Ha as well? SS2 Trunks being able to clash with Rosé Black? Just some examples, but I honestly can't see how it can work without headcanons. But hey, I would actually like to be like you.
Definitely don’t forget Base Goku tanking his “strongest attack ever received” by Jiren in this episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Pannaliciour » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Saiyans getting stronger mid-battle has been a thing since at least the Battle of Gods movie. Toriyama noted it the Battle of Gods Animanga.
Q:Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?

A:I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.
What Goku and Vegeta are doing now bookends what happened in the Battle of Gods arc. Goku grew stronger and stronger the longer he fought Beerus, breaking his limits repeatedly as the fight intensified to the point that Beerus got quite exasperated with him. Beerus spells it out in episode 13 as Super Saiyan God starts to "run out." Goku even rallies from near defeat and the point of exhaustion at least three times with greater power, once after having a hole stabbed in his gut. The two fights are similar to the point I'm wondering if Anime Jiren isn't supposed to be an expy of Battle of Gods Beerus.
AND SUDDELY EVERTHING IN THE TOP MAKES SENSE (POWERLEVEL)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:51 pm

It's not even funny how much more interested I am in 124 and 125 compared to 122 and 123. Not that I disliked 122 or 123 it's just that outside of how Jiren fights I find him to be pretty boring compared to Dyspo and Toppo. Making a guess that Gohan will not be eliminated next episode likely that Dyspo is and that 17 will be knocked out in 125.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:00 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:It's not even funny how much more interested I am in 124 and 125 compared to 122 and 123. Not that I disliked 122 or 123 it's just that outside of how Jiren fights I find him to be pretty boring compared to Dyspo and Toppo. Making a guess that Gohan will not be eliminated next episode likely that Dyspo is and that 17 will be knocked out in 125.
I think it was mainly cause outside of the New Form Vegeta was going to get, really we where not going to likely get any major eliminations of the likes of Jiren, Goku or Vegeta in those episodes. They where more establishing where everyone stood in the final match episodes and now we get to the main event meat of the fights IMO.

Going forward will be more interesting, intense and unpredictable honestly and that will make for more interesting viewing.

My Overall feelings and My Hopes for the Finals is for Gohan, 17 and U11 to overall to do as well as they can and better then many expect. But overall excitement for the finals are just simple, mainly since my Universe 2 and My Brianne/Ribrianne are no longer in this, my Fandom stake in the ToP has great diminished, so I watch mostly for fun with no major horse in this Race anymore but my best hopes for the characters I have grown to like more. :wink:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:27 pm

CJStriker_CBR wrote:
CriticalThinker wrote:It's not even funny how much more interested I am in 124 and 125 compared to 122 and 123. Not that I disliked 122 or 123 it's just that outside of how Jiren fights I find him to be pretty boring compared to Dyspo and Toppo. Making a guess that Gohan will not be eliminated next episode likely that Dyspo is and that 17 will be knocked out in 125.
I think it was mainly cause outside of the New Form Vegeta was going to get, really we where not going to likely get any major eliminations of the likes of Jiren, Goku or Vegeta in those episodes. They where more establishing where everyone stood in the final match episodes and now we get to the main event meat of the fights IMO.

Going forward will be more interesting, intense and unpredictable honestly and that will make for more interesting viewing.

My Overall feelings and My Hopes for the Finals is for Gohan, 17 and U11 to overall to do as well as they can and better then many expect. But overall excitement for the finals are just simple, mainly since my Universe 2 and My Brianne/Ribrianne are no longer in this, my Fandom stake in the ToP has great diminished, so I watch mostly for fun with no major horse in this Race anymore but my best hopes for the characters I have grown to like more. :wink:
Guess that's why I also wasn't really interested in those two episodes despite them being good since much didn't happen besides Vegeta's new transformation. Doubt that they'll disappoint unless toei really drops the ball with any of the remaining fighters, which I doubt they will, hopefully. Lucky for me that I still have Toppo and 17 to look forward but I can see some finding the final less exciting with their favourites out. At the very least we still got the manga version of the TOP coming out soon so we can root for our favourite characters again. Here's hoping Ribrianne does better in that version.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Araki » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:30 am

YamiGoku wrote: *The trio: Because Goku and Vegeta didn't try to kill them?

It still baffles me how some people missed the fact the strongest characters constantly had to hold back in the ToP to avoid killing, despite that being spelled out on screen a few times. Not that i expect much from power level nerds, anyway.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 am

"By the seat of your pants" has always defined Toriyama's writing and Dragon Ball as a whole. Do I wish things were more consistent? Of course. Besides the examples already mentioned, you've also got strange coincidences like an exhausted Goku and Vegeta duo surviving an enraged attack from bulked up Merged Zamasu that was meant for Vegetto, Base Black surviving an onslaught of blows from SSJB Vegeta, the Trunks posing any kind of threat to anyone debacle, Cabba prompting Freeza into using his golden transformation, Jiren failing to eliminate Kale after blasting her off into the horizon, Toppo not eliminating Base Goku or at least incapacitating him with his Justice Flash attack when he had the chance, Roshi dodging a blast from Kunshi (a character that's powerful enough to restrict Hit's movements and make him pause), ect.

What's strange is that Dragon Ball original has somehow come out looking the most consistent. Granted, you have a few shortsighted inconsistencies like Goku traveling through Space to the Moon (his survival could be rationalised to an extent by saying that he made it there and back in less than 15 seconds which is how long it would take for a person to lose consciousness in Space), but for the most part the power scaling and strength gains were leveled and consistent. It was only at the start of Z that things began to grow out of control with the persistent power inflation and self-created need by Toriyama for his characters to reach extreme levels in a short amount of time.

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