Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[8000 Saiyan]

And that's fine, but I don't think it should cloud your judgement of their work. If it wasn't good to some extent, I don't think they'd be elevated to the status they've obtained in the last several years. I mean, they've overtaken Yugioh Abridged as the go-to top-quality abridged series on the internet, & a lot of their jokes & other material will age a lot better in the long-run than Yugioh Abridged's material. I mean, it's similar to Rick & Morty's popularity. The fandom can get obnoxious, but the show's been of a consistently good quality since day one for the most part (season 3 was a bit iffy in places, as far as I've heard).

TFS is hit and miss for me, but they're better than WeeklyTubeShow (who has a huge hypocrite working for them) and Gozar.

Why would you say that?

Because I have an opinion, that's why.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Um...you cant accuse people of being hypocrites and stuff with no explanation. That's a serious accusation and we need context to understand you, even if its an opinion.

[8000 Saiyan]

Um...you cant accuse people of being hypocrites and stuff with no explanation. That's a serious accusation and we need context to understand you, even if its an opinion.

Here's why I think he's an hypocrite: He's a guy who hates the Ocean voices for being cartoony while doesn't mind the Funimation dub having cartoony voices.

Happy?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yes, I am. Not saying that in a smug tone BTW. I love Ocean too!

[TheQuazz]

The criticism of Ocean's voice cast being too "cartoony" never fails to amuse me a little bit.
The guys making such complaints are so used to hearing poor or unenthusiastic voice work in dubbed anime that whenever something of actual professional quality comes along (similar to that of cartoon-level voice acting) they dismiss it as childish and silly. Typical "anime" voice acting, like the trite Funimation used to put out, is just as childish and silly, only that the performances are almost objectively worse than "cartoon" voices.
Yeah sure, Vegeta's Ocean voice isn't realistic in the slightest, but neither is Sabat's! Sabat's is just way more forced, boring and underacted and has way less range because, news flash, he's not a great actor. Never was, and probably never will be, considering how long he's had to improve. Just one example, but it applies to many other Ocean vs Funi voices too (with Schemmel's Goku being the biggest exception).
Even if Funimation's actors somehow did manage to make their character's voices sound as realistic and natural as possible, why the hell would you want that? Dragon Ball, as well as almost any other popular anime, is just as outrageous and fantastic as something you'd see on western TV, just because it has a bit more of an edge to it doesn't mean that you should play the characters straight.

[8000 Saiyan]

The criticism of Ocean's voice cast being too "cartoony" never fails to amuse me a little bit.
The guys making such complaints are so used to hearing poor or unenthusiastic voice work in dubbed anime that whenever something of actual professional quality comes along (similar to that of cartoon-level voice acting) they dismiss it as childish and silly. Typical "anime" voice acting, like the trite Funimation used to put out, is just as childish and silly, only that the performances are almost objectively worse than "cartoon" voices.
Yeah sure, Vegeta's Ocean voice isn't realistic in the slightest, but neither is Sabat's! Sabat's is just way more forced, boring and underacted and has way less range because, news flash, he's not a great actor. Never was, and probably never will be, considering how long he's had to improve. Just one example, but it applies to many other Ocean vs Funi voices too (with Schemmel's Goku being the biggest exception).
Even if Funimation's actors somehow did manage to make their character's voices sound as realistic and natural as possible, why the hell would you want that? Dragon Ball, as well as almost any other popular anime, is just as outrageous and fantastic as something you'd see on western TV, just because it has a bit more of an edge to it doesn't mean that you should play the characters straight.

People tend to forget that even the Japanese version has its share of character voices: Shigeru Chiba as Pilaf, for example.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm really sorry for asking this question but what do you mean by "Character Voice" you mean a "Cartoony" voice? Because I agree with you.

[8000 Saiyan]

I'm really sorry for asking this question but what do you mean by "Character Voice" you mean a "Cartoony" voice? Because I agree with you.

Yup, that's what I mean.

I suppose this guy who I called hypocritical wouldn't mind a dub with Rob Paulsen, Tom Kenny, Jim Cummings, Frank Welker, John DiMaggio and Kevin Michael Richardson if they did cartoony voices because they're American.

[Robo4900]

People tend to forget that even the Japanese version has its share of character voices: Shigeru Chiba as Pilaf, for example.

And Goku, and Kuririn, and Baba... I could go on.

Thing is, Dragon Ball is a cartoon. It just so happens to be a Japanese cartoon. When it started out, it was a straight-up comedy, and to this day, it keeps a heavy dose of comedy.
Saying the voices in the Ocean dub are cartoony is a valid point to raise, but I'd say it's a point in their favour; Ocean embracing the silliness of Dragon Ball, and taking a more energetic approach in voicing the characters has always felt a lot closer to how it was done in Japanese to me. I've always thought Funimation were far too reserved and serious.

'Course, despite my opinion that Funi are generally too reserved and serious, they have their share of cartoony voices. In fact, Sean Schemmel's Kaio is a lot more cartoony and goofy than Don Brown's, same for his Goku vs Ian Corlett's and Kirby Morrow's approaches.

-

Latest update on Ocean Kai: Marni Shulman says the amount of time this is taking is normal, and everything is on track.

[eledoremassis02]

Latest update on Ocean Kai: Marni Shulman says the amount of time this is taking is normal, and everything is on track.

Thats some great news! Given the lack of Anime on Canadian TV I hope this will really strike a cord!

[TheQuazz]

It's great to hear from Ms. Shulman again! I really, really hope nothing goes wrong...
The Ocean dub of Kai has built up such a legendary status that I still can't believe there's a chance of it getting to air!

[Attitudefan]

Nearly a decade later, and we may finally see it. Neat! Thanks for the hard work by those who got this ball rolling!

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Well that was a rather optimistic response. Its great to hear everything is on track so far, thats the best she could honestly tell us at this point. Now, if this dub airs all we need to do is spread the word so it performs well so Ocean can pick up where they left off with The Final Chapters. Thankfully having lived in Canada I have friends over there so I can help out with that part.

[Robo4900]

Thats some great news! Given the lack of Anime on Canadian TV I hope this will really strike a cord!

I hope so.
Dragon Ball seems to generally do pretty well in these kinds of situations, so it very well might.

It's great to hear from Ms. Shulman again! I really, really hope nothing goes wrong...
The Ocean dub of Kai has built up such a legendary status that I still can't believe there's a chance of it getting to air!

I think it's Mrs. Shulman, actually. But, indeed! She seems rather optimistic about it, so this is good!
I'm so stoked that Ocean Kai is finally coming. I'm so excited to enjoy Dragon Ball in what will always be the right way for me -- the Ocean voices.
The Funimation cast is full of talented people, all of them highly enthusiastic about the show, and the Japanese cast have always been amazing, and that's almost certainly the best way to enjoy it, but for me, the Ocean cast is just right in a way the other casts aren't, and I'm so happy we're gonna get to see their latest crack at it.

Nearly a decade later, and we may finally see it. Neat! Thanks for the hard work by those who got this ball rolling!

There are a lot of people who got the ball rolling.
Lee Tockar, Brian Drummond, Kirby Morrow, Saffron Henderson, Trevor Devall, and Scott McNeil talking about it was quintessential, ToonBarn sending that initial tweet out to Marni Shulman was very important, everyone who helped along in that Twitter discussion was a big help... Ultimately, while I think Marni Shulman is probably the MVP of this finally happening, there are a lot of people who made this possible, all of whom deserve a round of applause.

Well that was a rather optimistic response. Its great to hear everything is on track so far, thats the best she could honestly tell us at this point. Now, if this dub airs all we need to do is spread the word so it performs well so Ocean can pick up where they left off with The Final Chapters. Thankfully having lived in Canada I have friends over there so I can help out with that part.

Yes, absolutely!
I'm thinking of starting up a Discord server or something for people to do some (Probably text-based) chatting for a simulwatch, if people are interested. Dunno if it'll help much for the ratings, but who knows. Might help word get around, at least. I know a lot of people like doing stuff like that, so who knows, perhaps some people who were initially on the fence might be brought around on it for that, if enough interest can be drummed up.

[8000 Saiyan]

People tend to forget that even the Japanese version has its share of character voices: Shigeru Chiba as Pilaf, for example.

And Goku, and Kuririn, and Baba... I could go on.

Thing is, Dragon Ball is a cartoon. It just so happens to be a Japanese cartoon. When it started out, it was a straight-up comedy, and to this day, it keeps a heavy dose of comedy.
Saying the voices in the Ocean dub are cartoony is a valid point to raise, but I'd say it's a point in their favour; Ocean embracing the silliness of Dragon Ball, and taking a more energetic approach in voicing the characters has always felt a lot closer to how it was done in Japanese to me. I've always thought Funimation were far too reserved and serious.

'Course, despite my opinion that Funi are generally too reserved and serious, they have their share of cartoony voices. In fact, Sean Schemmel's Kaio is a lot more cartoony and goofy than Don Brown's, same for his Goku vs Ian Corlett's and Kirby Morrow's approaches.

Latest update on Ocean Kai: Marni Shulman says the amount of time this is taking is normal, and everything is on track.

Yeah, and even Takeshi Aono's King Piccolo is a character voice. I doubt that he sounded like that in real life. This is why I can't take some fans of Funimation's dub seriously. People tend to say Ocean fans are elitist, but Funimation fans can be elitist as well.

[TheGreatness25]

I gotta go the other way with this. Even if their voices are "cartoony" -- a criticism that I don't get -- they are a lot more natural-sounding than Funimation's. I feel like nearly every Funimation voice is forced, even to this day. Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo just never sound legitimate. Goku sounds like he's faking excitement, while Vegeta and Piccolo sound like children trying to make their voices as deep as possible to try to pass as adults on the phone. The irony is that Goku sounds mostly like Schemmel, and still sounds forced. Meanwhile, in the Ocean camp, their portrayals mostly sound fine. There are terrible performances, don't get me wrong. I find Babidi, Majin Boo, the later Muten Roshi, and some others to sound forced. But overall, they sound pretty natural. And this might get hate, but I find Vegeta and Piccolo in TFS to sound less forced than Funimation's version. It's crazy because they're imitating Funimation, but they don't sound so forced.

I find people who criticize the Ocean version got their great experience with it from 3 minute clips on YouTube. That's definitely not a good way to develop an opinion on it, especially after being used to the Funimation voices for so long. Furthermore, Funimation has a lot of opportunities to lift great sound quality, a luxury that Ocean doesn't have.

I don't know, I love the Ocean version. It's plagued by exactly the same issues as Funimation in terms of script and music, but I enjoy that version so much. It's hard to figure out which I like more, but I know that there are pros and cons to each version.

[Scsigs]

I gotta go the other way with this. Even if their voices are "cartoony" -- a criticism that I don't get -- they are a lot more natural-sounding than Funimation's. I feel like nearly every Funimation voice is forced, even to this day. Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo just never sound legitimate. Goku sounds like he's faking excitement, while Vegeta and Piccolo sound like children trying to make their voices as deep as possible to try to pass as adults on the phone. The irony is that Goku sounds mostly like Schemmel, and still sounds forced. Meanwhile, in the Ocean camp, their portrayals mostly sound fine. There are terrible performances, don't get me wrong. I find Babidi, Majin Boo, the later Muten Roshi, and some others to sound forced. But overall, they sound pretty natural. And this might get hate, but I find Vegeta and Piccolo in TFS to sound less forced than Funimation's version. It's crazy because they're imitating Funimation, but they don't sound so forced.

I find people who criticize the Ocean version got their great experience with it from 3 minute clips on YouTube. That's definitely not a good way to develop an opinion on it, especially after being used to the Funimation voices for so long. Furthermore, Funimation has a lot of opportunities to lift great sound quality, a luxury that Ocean doesn't have.

I don't know, I love the Ocean version. It's plagued by exactly the same issues as Funimation in terms of script and music, but I enjoy that version so much. It's hard to figure out which I like more, but I know that there are pros and cons to each version.

Well, I don't think any voice sounds forced in the FUNi dubs. Cartoony & sometimes over the top, yeah, for some of them, but the majority of them sound perfectly fine to me. You also have to remember that the mainstay VAs got their start in Dragon Ball, much like TFS did, in imitating the other cast, or being cast specifically to pass for them. Their acting was terrible at the beginning, but they've come a long way. And here's the thing, many of the Ocean VAs are actors who specialize in cartoony voices. The voices I found the most cartoony when watching clips of their dub online are Brian Drummond as Vegeta, Scott McNeil as Piccolo, Krillin, Kami, Elder Kai, Frieza (same goes for Linda Young, who's just a bad pick & Chris Ayres is a MUCH better pick than either of them), & Peter Kalemis as Goku. I've gone on record on this forum saying that I don't think I could take Drummond seriously as Vegeta in the later parts of the series because of how cartoonishly over-the-top & hammy his Vegeta is, which I'm pretty sure is why they cast him in the role, by the way. There's nothing wrong with the voices being cartoony, so I don't think that the FUNimation VAs are any less legitimate than them as the official voices of the characters. Yet Ocean elitists will STILL argue that the American VAs don't hold a candle to their Canadian counterparts.

As for TFS, I think that Lanipator's Vegeta & Piccolo sound more natural than Chris Sabat because the voices sound like more natural ones, but they ARE based on Sabat's voices for them. Lani manages to sound more relaxed in the roles. Sabat sounds more natural in his everyday speech as Vegeta (his screams are so/so) & his Piccolo is basically his Zorra voice at this point, so that voice has sounded more natural since 2010 when he modified it. TFS, though, have a few voices I find to sound a bit forced at times. KaiserNeko's Trunks, especially in History of Trunks where he's more high-pitched, usually never sounds like he's completely comfortable in the role like the others to me & AntFish as Mr. Satan sounds like he's trying WAY too hard to imitate Chris Rager (not helped AT ALL by the fact that his lines aren't a parody of the character, since they're too in-line with his canon characterization & the voice acting is JUST a little off from what it should be if they wanted an imitation, but for a parody, like Lani does).

In any case, I kind of find it hard to really compare the Ocean & FUNi VAs based on their Z dubs. The scripts were awful & the acting was mixed. FUNi had a lot of good voices, but bad acting, & Ocean has good acting & some good castings, but some voices I don't care for. If they could ever get an uncut DVD release out with the voice recordings of the Ocean actors mixed with the original Japanese music, I think we'd have a good base to do comparisons, but the Ocean dub's incomplete on several fronts (episode count, censorship, & whatever else) & who even knows if they have the original recordings anymore up there to use, or if most of the actors would come back to record any additional dialogue they may have, especially in Goku's case, since he had 3 VAs over the course of the show's run & the first 2 left over pay disputes with the studio, so it'd have to be Kirby Morrow, not only for consistency, but also for any recordings to add material rather than replace it.

[8000 Saiyan]

I gotta go the other way with this. Even if their voices are "cartoony" -- a criticism that I don't get -- they are a lot more natural-sounding than Funimation's. I feel like nearly every Funimation voice is forced, even to this day. Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo just never sound legitimate. Goku sounds like he's faking excitement, while Vegeta and Piccolo sound like children trying to make their voices as deep as possible to try to pass as adults on the phone. The irony is that Goku sounds mostly like Schemmel, and still sounds forced. Meanwhile, in the Ocean camp, their portrayals mostly sound fine. There are terrible performances, don't get me wrong. I find Babidi, Majin Boo, the later Muten Roshi, and some others to sound forced. But overall, they sound pretty natural. And this might get hate, but I find Vegeta and Piccolo in TFS to sound less forced than Funimation's version. It's crazy because they're imitating Funimation, but they don't sound so forced.

I find people who criticize the Ocean version got their great experience with it from 3 minute clips on YouTube. That's definitely not a good way to develop an opinion on it, especially after being used to the Funimation voices for so long. Furthermore, Funimation has a lot of opportunities to lift great sound quality, a luxury that Ocean doesn't have.

I don't know, I love the Ocean version. It's plagued by exactly the same issues as Funimation in terms of script and music, but I enjoy that version so much. It's hard to figure out which I like more, but I know that there are pros and cons to each version.

Well, I don't think any voice sounds forced in the FUNi dubs. Cartoony & sometimes over the top, yeah, for some of them, but the majority of them sound perfectly fine to me. You also have to remember that the mainstay VAs got their start in Dragon Ball, much like TFS did, in imitating the other cast, or being cast specifically to pass for them. Their acting was terrible at the beginning, but they've come a long way. And here's the thing, many of the Ocean VAs are actors who specialize in cartoony voices. The voices I found the most cartoony when watching clips of their dub online are Brian Drummond as Vegeta, Scott McNeil as Piccolo, Krillin, Kami, Elder Kai, Frieza (same goes for Linda Young, who's just a bad pick & Chris Ayres is a MUCH better pick than either of them), & Peter Kalemis as Goku. I've gone on record on this forum saying that I don't think I could take Drummond seriously as Vegeta in the later parts of the series because of how cartoonishly over-the-top & hammy his Vegeta is, which I'm pretty sure is why they cast him in the role, by the way. There's nothing wrong with the voices being cartoony, so I don't think that the FUNimation VAs are any less legitimate than them as the official voices of the characters. Yet Ocean elitists will STILL argue that the American VAs don't hold a candle to their Canadian counterparts.

As for TFS, I think that Lanipator's Vegeta & Piccolo sound more natural than Chris Sabat because the voices sound like more natural ones, but they ARE based on Sabat's voices for them. Lani manages to sound more relaxed in the roles. Sabat sounds more natural in his everyday speech as Vegeta (his screams are so/so) & his Piccolo is basically his Zorra voice at this point, so that voice has sounded more natural since 2010 when he modified it. TFS, though, have a few voices I find to sound a bit forced at times. KaiserNeko's Trunks, especially in History of Trunks where he's more high-pitched, usually never sounds like he's completely comfortable in the role like the others to me & AntFish as Mr. Satan sounds like he's trying WAY too hard to imitate Chris Rager (not helped AT ALL by the fact that his lines aren't a parody of the character, since they're too in-line with his canon characterization & the voice acting is JUST a little off from what it should be if they wanted an imitation, but for a parody, like Lani does).

In any case, I kind of find it hard to really compare the Ocean & FUNi VAs based on their Z dubs. The scripts were awful & the acting was mixed. FUNi had a lot of good voices, but bad acting, & Ocean has good acting & some good castings, but some voices I don't care for. If they could ever get an uncut DVD release out with the voice recordings of the Ocean actors mixed with the original Japanese music, I think we'd have a good base to do comparisons, but the Ocean dub's incomplete on several fronts (episode count, censorship, & whatever else) & who even knows if they have the original recordings anymore up there to use, or if most of the actors would come back to record any additional dialogue they may have, especially in Goku's case, since he had 3 VAs over the course of the show's run & the first 2 left over pay disputes with the studio, so it'd have to be Kirby Morrow, not only for consistency, but also for any recordings to add material rather than replace it.

Drummond's Vegeta is hammy, but he has his calmer moments.

[Attitudefan]

Drummond can sound "hammy," as you say; I honestly, still never question the legitimacy of what emotion he's conveying and to whom. It's over the top, but beleivable. Some of his best moments are in the Namek arc, when he was much more comfortable with the character. The nightmare scene with Bulma stands out in my mind. He sounds so thoroughly pissed and unreasonable but never forced. It's a fine line between cartoony and realistic. That was also 20 years ago. I can imagine his approach now would be just as good and even more believable than before, if the production and direction were proper for him to perform at optimum.

[Robo4900]

Does anyone happen to have the episode of Voiceprint where Kirby Morrow discusses Ocean Kai? I found a download of it on the Wayback Machine, but it looks like that part was edited out for some reason -- the "It's greaaaaat!!" is there, then there's a pretty clear fadeout while they're laughing, and it cuts to one of them saying "Well, what else can we talk about?"; the actual discussion of Ocean Kai is no-where to be heard(Go to about the 9:30 mark to hear this). Later on in the podcast, you can hear one of them say "We're probably already in trouble for that Dragon Ball thing earlier...", so this is clearly the right episode, but it's missing that critical piece.
So... Anyone have the full episode? I'm curious to here the full section, as the YouTube video cuts it off, and as a result, there's an unknown amount of missing content that's in neither the YouTube video, nor the version of the episode I downloaded.

the first 2 left over pay disputes with the studio, so it'd have to be Kirby Morrow, not only for consistency, but also for any recordings to add material rather than replace it.

Ian Corlett left for better-paying work, though he continued to voice Goku for some of season 2 under a different name.
Peter Kelamis left to focus on his standup career.

Drummond can sound "hammy," as you say; I honestly, still never question the legitimacy of what emotion he's conveying and to whom. It's over the top, but beleivable. Some of his best moments are in the Namek arc, when he was much more comfortable with the character. The nightmare scene with Bulma stands out in my mind. He sounds so thoroughly pissed and unreasonable but never forced. It's a fine line between cartoony and realistic. That was also 20 years ago. I can imagine his approach now would be just as good and even more believable than before, if the production and direction were proper for him to perform at optimum.

Agreed, definitely.
Drummond is Vegeta for me; I never really got the hype for Sabat's Vegeta. He gave a good performance in Kai, but I still prefer Drummond.