Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Legion]

Spoilers say "true power as a GoD candidate"...so maybe Toppo is still below to the current Gods but we'll see. Also, nothing suggest that Jiren is still>>>this new Toppo. God Toppo is more stronger than the previous Toppo.

Also, based on spoilers for 126, jiren seems to be above god level in general.

Spoilers for 126 didn't say anything about Jiren being above God level in general. Actually, the spoilers say that Jiren will fight Vegeta with Toppo.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Spoilers say "true power as a GoD candidate"...so maybe Toppo is still below to the current Gods but we'll see. Also, nothing suggest that Jiren is still>>>this new Toppo. God Toppo is more stronger than the previous Toppo.

Also, based on spoilers for 126, jiren seems to be above god level in general.

Spoilers for 126 didn't say anything about Jiren being above God level in general. Actually, the spoilers say that Jiren will fight Vegeta with Toppo.

Haha. Funny if you think toppo is going to be above someone who is above a god of destruction. But the likely hood of jiren being above god level is very likely. They are saving his true power for a reason.

[ZombieVito]

Top Strongest beings we seen so far (excluding Zen Oh, Grand Priest, Angels, Merged Zamasu)
Based on the ANime and Manga (Just my Opinion though, could be wrong)

1.) Geene and Beerus
2.) Champa, Quitela, Liquir, Helles

3.) Jiren, Rumshii, Belmod
4.) Arak, Iwne

5.) Mosco, Sidra (Barrier Specialist and was losing to Champa)
6.) Ultra Instinct Goku

7.) Toppo (in Episode 125 as God of Destruction), SSB Vegito
8.) SSB2 Vegeta, SSBKKx20 Goku

9.) Hit, Anizara
10.) SSJ2 Kefla

Vegetto is on par or stronger than Beerus.

[Lord Beerus]

Top Strongest beings we seen so far (excluding Zen Oh, Grand Priest, Angels, Merged Zamasu)
Based on the ANime and Manga (Just my Opinion though, could be wrong)

1.) Geene and Beerus
2.) Champa, Quitela, Liquir, Helles

3.) Jiren, Rumshii, Belmod
4.) Arak, Iwne

5.) Mosco, Sidra (Barrier Specialist and was losing to Champa)
6.) Ultra Instinct Goku

7.) Toppo (in Episode 125 as God of Destruction), SSB Vegito
8.) SSB2 Vegeta, SSBKKx20 Goku

9.) Hit, Anizara
10.) SSJ2 Kefla

Vegetto is on par or stronger than Beerus.

Since when?

[Noah]

Since when?

He will reference that one time Kaioshin said he never felt anything like Vegetto Blue, but yes that coming from someone that had no idea about Beerus existence nor seen his full power.

[Lord Beerus]

Since when?

He will reference that one time Kaioshin said he never felt anything like Vegetto Blue, but yes that coming from someone that had no idea about Beerus existence nor seen his full power.

Yeah, Kaioshin is last person who should be seen a trustworthy source of credible information when it comes to strength. The guy doesn't know much about his own universe.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Since when?

He will reference that one time Kaioshin said he never felt anything like Vegetto Blue, but yes that coming from someone that had no idea about Beerus existence nor seen his full power.

Yeah, Kaioshin is last person who should be seen a trustworthy source of credible information when it comes to strength. The guy doesn't know much about his own universe.

He's only ever been useful for gauging that, yes, Cell was the point at which he was well and truly surpassed

[Legion]

Spoilers say "true power as a GoD candidate"...so maybe Toppo is still below to the current Gods but we'll see. Also, nothing suggest that Jiren is still>>>this new Toppo. God Toppo is more stronger than the previous Toppo.

Also, based on spoilers for 126, jiren seems to be above god level in general.

Spoilers for 126 didn't say anything about Jiren being above God level in general. Actually, the spoilers say that Jiren will fight Vegeta with Toppo.

Haha. Funny if you think toppo is going to be above someone who is above a god of destruction. But the likely hood of jiren being above god level is very likely. They are saving his true power for a reason.

I never said that Toppo will be stronger than Jiren. I said that the gap between them now could be small.

[ZombieVito]

Since when?

Shin said it on the manga.

And before someone complains about it, if something isn't contradicted then it can be used on the other medium since both of them come from the same source (Toriyama's draft).

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Toppo flat out said that anyone even with him is nothing to Jiren and Toppo as a god candidate has reached the realm of hakaishin, otherwise he wouldn't already be qualified to be one. That is the definition of candidate. There is no distinction between "god level" and "god candidate level".

Toppo didn't think he could beat goku regardless of his god of destruction power. So Toppo isn't even stronger than goku from the exhibition match and deemed him as someone that Jiren was needed for.

And a massively suppressed Jiren thrashed the same goku that "god of destruction toppo" didn't think he could beat.

The gap between Toppo and Jiren is for all intents and purposes, inconceivable, so much that Toppo whom is god of destruction level, states that he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell against Jiren.

I don't know where people are getting this idea that jirens full power is barely stronger than god of destruction level. But the root of the belief definitely comes from a desperate need for Beerus to be relevant for whatever reason, because the story definitely says nothing about only jirens full power being above god of destruction level.

Even a massively suppressed Jiren is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any god of destruction and that isn't an exaggeration.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Toppo flat out said that anyone even with him is nothing to Jiren and Toppo as a god candidate has reached the realm of hakaishin, otherwise he wouldn't already be qualified to be one. That is the definition of candidate. There is no distinction between "god level" and "god candidate level".

Toppo didn't think he could beat goku regardless of his god of destruction power. So Toppo isn't even stronger than goku from the exhibition match and deemed him as someone that Jiren was needed for.

And a massively suppressed Jiren thrashed the same goku that "god of destruction toppo" didn't think he could beat.

The gap between Toppo and Jiren is for all intents and purposes, inconceivable, so much that Toppo whom is god of destruction level, states that he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell against Jiren.

I don't know where people are getting this idea that jirens full power is barely stronger than god of destruction level. But the root of the belief definitely comes from a desperate need for Beerus to be relevant for whatever reason, because the story definitely says nothing about only jirens full power being above god of destruction level.

Even a massively suppressed Jiren is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any god of destruction and that isn't an exaggeration.

In fact, it is said in the synopsis that Toppo was already prepared for defeat when something strange happens to his body.

That is, this new power of his does not seem to be something that Toppo has always been able to access, but a hidden power or something. So, it is very difficult that your maximum power is just what he showed in the tournament display, it would not make sense so much highlight to that.

So it's possible that your level really is that of a GoD like Vermoud or Beerus, and that would not contradict the saying that Jiren is stronger than Toppo, after all Jiren could be stronger than a GoD

[Analytical Delusion]

How the heck is Vegeta fighting both Jiren and Toppo at the same time? Guessing it's either a typo, or U7 is in really dire straits and about to be eliminated (no mention of Goku in the spoiler).

[Noah]

Shin said it on the manga.

Kibitoshin had no idea who Beerus was until Elder Kaioshin explained, so interpreting his statement as Vegetto Blue being stronger than Beerus is a flawed logic. Which instant he ever had felt the full extent of Beerus power?

[ZombieVito]

Kibitoshin had no idea who Beerus was until Elder Kaioshin explained, so interpreting his statement as Vegetto Blue being stronger than Beerus is a flawed logic. Which instant he ever had felt the full extent of Beerus power?

Because the statement is useless if it's wrong and it's never contradicted by the way. There's not a single thing in both the anime and manga that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power. That's just head canon.

It's the same argument people had with Beerus saying Freeza > Base Goku.

[Bullza]

Didn't Toyotaro also say that he was not sure who was stronger between Super Saiyan Blue Vegito and Beerus when he was asked?

Which could also imply they must be pretty close.

[ZombieVito]

Didn't Toyotaro also say that he was not sure who was stronger between Super Saiyan Blue Vegito and Beerus when he was asked?

Which could also imply they must be pretty close.

You are right.

Shin does say that he might have surpassed Beerus, so I suppose it's up to personal choice if he's stronger or not.

He's definitely GoD tier though. That's a given, especially after Kefla.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

I feel like maybe Jiren, Ultra Instinct "Omen" Goku, and SS2 Kafla are all in their own tier above God of Destruction but below Angel. KKx20 Goku and SSB2 Vegeta might be closer to Beerus in power than Beerus is to UIO Goku.

Guess we'll have to wait and see how God of Destruction Toppo stacks up against SSB2 Vegeta and Jiren to determine that.

[Legion]

Toppo flat out said that anyone even with him is nothing to Jiren and Toppo as a god candidate has reached the realm of hakaishin, otherwise he wouldn't already be qualified to be one. That is the definition of candidate. There is no distinction between "god level" and "god candidate level".

Toppo didn't think he could beat goku regardless of his god of destruction power. So Toppo isn't even stronger than goku from the exhibition match and deemed him as someone that Jiren was needed for.

And a massively suppressed Jiren thrashed the same goku that "god of destruction toppo" didn't think he could beat.

The gap between Toppo and Jiren is for all intents and purposes, inconceivable, so much that Toppo whom is god of destruction level, states that he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell against Jiren.

I don't know where people are getting this idea that jirens full power is barely stronger than god of destruction level. But the root of the belief definitely comes from a desperate need for Beerus to be relevant for whatever reason, because the story definitely says nothing about only jirens full power being above god of destruction level.

Even a massively suppressed Jiren is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any god of destruction and that isn't an exaggeration.

This is just... nonsense

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

God of destruction Toppo doesn't think he could beat goku from the exhibition match and says that he's nothing to Jiren.

Jiren beats that same goku while massively suppressed. Nonsense would be saying that jirens full power is barely stronger than Belmod and weaker than Beerus for some reason. Especially when Jiren is stated to be above the hakaishin state, yet people for some reason to this day still claim that Jiren is barely stronger than Belmod and weaker than Beerus.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Well, the next episode is coming tomorrow night, so we'll see how things go. I'm predicting that Hakaishin Toppo will be a latter-half reveal in the episode, with the next one being where he really shows off his chops.

Given how it seems like Freeza's the one pushing him to the very edge, literally AND figuratively, the space tyrant might be the one to show us just how imposing Toppo will be.