"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Slaythe]

Seems like this time, vegeta will get eliminated. I dont see what se he can achieve after surpassing a god of destruction.

17 outlasting the Prince of all Saiyans? Man, I'm starting to dig the theory that there's someone on Toei staff that's a huge 17 fanboy

He could use the love considering how he is treated outside of Super.

If Vegeta goes out with a bang I don't see any problem.

It's clear 17 is still in thanks to his tactics and utility powers. He's not actually beating GoD Toppo with punches you know.

[Noah]

...so I guess that Goku, #17, Roshi and Vegeta remain the only U7 fighters who actually exceeded expectations.

Please, Goku exceeding expectations is commonly expected as his the main character, so it's not really a big deal.

It's clear 17 is still in thanks to his tactics and utility powers. He's not actually beating GoD Toppo with punches you know.

Sure, I guess abusing his Android Barrier skill is now praised a great tactician work.

[Professor Freeza]

...so I guess that Goku, #17, Roshi and Vegeta remain the only U7 fighters who actually exceeded expectations.

Please, Goku exceeding expectations is commonly expected as his the main character, so it's not really a big deal.

It's clear 17 is still in thanks to his tactics and utility powers. He's not actually beating GoD Toppo with punches you know.

Sure, I guess abusing his Android Barrier skill is now praised a great tactician work.

How is Goku abusing the SSB Kaioken or Freeza abusing his finger beams any different than this?

[Michsi]

We're talking about story, which Z has never been acclaimed for even at its peak. And Super did improved Z's storytelling, for those who are honest about how weak the story in Z was after Namek.

Again, storytelling includes execution and tone setting, not just good/original ideas.

I'd take any arc of Z over Champa arc and ROF any day.

Super uses shades of grey trope, which most modern anime uses.

It still reusing the same trope over and over. One of the reason Zamasu is so fondly remembered is that the series finally had a proper villain it could call its own.

Beerus can't have a breakdown like Cell because Beerus never pretended to be the strongest or perfect. He knows where he stands in the universe, even more so in the movie where he tells Goku that he isn't the strongest, that's Whis, and they could be fighters in other universes that surpasses even him. That isn't like Cell at all who couldn't comprehend anything stronger than himself. You're taking one shared quirked between Cell and Beerus and trying to say that they're alike.

The depth of their motive are alike. It's as unimpressive and simple as it could be. I want to fight to prove my superiority, I want to fight because I crave a rival - I fail to see how one is more complex than the other.

And the 'lack of tension' is because Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball.

Remember that scene with 18 futilely charging at Cell in a desperate attempt to survive all the while screaming? Remember when they all turned their heads to see Freeza standing on that cliff after they had given their all to defeat him? Remember when Buu appeared on the lookout before the kids were done with their training?
I didn't imagine that.
The scene of future Bulma, Chichi and Goten being murdered was powerful, but nothing comes close to Krillin getting blown up.

[Nickolaidas]

...so I guess that Goku, #17, Roshi and Vegeta remain the only U7 fighters who actually exceeded expectations.

Please, Goku exceeding expectations is commonly expected as his the main character, so it's not really a big deal.

It's clear 17 is still in thanks to his tactics and utility powers. He's not actually beating GoD Toppo with punches you know.

Sure, I guess abusing his Android Barrier skill is now praised a great tactician work.

But if it is expected to exceed expectations, then he's not exceeding the expected expectations.

[Noah]

How is Goku abusing the SSB Kaioken or Freeza abusing his finger beams any different than this?

Well, as for Freeza I can give you that, but are you really comparing Goku tactics used in ToP with 17?

But if it is expected to exceed expectations, then he's not exceeding the expected expectations.

What?

[IndieBooToo]

So toppo will drop both freeza and 17 at the same time, while vegeta ignores toppo to fight jiren? Or will toppo get eliminated half way in episode 126, and then vegeta will charge at jiren!

It comes across as Vegeta changes his focus from Toppo back to Jiren. The spoilers have been wrong before so we will see.

[Ultimately I think it’ll come down to 4 God of Destruction level fighters going at it.

You mean 3. Goku, Jiren and Toppo. It will come down to those 3 after Vegeta does his job.

[sintzu]

You lying.........

Shippuden is straight up like super in the sense it's only about 2 characters.

Sauske is one of the most unlikable characters in the anime medium.

He got away with becoming a terrorist.

His hack jutsu and his family's stupid cumbersome lore dominated the entire fourth shinobi war.

Where the hell would Vegeta go without looking like an asshole for ditching his family ?

That asshole who ditched his daughter for 12 years and tried to murder his daughter on site ?

So Sasuke never left the village, got special training from Orochimaru before "kiiling" him, forming his OWN team, taking down 2 Akatsuke members in Dedara and Itachi, temporarely took down the killer bee, Fought the Raikage, killed Danzu who was the soon to be Hokage, fighting Kakashi and Naruto, helping Itachi stop Kaboto before playing a major role in stopping the war ? If none of that happened then it looks like I've been watching the wrong show this whole time.

Why are you leaving out part 1 of the manga ? anyway, in Shippuden Gaara got to fight Dedara, Asuma got to fight Hidan, Jiraya got to fight the (at the time) leader of the Akatsuke Pain, Shikamaru killed Hidan, Kakashi and Choji fought Kakuzu and Pain and Guy fought Madara to name a few of the amazing moments the other characters got in Shippuden. When did Piccolo fight and take down someone like Hidan ? Remember Roshi's "fight" with Piccolo ? that was a joke compared to Jiraya's with Pain.

Wheather you like him or not, you can't deny the amount of important screentime he got, something Vegeta's fans can only dream of.

No, he would've been killed or put away for life if he didn't play a major role in stopping the war. Orochimaru thinks that he and Sasuke were only let go to be useful if the time ever came like another war.

Madara, Obito and Itachi played very large roles in how the entire history of the village was formed so of course their lore was important.

I said nothing about ditching his family, just go on his own adventures like Whis sending him and Goku to completey different places to take care of something.

He left to make up for his sins and to track down someone possibly stronger than Kaguya which would've put her in danger had he let things go. He just saw his daughter after fighting a kid with Sharingan so is it that surprising he mistaked her for another one ?

[Professor Freeza]

How is Goku abusing the SSB Kaioken or Freeza abusing his finger beams any different than this?

Well, as for Freeza I can give you that, but are you really comparing Goku tactics used in ToP with 17?

SSB Kaioken is no tactic lol

[sintzu]

I think 17 and Freeza will be knocked over by Toppo before Toppo will face Vegeta.

That or they decide to play a dirty April fools joke on Vegeta and just step aside to watch him get his ass kicked.

What if Goku was eliminated? That would be quite a twist!

No way, especially not with the show ending.

Also, it’s not looking good for us Vegeta fans!

Fighting Jiren AND Toppo ? how is that not good ? The only thing that's better is him somehow holding them off or taking one down with him.

Vegeta vs Toppo AND Jiren? Not what I was expecting at all. Dafuq happens to Goku ?

Wasn't expecting that either. The only thing I can think of is that 17 and Freeza are out and Goku needs time to activate UI so Vegeta is going to hold both of them off with plot Ki.

[Noah]

SSB Kaioken is no tactic lol

Don't be silly, I'm not talking about techniques, but tactics, like the way Goku almost managed to ring out Jiren using the Kienzan, the way he defeated Kefla and his strategy against Dyspo in their first encounter.

What if Goku was eliminated? That would be quite a twist!

No way, especially not with the show ending.

I said eliminated, not dead mate. U7 could still be winner somehow.

[Lord Beerus]

The episode preview summaries seem to imply that Freeza may the dust (which would be a gigantic waste of his epic return), but I'm not going to jump the gun on that scenerio. However, Vegeta going up against Jiren and Toppo seems like suicide.

[HeroR]

We're talking about story, which Z has never been acclaimed for even at its peak. And Super did improved Z's storytelling, for those who are honest about how weak the story in Z was after Namek.

Again, storytelling includes execution and tone setting, not just good/original ideas.

I'd take any arc of Z over Champa arc and ROF any day.

Super uses shades of grey trope, which most modern anime uses.

It still reusing the same trope over and over. One of the reason Zamasu is so fondly remembered is that the series finally had a proper villain it could call its own.

Beerus can't have a breakdown like Cell because Beerus never pretended to be the strongest or perfect. He knows where he stands in the universe, even more so in the movie where he tells Goku that he isn't the strongest, that's Whis, and they could be fighters in other universes that surpasses even him. That isn't like Cell at all who couldn't comprehend anything stronger than himself. You're taking one shared quirked between Cell and Beerus and trying to say that they're alike.

The depth of their motive are alike. It's as unimpressive and simple as it could be. I want to fight to prove my superiority, I want to fight because I crave a rival - I fail to see how one is more complex than the other.

And the 'lack of tension' is because Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball.

Remember that scene with 18 futilely charging at Cell in a desperate attempt to survive all the while screaming? Remember when they all turned their heads to see Freeza standing on that cliff after they had given their all to defeat him? Remember when Buu appeared on the lookout before the kids were done with their training?
I didn't imagine that.
The scene of future Bulma, Chichi and Goten being murdered was powerful, but nothing comes close to Krillin getting blown up.

And my point is that execution and tone wasn't that good in Z, otherwise you wouldn't have fans who outright forget plot-points in Z, but can remember almost every action scene. And I would take Champa and Resurrection 'F' over the Saiyan and Cell Saga. What is your point here? Champa objectively told a better than the last half of Z because it wasn't wholly depending on everyone acting like idiots to keep the plot going past it's naturally conclusion. Resurrection 'F' also had Freeza learn from his mistakes as seen in this arc, where people made almost the exact same mistakes in the Buu Saga as they did in the Cell Saga, which isn't good storytelling. Cell Saga went as far as to rewrite 18's character just so she could be absorbed.

No it isn't. Super using the entire broad antagonist usage. You have Beerus who is closer to a chaotic-neutral who isn't even, but his nature puts him against the heroes. Champa is the same except he's more of a loose cannon. Hit is completely neutral who is only against the heroes because of a tournament who become friendly, but is still neutral. We have Zamasu who thinks he's doing good, but he's really an evil asshole. We have Zen'o who is pure-hearted and innocent, but his innocences allow him do some very mess up things, but he's still classified as a force of good for the most part. We have the Pride Trooper who are heroes in their universe, but are against U7 because of the situation. Then we had U6 in this arc that switched between being allies with U7 and antagonists. Super didn't play the same troper over and over again as you're implying. Zamasu is well remember because he was a good villain and the only one that really fit into the common villain trope used in Dragon Ball.

And? Devil in the details. Beerus wanted a proper battle since he hasn't had one in a long time. Cell just wanted to show off his perfect body.

I remembered, never felt tension in those scenes. For me to feel tension, I have to believed that the character can a) lose b) even if they win, the loses are heavy and can't be reverse. Nothing in Dragon Ball and Z stuck. No one died forever outside of Nail, Gura, and 16, so why should I pretend those scene had any real stakes? Compared that the Future Trunks Saga where everyone who died actually stayed dead and later got erased from existence. People talked about the 'false tension in Resurrection 'F'' with no irony that false tension was all Z had going for it.

[sintzu]

I said eliminated, not dead mate. U7 could still be winner somehow.

If U7 is in Vegeta's hands then it was nice knowing them.

[Nero<>Akira]

We can only wait and see how this will turn out. i just want it to be good, look good, and flow amazingly. This is the climax of a multiversal fucking tournament that's deciding the fates of 8 universes.

[Noah]

If U7 is in Vegeta's hands then it was nice knowing them.

And that coming from a Vegeta fan? You should be ashamed of yourself. If it was namekiansaiyan he would wish U11 a good riddance.

[Slaythe]

Sure, I guess abusing his Android Barrier skill is now praised a great tactician work.

Wait are you trolling or are you implying he hasn't showed a multitude of applications of his barrier yet ?

From traps to melee counters, he has done A LOT of unique things.

[Nickolaidas]

If U7 is in Vegeta's hands then it was nice knowing them.

And that coming from a Vegeta fan? You should be ashamed of yourself. If it was namekiansaiyan he would wish U11 a good riddance.

Hah! I guess one can be a fan but still have his feet on the ground.

Shocker!

[Noah]

Wait are you trolling or are you implying he hasn't showed a multitude of applications of his barrier yet? From traps to melee counters, he has done A LOT of unique things.

No, I'm saying that he relies too much on that skill and rarely shows something different in his fights.

Hah! I guess one can be a fan but still have his feet on the ground. Shocker!

But, this is just no fun. We need to have more people here with unrealistic expectations towards characters they like

[Professor Freeza]

I said eliminated, not dead mate. U7 could still be winner somehow.

If U7 is in Vegeta's hands then it was nice knowing them.

Are you truly a Vegeta fan?

The episode preview summaries seem to imply that Freeza may the dust (which would be a gigantic waste of his epic return),

Super is ending. There's no payoff anyway. I dont see anything wrong of him going down, especially when he was almost eliminated by Dyspo no less.

SSB Kaioken is no tactic lol

Don't be silly, I'm not talking about techniques, but tactics, like the way Goku almost managed to ring out Jiren using the Kienzan, the way he defeated Kefla and his strategy against Dyspo in their first encounter.

I was ONLY talking about Goku's SSB Kaioken.