Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[pacz360]

[spoiler]My current list:

- Zenos
- Zenos guards
- Grand Priest
- Angels
- Jiren (FP)
- Stronger GoDs (Beerus, etc.) / SSB Vegetto
- Goku UI
- Merged Zamasu (LoS) / GoD Toppo (estimating)
- Weaker GoDs / Initial Goku UI / SSJ2 Kefla
- Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Blue KKx20 Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue KKx10 Goku / Aniraza
- Merged Zamasu (no LoS)
- SSJ Kefla / Super Saiyan Blue KK Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (final zenkai) / Toppo
- Super Saiyan Blue Goku / Golden Frieza
- Hit
- Dyspo (FP) / Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
- Ultimate Gohan / Android 17
- Base Kefla / Super Saiyan God Goku / Final Form Frieza / Base Goku Black
- Super Saiyan Berserk Controlled Kale / Future Zamasu
- U6 Namekkians / Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
- Super Saiyan 3 Goku / Obuni
- Stronger super saiyan 2s (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Cabba)
- Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
- Piccolo / Present Zamasu
- Android 18
- Super saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.)
- Base saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.) / Buff Buu
- Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
- Good Buu
- Final form Frost
- Wolves
- Krillin, Buff Roshi, etc.

I do think that Krillin, Roshi, etc. are comparable to the likes of Super Vegeta of the Android saga.[/spoiler]

Disagree on a couple
U6 nameks are stronger than mastered beserker kale and Ssjg god
Future zamasu as well should around Ssjg tier as well
Ssj Kefla was stated to equal the spirt bomb goku used on jiren
Other than that don't care for the rest

[Hugo Boss]

Let’s not extrapolate what Shin said, please. Since he never saw Beerus’ full power, he could only make a guess. Even if he didn’t give us the benefit of doubt, it would still be a baseless claim. Though, I don’t see the odds of comparing him with Vegetto Blue. Given that he had to be a bit more serious to beat Vegeta, who was practically on par with Zamas as Goku was, that could be a possibility.

[TheSaiyanGod]

[spoiler]My current list:

- Zenos
- Zenos guards
- Grand Priest
- Angels
- Jiren (FP)
- Stronger GoDs (Beerus, etc.) / SSB Vegetto
- Goku UI
- Merged Zamasu (LoS) / GoD Toppo (estimating)
- Weaker GoDs / Initial Goku UI / SSJ2 Kefla
- Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Blue KKx20 Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue KKx10 Goku / Aniraza
- Merged Zamasu (no LoS)
- SSJ Kefla / Super Saiyan Blue KK Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (final zenkai) / Toppo
- Super Saiyan Blue Goku / Golden Frieza
- Hit
- Dyspo (FP) / Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
- Ultimate Gohan / Android 17
- Base Kefla / Super Saiyan God Goku / Final Form Frieza / Base Goku Black
- Super Saiyan Berserk Controlled Kale / Future Zamasu
- U6 Namekkians / Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
- Super Saiyan 3 Goku / Obuni
- Stronger super saiyan 2s (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Cabba)
- Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
- Piccolo / Present Zamasu
- Android 18
- Super saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.)
- Base saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.) / Buff Buu
- Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
- Good Buu
- Final form Frost
- Wolves
- Krillin, Buff Roshi, etc.

I do think that Krillin, Roshi, etc. are comparable to the likes of Super Vegeta of the Android saga.[/spoiler]

Disagree on a couple
U6 nameks are stronger than mastered beserker kale and Ssjg god
Future zamasu as well should around Ssjg tier as well
Ssj Kefla was stated to equal the spirt bomb goku used on jiren
Other than that don't care for the rest

Goku SSB KK x20 after EP 109 is much more powerful.

Only Goku SSB was able to exchange blows against powered up Jiren (who used even more power than against UI Goku), so both Goku SSB KK x20 current and Vegeta with their new transformation, are much stronger than before.

It would be better to put them on a different level from Kefla SSJ and Genki Dama

[ZombieVito]

Actually what you're doing is head canon. You're making up what ifs and possibilities to deny what's stated in the actual story.

Exactly.

It's the same argument people tried when Beerus said Freeza > Base Goku.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So hows strong do you people think toppos true power is, now that a shot of him was leaked on him doing what a hakaishin is able to do? He seems to be an actual G.o.D now

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So hows strong do you people think toppos true power is, now that a shot of him was leaked on him doing what a hakaishin is able to do? He seems to be an actual G.o.D now

I think him ascending to this kind of power is interesting, as it seems to imply that the power of a Hakaishin isn't just your own pure strength, but something akin to the power of SSG that Goku and Vegeta tap into when using the SSG form and SSB.

A separate kind of power, one centered around destruction.

I'm curious to see if Toppo will truly ascend to that level, or if it's "merely a taste" of what a Hakaishin's true power could be. Besides Jiren, of course.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So hows strong do you people think toppos true power is, now that a shot of him was leaked on him doing what a hakaishin is able to do? He seems to be an actual G.o.D now

I think him ascending to this kind of power is interesting, as it seems to imply that the power of a Hakaishin isn't just your own pure strength, but something akin to the power of SSG that Goku and Vegeta tap into when using the SSG form and SSB.

A separate kind of power, one centered around destruction.

I'm curious to see if Toppo will truly ascend to that level, or if it's "merely a taste" of what a Hakaishin's true power could be. Besides Jiren, of course.

I'm interested too. I wouldnt mind toppo being at the actual level of G.o.D at all. Since the series is ending, it would be great for them to have to comfront a hakaishin again, and prove victorious this time around.

[Birusu16]

I'm gonna bring up the issue I always bring up when people try and use Shin's statement regarding Vegetto surpassing Beerus. He's never witnessed Beerus' full power. That's a blatant fact. He was constantly surprised at how powerful Beerus was during his fight with Goku. That wouldn't be the case if he knew full well how powerful Beerus truly was. That statement was made out of pure ignorance. That's not headcanon, speculation, or anything akin to it. It's factual.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I'm gonna bring up the issue I always bring up when people try and use Shin's statement regarding Vegetto surpassing Beerus. He's never witnessed Beerus' full power. That's a blatant fact. He was constantly surprised at how powerful Beerus was during his fight with Goku. That wouldn't be the case if he knew full well how powerful Beerus truly was. That statement was made out of pure ignorance. That's not headcanon, speculation, or anything akin to it. It's factual.

Doesnt matter honestly. Beerus full known power (before he went agains cssb vegeta) was only a bit higher than the gods form from goku and vegeta. Theres a reason that merged zamasu wasnt compared to beerus or any other god of destruction, Because he wasnt, despite the fact that neither goku and vegeta have felt a power as great as that (meaning that beerus known suppressed power is likely weaker than merged zamasu). What also supports beerus and vegito blue being on the same level is the fights they had (vegito vs merged zamasu, and beerus vs vegeta). vegito could toy around with merged zamasu, while beerus can one-shot a merged zamasu level being while being semi-serious. Its very logical to assume that vegito blue is at least at beerus level, especially with the insane multiplier of the potara.

[Green]

Toyotaro himself said he didn't know who was stronger between Vegetto and Beerus so there's not much room for debate here.

[Rally 07]

Toyotaro himself said he didn't know who was stronger between Vegetto and Beerus so there's not much room for debate here.

Right. People take Shin's statement hyper-literally.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Toyotaro himself said he didn't know who was stronger between Vegetto and Beerus so there's not much room for debate here.

Right. People take Shin's statement hyper-literally.

Shins statement can be taken to mean exactly what toyotaro said, which could mean that they are so close to each other that the winner is uncertain of.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Double post sorry (cant seem to edit)

I dont think almost anyone is debating whether vegito can beat beerus, they are debating whether vegito and beerus are on par with each other

[Rally 07]

Double post sorry (cant seem to edit)

I dont think almost anyone is debating whether vegito can beat beerus, they are debating whether vegito and beerus are on par with each other

Well Vegetto now could very well be on the level of suppressed Beerus at least. Same goes for Ultra Instinct Gokou, Kefla, and suppressed Jiren as well.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Alright, folks, episode's coming out in a few hours. Place your bets, now!

And remember that, no matter what........... I'll still get my 10% cut of the pool.

[ZombieVito]

Toyotaro himself said he didn't know who was stronger between Vegetto and Beerus so there's not much room for debate here.

This is exactly what Shin's statement means...

[Birusu16]

I'm gonna bring up the issue I always bring up when people try and use Shin's statement regarding Vegetto surpassing Beerus. He's never witnessed Beerus' full power. That's a blatant fact. He was constantly surprised at how powerful Beerus was during his fight with Goku. That wouldn't be the case if he knew full well how powerful Beerus truly was. That statement was made out of pure ignorance. That's not headcanon, speculation, or anything akin to it. It's factual.

Doesnt matter honestly. Beerus full known power (before he went agains cssb vegeta) was only a bit higher than the gods form from goku and vegeta. Theres a reason that merged zamasu wasnt compared to beerus or any other god of destruction, Because he wasnt, despite the fact that neither goku and vegeta have felt a power as great as that (meaning that beerus known suppressed power is likely weaker than merged zamasu). What also supports beerus and vegito blue being on the same level is the fights they had (vegito vs merged zamasu, and beerus vs vegeta). vegito could toy around with merged zamasu, while beerus can one-shot a merged zamasu level being while being semi-serious. Its very logical to assume that vegito blue is at least at beerus level, especially with the insane multiplier of the potara.

None of which is relevant to my argument as I never said I don't believe Vegetto isn't around Beerus' level of power. My argument pertains to using Shin's statement as proof, which it isn't because Shin has never known the full extent of Beerus' power and to say he does is flat out false because the series straight up tells us that he doesn't.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I'm gonna bring up the issue I always bring up when people try and use Shin's statement regarding Vegetto surpassing Beerus. He's never witnessed Beerus' full power. That's a blatant fact. He was constantly surprised at how powerful Beerus was during his fight with Goku. That wouldn't be the case if he knew full well how powerful Beerus truly was. That statement was made out of pure ignorance. That's not headcanon, speculation, or anything akin to it. It's factual.

Doesnt matter honestly. Beerus full known power (before he went agains cssb vegeta) was only a bit higher than the gods form from goku and vegeta. Theres a reason that merged zamasu wasnt compared to beerus or any other god of destruction, Because he wasnt, despite the fact that neither goku and vegeta have felt a power as great as that (meaning that beerus known suppressed power is likely weaker than merged zamasu). What also supports beerus and vegito blue being on the same level is the fights they had (vegito vs merged zamasu, and beerus vs vegeta). vegito could toy around with merged zamasu, while beerus can one-shot a merged zamasu level being while being semi-serious. Its very logical to assume that vegito blue is at least at beerus level, especially with the insane multiplier of the potara.

None of which is relevant to my argument as I never said I don't believe Vegetto isn't around Beerus' level of power. My argument pertains to using Shin's statement as proof, which it isn't because Shin has never known the full extent of Beerus' power and to say he does is flat out false because the series straight up tells us that he doesn't.

Yes, thats why i said that the statement doesnt matter.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Double post sorry (cant seem to edit)

I dont think almost anyone is debating whether vegito can beat beerus, they are debating whether vegito and beerus are on par with each other

Well Vegetto now could very well be on the level of suppressed Beerus at least. Same goes for Ultra Instinct Gokou, Kefla, and suppressed Jiren as well.

Vegito now would be above beerus, if vegito in the zamasu arc is comparable to beerus. Goku and vegeta had gone up in power so much that it isnt even funny. They have goku black level zenkais for no reason Now

[Black Hawk]

Alright, folks, episode's coming out in a few hours. Place your bets, now!

And remember that, no matter what........... I'll still get my 10% cut of the pool.

50 billion zeni on Hit coming out of nowhere and eliminating Jiren and Top with one strike each before saying "I was never truly eliminated. Now we're even." before flying off to his homeland of Universe 21, confirming Dragon Ball FighterZ as the next canon arc of Dragon Ball Super, written by Toriyama and confirmed by the very first interview he ever did back in 1812, leading in to Dragon Ball GT episode 65, which Toriyama wrote the year before he was born.

The worst joke ever made aside, for some reason, I'm having a hard time feeling excited at all for this episode. I have this strange gut feeling that this episode will be very lackluster and not interesting to me at all; I hope I'm wrong.