"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

A rebrand will be literally be back to square one it will undo everything they've done, the marketing dept I assume are run by a bunch of jokers (brilliant idea to start marketing Goku's new form when the show is f**king over!) any excuse not to market anything they won't so the fact we got here I don't want all that undone.

Isn't Super's success a point in favor of a rebranding though? It shows that the new series branding creates excitement and doesn't lose the old market, which is why they're finally phasing out the "Z" from some products.

One of the main points suggesting they might be considering a rebrand is that the movie has been announced as just a "Dragonball" movie rather than a "Dragonball Super" movie.

My maint point being it took them 1.5 years to actually do somethings and brand DBS properly. It was frustrating and if it's another brand we'll do this all again and the new brand may not even be successful that's the risk. They failed previously twice they now have had a successful rebrand just stick with it.

[TheMikado]

A rebrand will be literally be back to square one it will undo everything they've done, the marketing dept I assume are run by a bunch of jokers (brilliant idea to start marketing Goku's new form when the show is f**king over!) any excuse not to market anything they won't so the fact we got here I don't want all that undone.

Isn't Super's success a point in favor of a rebranding though? It shows that the new series branding creates excitement and doesn't lose the old market, which is why they're finally phasing out the "Z" from some products.

One of the main points suggesting they might be considering a rebrand is that the movie has been announced as just a "Dragonball" movie rather than a "Dragonball Super" movie.

Exactly, just look at Pokémon’s rebranding. The anime and marketing correspond to merchandise sales. Continuing the same brand only makes sense if the anime itself were the main product and needed to sell based on brand. Case in point the BoGs movie is under the Z brand name because the movie was the product that needed to sell and the Z was established. A rebrand would be to introduce a new set of merchandise and series and if the merchandise is the made product than it makes sense to do constant refreshes similar to other anime with similar objectives.

[Neon Z]

A rebrand will be literally be back to square one it will undo everything they've done, the marketing dept I assume are run by a bunch of jokers (brilliant idea to start marketing Goku's new form when the show is f**king over!) any excuse not to market anything they won't so the fact we got here I don't want all that undone.

Isn't Super's success a point in favor of a rebranding though? It shows that the new series branding creates excitement and doesn't lose the old market, which is why they're finally phasing out the "Z" from some products.

One of the main points suggesting they might be considering a rebrand is that the movie has been announced as just a "Dragonball" movie rather than a "Dragonball Super" movie.

My maint point being it took them 1.5 years to actually do somethings and brand DBS properly. It was frustrating and if it's another brand we'll do this all again and the new brand may not even be successful that's the risk. They failed previously twice they now have had a successful rebrand just stick with it.

GT was GT, and Kai just showed that rebranding Reruns wasn't enough, they needed a new show. Next time they might rebrand quicker since Super already set a precedent that it can work.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Isn't Super's success a point in favor of a rebranding though? It shows that the new series branding creates excitement and doesn't lose the old market, which is why they're finally phasing out the "Z" from some products.

One of the main points suggesting they might be considering a rebrand is that the movie has been announced as just a "Dragonball" movie rather than a "Dragonball Super" movie.

My maint point being it took them 1.5 years to actually do somethings and brand DBS properly. It was frustrating and if it's another brand we'll do this all again and the new brand may not even be successful that's the risk. They failed previously twice they now have had a successful rebrand just stick with it.

GT was GT, and Kai just showed that rebranding Reruns wasn't enough, they needed a new show. Next time they might rebrand quicker since Super already set a precedent that it can work.

That would require planning and actual work! No chance in hell that's happening not with these bunch of lazy jokers in charge.

[TheMikado]

Isn't Super's success a point in favor of a rebranding though? It shows that the new series branding creates excitement and doesn't lose the old market, which is why they're finally phasing out the "Z" from some products.

One of the main points suggesting they might be considering a rebrand is that the movie has been announced as just a "Dragonball" movie rather than a "Dragonball Super" movie.

My maint point being it took them 1.5 years to actually do somethings and brand DBS properly. It was frustrating and if it's another brand we'll do this all again and the new brand may not even be successful that's the risk. They failed previously twice they now have had a successful rebrand just stick with it.

GT was GT, and Kai just showed that rebranding Reruns wasn't enough, they needed a new show. Next time they might rebrand quicker since Super already set a precedent that it can work.

It depends on measurements of "success".

From the producers we have two different measurements. Ratings and merchandising and you need both.

GT actually has a higher average ranking than Super and sells/has sold a ton of product.
Kai had very good ratings but did not sell much due to essentially being reruns of a decades old product.
I really do not see an issue with a new show with a new title and branding. If they felt the Super brand were strong enough to continue from a financial stance they would continue it. What executive is going to toss away money?
It's clear they and their board do not see a value in continuing Super as is and the product and branding has run its course in terms of the anime.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't buy this Kai did bad cuz it's just reruns. They've slapped what seems as much Z only related product with the DBS logo as actual DBS related stuff. They're having their cake and eating it too. And now they're using the DBS brand to market GT stuff! Incredible. The f**king cheek.

[TheMikado]

I don't buy this Kai did bad cuz it's just reruns. They've slapped what seems as much Z only related product with the DBS logo as actual DBS related stuff. They're having their cake and eating it too. And now they're using the DBS brand to market GT stuff! Incredible. The f**king cheek.

Not sure I understand this.

Kai did very well in the ratings department. It was cancelled because it didn't sell enough merchandise. Kai the show, did well but failed to push merchandise.
What GT or Z-only stuff are they marketing under the Super brand? I've seen more Super stuff fall under the Z brand if anything. The DBZF game for starters.

[kinisking]

I don't buy this Kai did bad cuz it's just reruns. They've slapped what seems as much Z only related product with the DBS logo as actual DBS related stuff. They're having their cake and eating it too. And now they're using the DBS brand to market GT stuff! Incredible. The f**king cheek.

Not sure I understand this.

Kai did very well in the ratings department. It was cancelled because it didn't sell enough merchandise. Kai the show, did well but failed to push merchandise.
What GT or Z-only stuff are they marketing under the Super brand? I've seen more Super stuff fall under the Z brand if anything. The DBZF game for starters.

DB fighterZ is less about branding it under z and more about it being a "clever " name because it sounds like fighters.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't buy this Kai did bad cuz it's just reruns. They've slapped what seems as much Z only related product with the DBS logo as actual DBS related stuff. They're having their cake and eating it too. And now they're using the DBS brand to market GT stuff! Incredible. The f**king cheek.

Not sure I understand this.

Kai did very well in the ratings department. It was cancelled because it didn't sell enough merchandise. Kai the show, did well but failed to push merchandise.
What GT or Z-only stuff are they marketing under the Super brand? I've seen more Super stuff fall under the Z brand if anything. The DBZF game for starters.

DBF is not Z branded it's under the universal DB brand regardless of how they stylised the S into a Z it's still pronounced Fighters . Not a single DBS related has been under the Z brand.

Anyway my point is I know Kai ultimately was canned cuz of Merch but people say it's sold poorly cuz it just a re run and that's what I am arguing and imo that's not the case as evidenced with DBS, why I think it did bad? Cuz O think they overwhelmed the market initially which is why they were so cautious with DBS.

Example? Just look at the example I posted prior and you'll find all sorts of examples here.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Not really it wouldn't as instead of a new form you could instead ya know....have 17, Freeza, and Vegeta work together....rather than just have the former 2 essentially become useless. It'd be also a far more interesting dive into character interaction as well. None of which needs a new form.

It's not pressuring Jiren. He's not hurt or threatened. The minute he wants to try, it'll be just like how he crushed SSBKK Goku...which is the same level Vegeta is on....which accomplishes nothing. Not to mention how everything points to Ultra Instinct being the only hope as they keep on saying can Goku get it back so he can challenge Jiren. Anything lesser is not of any help. At best the powered up Toppo may go to Vegeta...and even then it makes the other 2 remaining people feel completely unneeded.

He's not though. At least not in the way ya think. That would mean Goku somehow got ridiculously stronger than his previous SSB state which they made a huge deal about how he's supposed to be exhausted, not getting stronger.

The form which Kais go on about, that also Vegeta trusts in Trunks to stay back in the Future as well...Compared to the new form that just lets him also still not be of any real threat. That is heavily overshadowed by a previous form that makes his completely irrelevant. Ultra Instinct is the form we know is going to be the difference maker, not some form that cutely allows Vegeta to be on par with a weaker Goku. And like I said beyond letting Vegeta reach a lower form of Goku, what does it serve? How does it serve his character outside of power? It doesn't.

It's not at all just about family, it's his biggest priority, while improving himself from his past failures is his other one. They even say it during his training. Not to mention a lot of tournament problems were because half the team refused to be team players. And even then at least family is something he's mentioned as his big role. It was part of his recruitment. Unlike Vegeta who need I saySaying that is a big part of Vegeta is like saying it's a big part of Goku. Which it isn't for either of them. It makes him not at all different from Goku. Self improvement is Vegeta's goal, not his family. He'd have joined in no matter what so long as there was a fight.

He does not have a new motivation, it's the same one he always has. And it doesn't change anything he didn't already think about before. The only difference is power level and that's it. Trunks at least had it as him rising up from suffering, watching how hopeless the situation is and rising from the ashes. Vegeta gets a inconsequential form that we all know is second fiddle to Ultra Instinct and is not going to be any sort of game changer when that was established as Ultra Instinct.

How Freeza, 17 and Vegeta working together would they be able to stop someone like Toppo after the power up of EP 125? Honestly, I'd really like to see them working together (this was one of the things I wanted most in the tournament, but at the beginning everyone just ignored Gohan's strategy), but that would only get the 3 out of Toppo quickly, and everything would be in Goku's hands again (making everything even more predictable).

And Goku really is MUCH stronger than before. In EP 123, according to Vermoud, Jiren used a power he had not seen for a long time (that is, he did not use that power against UI Goku), and even then Goku SSB was able to take it. (he held out much more than Goku on EP 109, against an even more suppressed Jiren).
That is, Goku and Vegeta are holding out against a much stronger Jiren than in the fight against UI. And they would never be able to do that using only a common SSB.
And that's why Jiren would not defeat Goku SSB KK x20 as easily as last time

Vegeta relied on Trunks not solely because of his new transformation, but because Trunks practically begged Vegeta to return to the past. And that was the only way Goku and Vegeta could find a way to defeat Black, they had no choice.

The ONLY quote about Trunks' transformation into the whole saga was against Merged Zamasu, in which Gowasu questions whether that was the power of rage, just that. Everyone treated her as if she did not exist, and she was not relevant to Black.

And the UI is something that Goku can not even activate alone. Other than that, all he has is the SSB KK x20, and now Vegeta has achieved that power as well. So yes, somehow that does. And it's something important for them to be able to face Jiren
Anyway, it's obvious that Jiren is not using all his power, but he's being pressured and that's clear in the episode. He's being pressured using far more power than before, and that would not be possible if Vegeta had not gotten his new transformation

And it makes no sense for you to say that Goku and Vegeta see their families in the same way.
Vegeta does not fight for his family, unlike Gohan, but she is also part of Vegeta's motivation (which involves simply getting stronger). This is clear in FT Saga, in which Vegeta gets extremely angry at what Black did to his family

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vegeta himself says on EP 60 that he is not fighting Black for his own sake, but for Trunks and his future.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

So Vegeta's family is not their main motivation, but it's part of it, much more than Chichi and Goten are part of Goku's motivation

The point is that Vegeta not only has his family as motivation now, but Kyabe and the Saiyans of U6. It makes no sense that you try to say that Gohan has "much more motivation," and that in addition to his family, he only sought to correct his mistakes

It's the same as Goku as if you want to pull that shit, need I remind of that scene where Goku gets super pissed off when it's said Black killed Chi Chi and Goten? He went absolutely ballistic.

At this point all I can add to this conversation is we wait to see how everything plays out. So then there's more to talk about and less to speculate about. I'd just be talking about how power levels mean jack shit in Super so even trying to use them as any form of leverage is pointless to justify anything. I'm just repeating my points and this is going nowhere. I could very well be wrong once the last couple episodes drop. At this point I'm just gonna wait and see if my mind is changed.

I see what they tried to do for Vegeta, but they have done a shit job in the execution. Hopefully they can salvage this before the end.

I agree that power levels in DBS are very inconsistent, but by all accounts, Goku somehow managed to evolve and get stronger over the start of the tournament, since he is fighting Jiren better than before, the same to Vegeta. So they really are much more powerful than before.

[TheMikado]

I don't buy this Kai did bad cuz it's just reruns. They've slapped what seems as much Z only related product with the DBS logo as actual DBS related stuff. They're having their cake and eating it too. And now they're using the DBS brand to market GT stuff! Incredible. The f**king cheek.

Not sure I understand this.

Kai did very well in the ratings department. It was cancelled because it didn't sell enough merchandise. Kai the show, did well but failed to push merchandise.
What GT or Z-only stuff are they marketing under the Super brand? I've seen more Super stuff fall under the Z brand if anything. The DBZF game for starters.

DB fighterZ is less about branding it under z and more about it being a "clever " name because it sounds like fighters.

DBF is not Z branded it's under the universal DB brand regardless of how they stylised the S into a Z it's still pronounced Fighters . Not a single DBS related has been under the Z brand.

Anyway my point is I know Kai ultimately was canned cuz of Merch but people say it's sold poorly cuz it just a re run and that's what I am arguing and imo that's not the case as evidenced with DBS, why I think it did bad? Cuz O think they overwhelmed the market initially which is why they were so cautious with DBS.

Example? Just look at the example I posted prior and you'll find all sorts of examples here.

Come-on, The capitalized Z is a very clear branding. otherwise what significance would a prominent capitalized Z have for a dragon ball game? It's very clearly branding.
As far as the branding of things, I looked through the thread and didn't see what you meant by Z only things being branded as Super.
I did do a google search for each brand and found they are pretty loose with the branding for instance finding SSJ4 under kai or Vegetto with both GT and Z branding. It's clear the branding doesn't matter much to them and will throw everything under whatever branding is currently selling at the moment.

[Totamo]

My maint point being it took them 1.5 years to actually do somethings and brand DBS properly. It was frustrating and if it's another brand we'll do this all again and the new brand may not even be successful that's the risk. They failed previously twice they now have had a successful rebrand just stick with it.

GT was GT, and Kai just showed that rebranding Reruns wasn't enough, they needed a new show. Next time they might rebrand quicker since Super already set a precedent that it can work.

It depends on measurements of "success".

From the producers we have two different measurements. Ratings and merchandising and you need both.

GT actually has a higher average ranking than Super and sells/has sold a ton of product.
Kai had very good ratings but did not sell much due to essentially being reruns of a decades old product.
I really do not see an issue with a new show with a new title and branding. If they felt the Super brand were strong enough to continue from a financial stance they would continue it. What executive is going to toss away money?
It's clear they and their board do not see a value in continuing Super as is and the product and branding has run its course in terms of the anime.

You don't really need ratings, not in this day and age. Naruto had abysmal ratings but went on for 700 episodes.


GT was canceled because people were tired of dragon ball and it did nothing new to rebound it It was the final nail in the coffin and dragon ball was official dead for years.



Super isn't being canceled, its ending and they are going to use its momentum to launch a new movie then a new series.



If super wasn't a strong product, we wouldn't be getting anything new because the same happened with GT. They would just stick to video games

[Noah]

GT was canceled because people were tired of Dragon Ball and it did nothing new to rebound it...

Your source, please.

[dbs fanboy]

GT was canceled because people were tired of Dragon Ball and it did nothing new to rebound it...

Do we even know why GT stopped airing? Because i don't think we've ever gotten any kind of explanation.

[t0ffe3m4n]

I'm gonna stay the course and maintain that Goku, Frieza & Jiren will be the last three remaining. The tournament will go to time with Jiren unable to eliminate Goku.

[Totamo]

GT was canceled because people were tired of Dragon Ball and it did nothing new to rebound it...

Your source, please.

You never heard of franchise fatigue? Well, all evidence point to that.


If you want an exact source telling you word for word why a toei exclusive series was cancelled, you ain't ever getting that publicly. Same with kai, but everyone tells me it was canceled for poor merchandise sales.

[Totamo]

GT was canceled because people were tired of Dragon Ball and it did nothing new to rebound it...

Do we even know why GT stopped airing? Because i don't think we've ever gotten any kind of explanation.

The ratings, merchandise and the GT files indicating the series the past the evil dragon arc all point to franchise fatigue.

[Xeogran]

Nonetheless, GT had a good, memorable ending and the only closure to the franchise we ever got. Now let's see if Super can get a good one too.

[Kantico]

I want an arc retelling the end of Z (I want to see the complete tournament!!! And I want to see more of the characters at these ages!!!!), an arc retelling GT (from zero, please), an arc post GT, and, finally, an arc in the year of future trunks with all the characters alive ("z" future trunks, then "super" future trunks)... then... maybe... an arc in post future trunks... and an arc adapting freely concepts of dragon ball online, heroes an xenoverse 1&2.

what about the multiverse issue (news fighters, angels and gods from super)? ... mmm... maybe some of the arcs that I said could treat about that

[Black Hawk]

Do we even know why GT stopped airing? Because i don't think we've ever gotten any kind of explanation.

The ratings, merchandise and the GT files indicating the series the past the evil dragon arc all point to franchise fatigue.

That and interest in Dragon Ball had begun to wane significantly starting in the Majin Boo arc.